Daboll on what went right/wrong

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, ALLEN1QB said:

7-10 this year Miami wins the east Boom I said it.

Go pound sand

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I "get it" that the coaches have no obligation to share their innermost thoughts and plans with the press - and in fact shouldn't.

 

But there were some aspects of this interview that really troubled me.

 

The first was when he was asked if the trick plays were something he had to resort to because of how Pitt's D was playing them.  He said "no, we've been working on them since training camp and we thought that was the right call".  Especially for the backward pass, when the O has been failing to "sell" misdirection plays all game and failing to win and sustain blocks - WTF Daboll, why did you think that?  It seems like a serious judgement gap.

 

The second was when he was asked if he saw Allen finish the game with 51 passing attempts, does he think the offense needs to be more balanced? and he said "we try to do whatever we can do".  Again, he's under no obligation to share his self-criticism with the press, but I get the feeling that he honestly doesn't feel the need to re-consider his approach at all.  It seems like he's pass doesn't work, pass pass pass.  Rush gets 1 yd whups run game not working, Give Up.

 

At 9:45, Daboll was asked by Sal Capaccio about the 1 for 4 skunking in the RZ and why no shots to the endzone.  He said "at that point, we weren't interested in holding the ball too long.  We were trying to get it out of our hands and get it into their hands so they could catch and run.  The longer you have to let a play develop and let a receiver get downfield, the more the pass rush is coming so we were trying to balance that".  I need to look at the sets they were using in or near the RZ, but to @BADOLBILZ point, this is a total head-scratcher on why Daboll would feel he should persist with the 4 and 5 WR sets instead of swapping to a (1,1) or (0,2) set and having extra blockers in there to give plays time to develop. 

 

The most troubling to me was 4:25 where he was asked about the Steelers being able to bring pressure with 3 or 4 and he said "give credit to the Steelers, the last couple years have kind of been like that against this team, give credit to the Steelers, give credit to Coach Butler and to the players that they've got, they're hard to deal with". 

 

It basically sounded as though he was conceding that we just don't have either the personnel OR the plan to deal with a team that can pressure with 3 or 4 guys, which is a terrible thing to feel. 

Now, that said - maybe I will watch the All-22 and feel that there was a plan that was better than it looked, and Josh wasn't making the right reads or choices.  Maybe that's what Josh meant post-game when he said he needed to take the short stuff early and maybe things would have been different.  In which case maybe Daboll needs to be down on the sidelines where he can thump Josh over the head with a Microsoft Surface when he comes off the field and yell "take the mother*****ing checkdown you mother*****ing idiot" if that's what it takes.

 

And also, dealing with effectively a new team each season, I suppose there is going to be an adjustment period where the coaches think the Jimmies and Joes can handle plan X and it turns out they can't - but why not adjust then?

 

[scuba guy]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I "get it" that the coaches have no obligation to share their innermost thoughts and plans with the press - and in fact shouldn't.

 

But there were some aspects of this interview that really troubled me.

 

The first was when he was asked if the trick plays were something he had to resort to because of how Pitt's D was playing them.  He said "no, we've been working on them since training camp and we thought that was the right call".  Especially for the backward pass, when the O has been failing to "sell" misdirection plays all game and failing to win and sustain blocks - WTF Daboll, why did you think that?

 

The second was when he was asked if he saw Allen finish the game with 51 passing attempts, does he think the offense needs to be more balanced? and he said "we try to do whatever we can do".  Again, he's under no obligation to share his self-criticism with the press, but I get the feeling that he honestly doesn't feel the need to re-consider his approach at all.

 

At 9:45, Daboll was asked by Sal Capaccio about the 1 for 4 skunking in the RZ and why no shots to the endzone.  He said "at that point, we weren't interested in holding the ball too long.  We were trying to get it out of our hands and get it into their hands so they could catch and run.  The longer you have to let a play develop and let a receiver get downfield, the more the pass rush is coming so we were trying to balance that".  I need to look at the sets they were using in or near the RZ, but to @BADOLBILZ point, this is a total head-scratcher on why Daboll would feel he should persist with the 4 and 5 WR sets instead of swapping to a (1,1) or (0,2) set and having extra blockers in there to give plays time to develop. 

 

The most troubling to me was 4:25 where he was asked about the Steelers being able to bring pressure with 3 or 4 and he said "give credit to the Steelers, the last couple years have kind of been like that against this team, give credit to the Steelers, give credit to Coach Butler and to the players that they've got, they're hard to deal with". 

 

It basically sounded as though he was conceding that we just don't have either the personnel OR the plan to deal with a team that can pressure with 3 or 4 guys, which is a terrible thing to feel.  Now, that said - maybe I will watch the All-22 and feel that there was a plan that was better than it looked, and Josh wasn't making the right reads or choices.  In which case maybe Daboll needs to be down on the sidelines where he can thump Josh over the head with a Microsoft Surface and yell "take the mother*****ing checkdown you mother*****ing idiot" or whatever it takes.

 

Wow hap your not mad today at all our you

[nucci]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Would hate to run into him in a dark alley.

do you frequent dark alleys?

[Success]

For 2 decades, I was longing for an offense that would have a more wide open air attack & mix it up w/ trick plays and innovative schemes.

 

Now, that seems to be all we do.  There is a happy medium between the drought years and our current O.  We have got to establish a legit running game.  We don't have the best RB's in the league, but that is no excuse:  this team has to run more.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

Wow hap your not mad today at all our you

 

No, not at all, why do you ask?  Seriously.  I'm frustrated with what I heard in Daboll's presser, but I acknowledge that 1) I don't have all the info about the game yet and 2) Daboll is under no obligation to share his plans and self-scouting with the press.

 

The part about the Microsoft surface is a riff on a Daboll story Allen told about a training camp play his rookie season where he was supposed to check down to the RB in the flat, but he threw to the corner of the EZ instead and "it didn't go too well".  He said Daboll immediately started screaming in his helmet and you can't control the volume and it hurts.  Said he jogged to the sideline and took off his helmet and there was Daboll, red in the face and still yelling.  Said after about 5 minutes Daboll wound down and walked away, then he thought about it some more and came back and started yelling again.

 

The interviewer asked "what did you say?" and Allen said "nothing to say.  Just take the checkdown next time".  I have the impression that Josh can be hard-headed sometimes and has a definite "go for the gusto" "no risk it, no bisquit" "mama didn't raise no B word" mentality and needs a lot to get through to him.  Sort of like the joke about the especially-reliable mule who was trained with loving kindness.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

The first was when he was asked if the trick plays were something he had to resort to because of how Pitt's D was playing them.  He said "no, we've been working on them since training camp and we thought that was the right call". 

 

Should have tried:

[uninja]

43 minutes ago, FireChans said:

All contenders need their QB to play great to win against other playoff teams.

 

We go as far as Josh goes. Just like KC goes as far as Mahomes goes. Just like Tampa was trash until they got Brady.

 

Did you see how Green Bay fared when Rodgers struggled?

 

Yeah, but really great teams are able to overcome a bad QB day, issues with the gameplan or add a wrinkle to force a defense to adjust. Pittsburgh kept playing the same D all game, daring us to prove we could beat it and we just refused to try anything different. The chunk plays were not there, the line wasn't holding long enough to let routes develop and the coverage too deep to provide enough soft spots in the zone to led Allen drop in passes. However those short passes to Beasley between the numbers were always there for an easy 4-6 yards. I don't know why we didn't just play small ball to force the coverage closer to the LOS and maybe force them into more man concepts to open up deeper shots.

 

 

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, PolishDave said:

Tale of 2 offensive coordinators.

 

Greg Roman - Lopsided running focus

Brian Daboll - Lopsided passing focus

 

If I have to err on one side or the other, I'll take Daboll's aggressiveness every time.    Even in a loss to Pittsburgh.

 

It is so much more fun watching an offense that is always looking for the homerun play - even on fourth and 8.     

 

And when they are clicking.....man it is fun!

 

If they just get Josh to dial it back a hair until things are obviously going in their favor.   Then step on the gas.

Allen is a rhythm passer.  Get him easy completions early.  Open up after a few.  

[scuba guy]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, not at all, why do you ask?  Seriously.  I'm a tad frustrated with what I heard in Daboll's presser, but I acknowledge that 1) I don't have all the info yet and 2) Daboll is under no obligation to share his plans and self-scouting with the press.

 

The part about the Microsoft surface is a riff on a Daboll story Allen told about a training camp play his rookie season where he was supposed to check down to the RB in the flat, but he threw to the corner of the EZ and "it didn't go too well".  He said Daboll immediately started screaming in his helmet and you can't control the volume and it hurts.  Said he jogged to the sideline and took off his helmet and there was Daboll, red in the face and still yelling.  Said after about 5 minutes Daboll wound down and walked away, then he thought about it some more and came back and started yelling again.

 

The interviewer asked "what did you say?" and Allen said "nothing to say.  Just take the checkdown next time".  I have the impression that Josh can be hard-headed sometimes and needs a lot to get through to him.  Sort of like the joke about the especially-reliable mule who was trained with loving kindness.

Nope get it everyone thinks there the press should get all the info out of the coaches.  But they are just not going to give a tell out at all.

 

Eating lunch know 

The the uaw guys are next to my at the diner saying we should have done this.

 

I hate arm chair coaches.

 

I day I will say if you were that good as a coach why aren't you there yourself.

 

How do I post pics of the game it always says to big of a file on my phone.

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

Yeah, but really great teams are able to overcome a bad QB day, issues with the gameplan or add a wrinkle to force a defense to adjust. Pittsburgh kept playing the same D all game, daring us to prove we could beat it and we just refused to try anything different. The chunk plays were not there, the line wasn't holding long enough to let routes develop and the coverage too deep to provide enough soft spots in the zone to led Allen drop in passes. However those short passes to Beasley between the numbers were always there for an easy 4-6 yards. I don't know why we didn't just play small ball to force the coverage closer to the LOS and maybe force them into more man concepts to open up deeper shots.

 

 

The Bills are not a great team. 
 

We are a very good team with a great QB. Good enough to win a Super Bowl when the QB plays well.

 

Talent-wise, we don’t have one of those historic rosters who can carry a bad QB through the playoffs. Those come only a few times a decade.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

When people say get the ball to Knox more or have a better run game. Its not to say don't keep doing what we do best. Spreading the ball around helps open up all positions IMO.

 

Do you think the answer might be somewhere in the middle?

Allen already spreads the ball around and gets everyone involved. 

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Would hate to run into him in a dark alley.

 

na, he'd prob run backwards.  

19 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Allen is a rhythm passer.  Get him easy completions early.  Open up after a few.  

 

I like this idea, but I think when Allen is over-hyped, like yesterday, start with the run, calm Allen down, set the rhythms, hit deep stuff.  

[SCBills]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The Bills are not a great team. 
 

We are a very good team with a great QB. Good enough to win a Super Bowl when the QB plays well.

 

Talent-wise, we don’t have one of those historic rosters who can carry a bad QB through the playoffs. Those come only a few times a decade.

 

We're the Chiefs with better depth, minus Kelce and Jones.  

 

Take that however anyone wants, but until we find our running mate for Diggs on offense and game-wrecker on defense, they will be a step ahead.  

 

Watch any game this weekend where the team had a stud on the DL.  Watch just how impactful that player usually is.  TJ Watt/Cam Heyward in our game.  Chandler Jones for Arizona.  Maxx Crosby last night for the Raiders.  The list goes on.. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by SCBills

[buffalo2218]

Daboll reminds me a lot of Kevin Gilbride. Where's Buddy Ryan when you need him?

[Patrick Duffy]

Not sure, but I wasn't too crazy about the way Daboll called that game. Hope to see not only better play calling, but also better execution and would like to see more of the ground game.

 

 

[RobbRiddick]

On the plus side there was a funny as ***** call in to sal's show yesterday where a nutcase told a story about Lou saban threatening to bench Kemp and that mcd should do the same to Allen if he hasn't improved by halftime of the dolphins game. It was a real treat

[Mat68]

16 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

na, he'd prob run backwards.  

 

I like this idea, but I think when Allen is over-hyped, like yesterday, start with the run, calm Allen down, set the rhythms, hit deep stuff.  

Simple 21 personal.  Easy throw to Knox over the middle, wr screen, swing pass to rb.  Tap pass jet sweep.  Mix in a few runs and now your around the 50.  He is a shooter.  Wants he is hot do whatever ya want. Imo its on Daboll to get him going.  

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

I don't think it is as close to the Patriots as you do.

 

Patriots got the ball out quickly with rhythm often times to screens, slants and tight ends in the flats.   

 

Brady wasn't looking for a home run on every play.    He was moving chains with short and intermediate passes.   The Bills focus on intermediate and home runs.

 

It wasn't normal for the Patriots to hold the ball in the pocket.   It was normal to get rid of it immediately and focus on run after catch.   The Bills offense reminds me more of the Warner led St. Louis team - except without Marshall Faulk.

 

 

Is that the Bills' focus, or the difference in QB personalities/talent?

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there have been plenty of short/intermediate plays called that Josh himself turned into home run attempts.

 

It is the same offense and playbook Daboll had when he was in New England. It's just a matter of which parts he is using here, and how the players are executing it differently. We absolutely have those same running plays and short yardage pass plays. We've used them before. We just didnt on Sunday. Which is what makes it even more frustrating.

[Figster]

1 hour ago, scuba guy said:

Wow hap your not mad today at all our you

Good observations IMO.