Watching the game again this game is all on Daboll

[MAJBobby]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

I don’t know about draft busts per se, but the talent so far hasn’t been enough to beat elite teams in the playoffs. We are still  accumulating pieces. We likely need better linemen to win a super bowl. It’s just sad that we have to go to such great lengths while average Joe’s like Dilfer have a ring. 

Really?  Did we not make a Run into the AFCCG last year, after a non playoff year before that?  Sorry you are not making any sense here.

[Milanos Milano]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Daboll reports to McD. The buck stops at the head coach.  This loss and the KC loss is all on McDermott.  He is the Achilles heel of this team.  I just feel this is Tampa Bay with Dungy repeating itself.  I will say, Mcd does a good job of rallying his team and righting the ship.  He gets the team to respond, that may be his best coaching quality.  Hopefully he will learn from this and force Daboll into more balance.    

100% all of this. Even if his elite talented players aren’t executing he needs to coach that up. There is no reason why elite talent can’t beat less talented rosters. We either have enough talent or we don’t. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Can we name the Draft busts that Beane has drafted?  

 

I know I can point to alot of UFA mistakes (but protects the team with very good UFA contracts in case of those misses)

Bust is an overstatement and I am always careful to use that word too soon.  

However I think it is more fair to say Oliver, Ford, Epenesa, and Edmunds have all underperformed their draft status.  Yes they are all starters and yes Edmunds for a brief 8 or 10 game stretch played like a ProBowler.  But for the most part these high draft picks have been at best average to poor.  I am still a big fan of Knox (more so than most on this board) but to be fair he has been at best inconsistent too.

He has had some really nice picks too in Gabe Davis and the jury is still out on Moss/Singletary.  

Edited September 13, 2021 by Ethan in Portland

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Really?  Did we not make a Run into the AFCCG last year, after a non playoff year before that?  Sorry you are not making any sense here.

That isn’t good enough. I don’t settle for participation trophies. 

If we can’t win a super bowl this year. We have to do further investigation into why. If it’s a lack of talent, then we need to draft and sign better players. If it’s play calling ills, the. McDermott needs to address it. No more excuses, just win a super bowl. 

[BBills88]

40 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  If you rewatch the game(if you can stomach  it) the Steelers only rushed 4 and did very little “Blitzburgh” stuff.  
  They where begging the Bills to take the ball out of Josh’s hands and run it the Bills didn’t….that’s 4 games in row now teams are telling you we are not letting Allen beat us.
  Daboll literally seems to have no confidence in our ability to run the ball or he truely is a one trick pony pass every down and pray we make the end zone coordinator.
  The truth is this is very fixable it was one game but it is a larger problem that the league has figured out Daboll and now he must adjust we shall see if he does.  

Dabol is the opposite of the Greg Roman. 

Draw up some run plays with and without a the fullback. Stop running JA17, teams are going to try and hurt him on those runs.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Bust is an overstatement and I am always careful to use that word too soon.  

However I think it is more fair to say Oliver, Ford, Epenesa, and Edmunds have all underperformed their draft status.  Yes they are all starters and yes Edmunds for a brief 8 or 10 game stretch played like a ProBowler.  But for the most part these high draft picks have been at best average to poor.  I am still a big fan of Knox (more so than most on this board) but to be fair he has been at best inconsistent too.

He has had some really nice picks too in Gabe Davis and the jury is still out on Moss/Singletary.  

 

So a First round pick - Oliver who PLAYED GREAT yesterday.

Another 1st Edmunds - Also had a very good to great game

 

And a couple of 2nd rounders.  So yeah if I am hitting on 50% or greater on my draft picks (people should really stop caring about where they were picked) then I am doing my Job as a GM.  Example Edmunds and Milano (does it matter that one was a 1st and one was a 5th) when combined they outplay those two pick positions?

[Johnnycage46]

3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

That isn’t good enough. I don’t settle for participation trophies. 

If we can’t win a super bowl this year. We have to do further investigation into why. If it’s a lack of talent, then we need to draft and sign better players. If it’s play calling ills, the. McDermott needs to address it. No more excuses, just win a super bowl. 

 

But, it was one game.  Only 2 teams have ever won every game in the regular season.  It was one game.  If yesterday's performance repeats for the next several games then it might be time to worry.  But, similarly, if we beat the stuffing out of the Steelers yesterday it wouldn't mean we were going to the Super Bowl.  Its just one game in a long (and now even longer) season.

[TheBrownBear]

20 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

No, I just want accountability. I want to win super bowls. I’m tired of being embarrassed as a Bills fan. I love my Bills and it hurts to know we haven’t sniffed a super bowl for various reasons. If we can’t beat KC and other elite teams then we need better talent or better talent evaluators or coaches. No more being happy to just have a team in Buffalo. 

WTH are you talking about dude?  Have you been asleep at the wheel for the past three years?  This team is ascending (6-10, 10-6, 13-3) and just last year finally reached legit playoff contender status.  They have a young head coach and a very young QB.  Yes, yesterday sucked.  Daboll clearly designed an ineffective game plan and our offense never found their footing.  We were the better team.  We outgained them by 120 yards.  We just coached/played a dumb game at critical moments.  If we look like this at week 7, then we can start talking about the team having real problems.  As for now, I'll continue to contend that the future is insanely bright for this team.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

So a First round pick - Oliver who PLAYED GREAT yesterday.

Another 1st Edmunds - Also had a very good to great game

 

And a couple of 2nd rounders.  So yeah if I am hitting on 50% or greater on my draft picks (people should really stop caring about where they were picked) then I am doing my Job as a GM.  Example Edmunds and Milano (does it matter that one was a 1st and one was a 5th) when combined they outplay those two pick positions?

Edmunds played better but hardly great. He had one nice run stuff a batted pass and some other routine plays.  He was out of position on the deep pass to the TE in the middle of the field.  

Oliver played well and though I hated the pick at the time I have consistently said it takes time for a DT to develop.  He has to show more this year.  

Yes 50% is good.  Hardly makes Beane to be anything but an average to above average GM.  He's not he genus some on this board profess him to be.  

As for draft position - it matters somewhat.  They traded up to get Edmunds wasting picks in the process. They may have gotten similar production with a second round pick, paid him less, and kept the pick they traded away.  Getting value for Milano (not a Beane pick) and Davis is great.   

[Roundybout]

36 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

It is one game, but I’m tired of giving McD and Beane easy passes. We couldn’t beat Tennessee or KC either. If they fail to do it again this year, then we need to seriously rethink strategy or talent evaluations, because Mahomes is going to be here for a while. 

 

We had beaten Tennessee three or four seasons in a row, including twice with McD. It was a Tuesday night game missing a couple starters like White on a wacky schedule in the rain. Titans just got slapped around by the Cards, so let's see how the season shakes out. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by BillsEnthusiast

[ProcessYaDigg]

51 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  

FACTS!!!  Every time he ran the ball, I was screaming at the TV.  I don't want him getting hurt and he still doesn't control the ball well when running.  We have Motor, let him run more.  He was gashing their defense yesterday.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  If you rewatch the game(if you can stomach  it) the Steelers only rushed 4 and did very little “Blitzburgh” stuff.  
  They where begging the Bills to take the ball out of Josh’s hands and run it the Bills didn’t….that’s 4 games in row now teams are telling you we are not letting Allen beat us.
  Daboll literally seems to have no confidence in our ability to run the ball or he truely is a one trick pony pass every down and pray we make the end zone coordinator.
  The truth is this is very fixable it was one game but it is a larger problem that the league has figured out Daboll and now he must adjust we shall see if he does.  

 

It is scary how similar it was to the AFCCG.

[Nuncha]

59 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  

The lack of a balanced attack finally caught up to them....

[ProcessYaDigg]

21 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

That isn’t good enough. I don’t settle for participation trophies. 

If we can’t win a super bowl this year. We have to do further investigation into why. If it’s a lack of talent, then we need to draft and sign better players. If it’s play calling ills, the. McDermott needs to address it. No more excuses, just win a super bowl. 

Dude, relax.  it's the first game of the season.  Every year is different.  Every team is different.  It takes time to establish your identity.  Last year, we didn't have everything together until after that AZ game.  But they found who they were and we were unstoppable.  Just be patient.  McD always get this figured out.  You give up hope way too easily.

[Fan in Chicago]

5 minutes ago, ProcessYaDigg said:

Dude, relax.  it's the first game of the season.  Every year is different.  Every team is different.  It takes time to establish your identity.  Last year, we didn't have everything together until after that AZ game.  But they found who they were and we were unstoppable.  Just be patient.  McD always get this figured out.  You give up hope way too easily.

Normally that refrain makes sense. But think about the last four games the Bills have played. Have you, at any point during those games, thought that they were unstoppable? Did yesterday's game give you confidence that McD, Daboll have a plan to counter what we saw against the Chiefs, Colts?

This is much more than a single game. It is a pattern of poor O execution against stout front 4s. It is poor scheming and adjusting on the coordinator's parts. Its McD not doing enough to make his coordinators change their stubborn habits 

[Thunderstruck]

I disagree- this was not ALL on Daboll. It was a (losing) team effort.

 

- Many questionable play calls, at both the OC and HC level

- Josh simply ignored (or never saw) many wide open receivers on the underneath routes in favor of throwing deep into double or triple coverage several times. No excuse for this.

- Levi Wallace. No explanation needed here.

- Special teams- that blocked punt is the difference in the game. No excuse for that guy coming right up the gut like that.

- I will mention the refs here. I'm not a big fan of blaming officiating but the call against Tre was very questionable in my mind and overturned a pivotal INT. The PI call on the deep ball was awful and should never have been called by the official who was nowhere near the play (it was not called by the guy right next to it)

- D-LIne... we invested a lot into these guys. They did a very good job against the run, but they did not get the pressure that we needed against Roehlisberger. He had way too much time to throw on a lot of plays. You can tell that he HATES getting hit, and I think a few good hits on him would have really changed the complexion of the game. If they can't get pressure against 2 rookies and a 2nd year player on the Steelers O-Line, what gives us reason to think they will be more successful in future games? I hope they are, but I am a little worried after this performance.

- O-Line: way too much pressure on Josh

 

I'm sure I am overlooking some other things as well, but let's not pretend this was ALL about Daboll.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Thunderstruck

[GunnerBill]

Daboll did not have a good day. But the loss is primarily on the oline. Not a lot of plays that work when three rushers are free pretty much off the ball. 

 

Interesting looking at discussion forums of other teams today how many fans think their OC sucks. Panthers fans want Joe Brady fired, Packers want Hackett out, Giants want rid of Garrett, Colts fans already moaning about their new guy. 

[Murdox]

The sky is not falling, but the loss is pretty brutal.  Home and against a potential playoff team in your conference that you need to beat.  Next week will be the main indicator, however, of what direction we are going.  If the offense sputters again against the division rival, we are more likely looking at a long season (and not just because it's 17 games).

[Charles Romes]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

To me it looked like they went into the game expecting Man coverage, and got alot of Zone.

 

the Adjustment should have been Hand the Ball off and throw short.  They got the throw short part adjusted, just never got the hand the ball off part.

 

I ALSO WANT ALL designed runs from Allen GONE and out of this offense.  If he isnt doing it organically on a pass, the ONLY time I want these Designed runs are 3rd and 4th and Short and in the endzone with a pass option to the rollout.  or like a QB Draw.  

Josh was obviously frazzled and a different guy playing in front of a full crowd for the first time in two years. I think Daboll felt he needed to incorporate runs by Josh in order to get Josh into the game and switch him from overthinking mode into react mode. It seemed to work for the one drive before the half.  Daboll did this a lot in 2019 when Josh came out too amped-up. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Charles Romes

[Milanos Milano]

For all the it’s just 1 game crowd. We are now a game behind the Chiefs for home field advantage through the playoffs. Which means we have to hope someone beats them and we win head to head at arrowhead. Every single game matters when you have a great team like the Chiefs in your conference. We can’t go to the super bowl unless we build a team to beat them. Watching yesterday’s game didn’t exactly instill confidence that we made big enough strides to do that.