Milanos Milano Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 I want to branch this off from the Bills offense because I believe it deserves it’s more technical discussions here. So obviously it all starts with a great QB, but how much blame does a great QB get vs WRs or offensive play callers. At some point blame has to be placed. So let’s start here. True/False Great QBs can win with average receivers? True/False Great QBs can win with average OCs? True/False Great QBs can overcome average or bad defenses? Is Allen a top 5 QB? Are Diggs/Beasley/Sanders/Davis a top 5WR group? Is Mahomes a top 5 QB? Are Hill/Hardman/Robinson/Kelce a top 5 WR group? Is the Bills defense better than KC’s defense? If yes, then why can’t we beat KC? Do we need better receivers to outscore Mahomes, or do we need better defense to stop Mahomes? If yes, who is to blame for the talent shortfall? Offensive/Defensive play calling or Beane? Im curious to see what everyone here thinks about where the main issue lies.
Milanos Milano Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) Josh also holds onto the ball near the top in the league. Is this because WRs aren’t getting open, or because Josh can’t find open receivers enough to get the ball out in time? If Josh is having a hard time finding open receivers, is he really a top 5 QB? We just watched Ben find receivers despite all but 1 new linemen. So you can’t really argue our offensive line was an issue. Same with Brady, he gets the ball out quickly. I honestly keep thinking Allen is elite, but the more you ask these kind of questions, you begin to have doubt. Coupled all this with missed wide open down field WRs, and you start going hmmm. I think Allen will eventually put it all together, but let’s hope so because we are paying him elite money to be elite, not average or a good QB. Edited September 13, 2021 by IronMaidenBills
Milanos Milano Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 McVay is 38-0 when leading at the half. The Rams have overall less talent than we have. How is it that they over perform given the talent they have compared to us? If anyone comes to the conclusion that Allen isn’t a top 5 QB, then why did we pay him top 5 money? So many questions, but nobody is interested in breaking it all down into details here.
MAJBobby Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 54 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: I want to branch this off from the Bills offense because I believe it deserves it’s more technical discussions here. So obviously it all starts with a great QB, but how much blame does a great QB get vs WRs or offensive play callers. At some point blame has to be placed. So let’s start here. True/False Great QBs can win with average receivers? True, However Easier to have at least one great weapon (which we have) True/False Great QBs can win with average OCs? True, however it is easier not to have to overcome bad coaching. True/False Great QBs can overcome average or bad defenses? True, however it is easier if you have good defenses Is Allen a top 5 QB? Are Diggs/Beasley/Sanders/Davis a top 5WR group? Yes Is Mahomes a top 5 QB? Are Hill/Hardman/Robinson/Kelce a top 5 WR group? Yes Is the Bills defense better than KC’s defense? If yes, then why can’t we beat KC? I think it is a push, they looked HORRIBLE Sunday, and we havent played KC in 2021. Do we need better receivers to outscore Mahomes, or do we need better defense to stop Mahomes? If yes, who is to blame for the talent shortfall? Offensive/Defensive play calling or Beane? No we dont, we can beat KC with the offense we have if they execute. Im curious to see what everyone here thinks about where the main issue lies. Comments in Bold 32 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Josh also holds onto the ball near the top in the league. Is this because WRs aren’t getting open, or because Josh can’t find open receivers enough to get the ball out in time? If Josh is having a hard time finding open receivers, is he really a top 5 QB? Horrible Metric without Context, is josh holding the ball longer than othr QBs in 2020 because he was making plays out of the pocket?? We just watched Ben find receivers despite all but 1 new linemen. So you can’t really argue our offensive line was an issue. Same with Brady, he gets the ball out quickly. I honestly keep thinking Allen is elite, but the more you ask these kind of questions, you begin to have doubt. Coupled all this with missed wide open down field WRs, and you start going hmmm. Over 3 decades of NFL football between Ben and Tom, 4 years of Allen I think Allen will eventually put it all together, but let’s hope so because we are paying him elite money to be elite, not average or a good QB. Other comments in Bold. And YES Josh had a Bad game, and NO I do not regret paying him the money.
Solomon Grundy Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said: I want to branch this off from the Bills offense because I believe it deserves it’s more technical discussions here. So obviously it all starts with a great QB, but how much blame does a great QB get vs WRs or offensive play callers. At some point blame has to be placed. So let’s start here. True/False Great QBs can win with average receivers? True/False Great QBs can win with average OCs? True/False Great QBs can overcome average or bad defenses? Is Allen a top 5 QB? Are Diggs/Beasley/Sanders/Davis a top 5WR group? Is Mahomes a top 5 QB? Are Hill/Hardman/Robinson/Kelce a top 5 WR group? Is the Bills defense better than KC’s defense? If yes, then why can’t we beat KC? Do we need better receivers to outscore Mahomes, or do we need better defense to stop Mahomes? If yes, who is to blame for the talent shortfall? Offensive/Defensive play calling or Beane? Im curious to see what everyone here thinks about where the main issue lies. See Tom Brady…
ProcessYaDigg Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 Are you the one who threw an Allen jersey out on the road? 3
Milanos Milano Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 50 minutes ago, ProcessYaDigg said: Are you the one who threw an Allen jersey out on the road? No, Allen is legit. It’s the coaching/play calling I think is the issue.
Royale with Cheese Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 2 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said: Josh also holds onto the ball near the top in the league. Is this because WRs aren’t getting open, or because Josh can’t find open receivers enough to get the ball out in time? If Josh is having a hard time finding open receivers, is he really a top 5 QB? We just watched Ben find receivers despite all but 1 new linemen. So you can’t really argue our offensive line was an issue. Same with Brady, he gets the ball out quickly. I honestly keep thinking Allen is elite, but the more you ask these kind of questions, you begin to have doubt. Coupled all this with missed wide open down field WRs, and you start going hmmm. I think Allen will eventually put it all together, but let’s hope so because we are paying him elite money to be elite, not average or a good QB. If that's what you're basing it on then Mahomes and Russell Wilson aren't top 5 QB's because they hold the ball too.
Milanos Milano Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: If that's what you're basing it on then Mahomes and Russell Wilson aren't top 5 QB's because they hold the ball too. Not really basing it on it, just that it doesn’t help his cause. Everyone is saying Allen is a top 5 QB, if that is truly the case, then Allen has to find ways to beat KC. He has a top 5 WR core and a top 10 defense. At some point you have to place blame for failure to win a super bowl. So who gets it right now, the QB, WRs, or coaching?
CommonCents Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 One game. Yes, it’s very disappointing that the coaches did not adjust or foresee the Steelers using the blueprint from the AFCCG. Everyone has to get better, thankfully it’s week one and not playoff time.
Milanos Milano Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 1 minute ago, CommonCents said: One game. Yes, it’s very disappointing that the coaches did not adjust or foresee the Steelers using the blueprint from the AFCCG. Everyone has to get better, thankfully it’s week one and not playoff time. What if it does happen in the playoffs? What will be everyone’s excuse? Do we draft all O linemen?
CEN-CAL17 Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) Ive said it many of times. If Daboll expects this offense to succeed by just ding shotgun 3 step drops, leaning on Josh to win with his arm it’s not gonna work. Daboll has to change things up. Run the ball, Play Action from under center, PA bootlegs, designed roll outs, sprint outs….. RB screen? Any screen? It’s gonna be a long year if they just expect Josh to sit in the pocket and throw the ball all game long. Pittsburgh did nothing special on defense. Bills said- “We are going shotgun 3 step drops all game”, Pittsburgh’s DL said, “ok we will 4 man pass rush all game”….. Edited September 13, 2021 by CEN-CAL17 1
Milanos Milano Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 1 minute ago, CEN-CAL17 said: If said it many of times. If Daboll expects this offense to succeed by just ding shotgun 3 step drops, leaning on Josh to win with his arm it’s not gonna work. Daboll has to change things up. Run the ball, Play Action from under center, PA bootlegs, designed roll outs, sprint outs….. RB screen? Any screen? It’s gonna be a long year if they just expect Josh to sit in the pocket and throw the ball all game long. Pittsburgh did nothing special on defense. Bills said- “We are going shotgun 3 step drops all game”, Pittsburgh’s DL said, “ok we will 4 man pass rush all game”….. 100% this. I have no idea what everyone is watching. I watched a bad Daboll game, thats what I saw. We aren’t winning a super bowl with this strategy against teams like KC.
CEN-CAL17 Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: 100% this. I have no idea what everyone is watching. I watched a bad Daboll game, thats what I saw. We aren’t winning a super bowl with this strategy against teams like KC. watch 49ers offense. This is what I like. Under center at times, play action, play action bootlegs, lots of motion, toss sweeps….. for god sake move Josh around the field to make plays throwing the ball. Dress out Moss and actually consider running the ball more. Yesterday’s scheme and play calling is gonna cost us.
JGMcD2 Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Not really basing it on it, just that it doesn’t help his cause. Everyone is saying Allen is a top 5 QB, if that is truly the case, then Allen has to find ways to beat KC. He has a top 5 WR core and a top 10 defense. At some point you have to place blame for failure to win a super bowl. So who gets it right now, the QB, WRs, or coaching? Our window has been open for 1 full year and 1 game… and we’re placing blame for making it to the AFCCG losing and then losing 1 game in a 17 game season? Ask me this question after this season if we don’t find a way to beat KC in the playoffs… and yes we will play them there. If we’re saying what needs to be fixed it’s the offensive play calling… but “placing blame for not winning a Super Bowl” is an odd way to phrase things… Edited September 13, 2021 by JGMcD2
Mat68 Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 4 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said: I want to branch this off from the Bills offense because I believe it deserves it’s more technical discussions here. So obviously it all starts with a great QB, but how much blame does a great QB get vs WRs or offensive play callers. At some point blame has to be placed. So let’s start here. True/False Great QBs can win with average receivers? True/False Great QBs can win with average OCs? True/False Great QBs can overcome average or bad defenses? Is Allen a top 5 QB? Are Diggs/Beasley/Sanders/Davis a top 5WR group? Is Mahomes a top 5 QB? Are Hill/Hardman/Robinson/Kelce a top 5 WR group? Is the Bills defense better than KC’s defense? If yes, then why can’t we beat KC? Do we need better receivers to outscore Mahomes, or do we need better defense to stop Mahomes? If yes, who is to blame for the talent shortfall? Offensive/Defensive play calling or Beane? Im curious to see what everyone here thinks about where the main issue lies. Coaching. Daboll is not the offensive coach Reid is. Mahomes is the best player in the league. Maybe Allen and the Bills never get past him. Maybe they dont have to.
LABILLBACKER Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 2 hours ago, ProcessYaDigg said: Are you the one who threw an Allen jersey out on the road? Exactly....why do I feel the OP's post is written in code?
PatsFanNH Posted September 13, 2021 Posted September 13, 2021 4 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said: I want to branch this off from the Bills offense because I believe it deserves it’s more technical discussions here. So obviously it all starts with a great QB, but how much blame does a great QB get vs WRs or offensive play callers. At some point blame has to be placed. So let’s start here. True/False Great QBs can win with average receivers? True/False Great QBs can win with average OCs? True/False Great QBs can overcome average or bad defenses? Is Allen a top 5 QB? Are Diggs/Beasley/Sanders/Davis a top 5WR group? Is Mahomes a top 5 QB? Are Hill/Hardman/Robinson/Kelce a top 5 WR group? Is the Bills defense better than KC’s defense? If yes, then why can’t we beat KC? Do we need better receivers to outscore Mahomes, or do we need better defense to stop Mahomes? If yes, who is to blame for the talent shortfall? Offensive/Defensive play calling or Beane? Im curious to see what everyone here thinks about where the main issue lies. 1. True —- Brady did it most of his career, and Rogers has done it from time to time just to name two. 2. True —- Again Brady did it with Weis and he was average at best. 3. Mostly False — a QB can hide the D for a bit but when they come up against a good opponent they will be exposed. 4. Maybe, at worse Allen is top 7 (Rogers, Brady, Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, MAYBE Murray before him) 5. Diggs is the only Elite receiver the Bills have. 6. Mahomes is number 1 right now IMO. 7. Hill and Kelce are elite. the Patriots absolutely sucked last year but yet had a chance to beat them.. so maybe a better defensive scheme when facing then, like shutting down Kelsey.
Milanos Milano Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 5 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said: watch 49ers offense. This is what I like. Under center at times, play action, play action bootlegs, lots of motion, toss sweeps….. for god sake move Josh around the field to make plays throwing the ball. Dress out Moss and actually consider running the ball more. Yesterday’s scheme and play calling is gonna cost us. Exactly. Because the 9ers are ran by a true professional play caller. I’m fully jealous of the 9ers having Shanahan.
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