THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - And, We're Off!

[Motorin']

I'm so glad you pointed out Josh's demeanor. I would say that's my biggest criticism of him so far. He's sulked on the sidelines late in games that haven't gone well, or stared blankly off into the distance when he should be getting focused on what to do when he gets the ball back. 

 

If you want to go home and take some time to sulk by yourself after a big game that's one thing. But not in front of your teammates, and absolutely not while there's still time on the clock.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

I'm so glad you pointed out Josh's demeanor. I would say that's my biggest criticism of him so far. He's sulked on the sidelines late in games that haven't gone well, or stared blankly off into the distance when he should be getting focused on what to do when he gets the ball back. 

 

If you want to go home and take some time to sulk by yourself after a big game that's one thing. But not in front of your teammates, and absolutely not while there's still time on the clock.

 

 

Last season, Josh had Barkley to lighten the mood on the sideline. He was always talking to Josh, and always had a huge smile on his face. I'm hoping that Mitch and Josh have the same relationship. There will be times when Josh needs someone to pick him up and/or calm him down.

[appoo]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Good points.  Steelers may be built to win by hiding Ben, but the Bills are built win by putting the ball in Josh's hands.  Limited role or not Ben produced, and he's going to the Hall of Fame because he produced for nearly two decades.   Josh has to produce.   If the Bills want to win by hiding Josh, then they should trade him and keep Trubisky - he's cheaper.  

 

Right now, it's live by the Josh or die by the Josh.  

This I agree with 

[marky]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:47 AM, Shaw66 said:

Allen’s body language said it was.  He was lackadaisical coming back to the huddle, had a “whatever” kind of manner about him, as though he was mailing in the last few plays.  Sanders had a false start, as if he didn’t care too much, either.  Diggs strolled back to the line of scrimmage. 

Club them with a 1x2.

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, beavis said:

Club them with a 1x2.

I dunno.  You think that would work?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I dunno.  You think that would work?

My question to you Shaw is we seem to have a split starting.

 

What I see is a narrative pushed by WGR that offense (Bills no exception) needs to be all passing, no running, unless Josh is doing that too. They scored 501 points last year with that approach, so do it again, look around the league and copy the Cowboys and Bucs.

 

Always aggressive, Howard Simon was mad the Bills punted on 4th down at the Steelers 43 and once at their own 45 in the first half, let alone the 4th-8 and 4th-1 in the second half.

 

Verses fans observing that in SOME situations a bit of balance would not be a bad thing, maybe give Singletary more than 5 carries in the first half and 11 for the game.

 

What is your thought to the 51 passes, 25 runs (9 of them Allen) in the game?

 

If we’re okay with Allen throwing 51 times every game, then maybe what you see is it’s not going to be good enough some Sunday’s and furthermore, it can look ugly at times. The Bills have a mediocre line and no second pitch (no Tight Ends for safety valves, no RB screens, no run game). 

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

My question to you Shaw is we seem to have a split starting.

 

What I see is a narrative pushed by WGR that offense (Bills no exception) needs to be all passing, no running, unless Josh is doing that too. They scored 501 points last year with that approach, so do it again, look around the league and copy the Cowboys and Bucs.

 

Always aggressive, Howard Simon was mad the Bills punted on 4th down at the Steelers 43 and once at their own 45 in the first half, let alone the 4th-8 and 4th-1 in the second half.

 

Verses fans observing that in SOME situations a bit of balance would not be a bad thing, maybe give Singletary more than 5 carries in the first half and 11 for the game.

 

What is your thought to the 51 passes, 25 runs (9 of them Allen) in the game?

 

If we’re okay with Allen throwing 51 times every game, then maybe what you see is it’s not going to be good enough some Sunday’s and furthermore, it can look ugly at times. The Bills have a mediocre line and no second pitch (no Tight Ends for safety valves, no RB screens, no run game). 

I gotta admit, I don't pretend to know what to do.  I just watch and listen.  

 

On this run-pass split thing, McDermott has said that he wants to be able to have success passing 50 times or running 40 times, depending on what works against one defense or another.  That's his objective.   I don't know if he really meant it, but he's said it.  

 

I don't care if they throw 50 times, if that's the way they think that they can move the ball.  The only objective is to be successful - move the ball, score, win.  That's the objective.  

 

What bothered me about Sunday is that they threw 50 times but had so little success.  The Steelers had defenders everywhere.  Now, some of that was bcause they could get pass rush with four, but frankly, I didn't think the pass rush shouldn't have disrupted the passing game that much.  Allen had protection on plenty of plays, but nowhere to go with the ball.  And Allen escaped the rush often enough.   The problem wasn't the pass rush; it was that the scheme wasn't generating the open throws that Allen found so often last year.  Pittsburgh was prepared for the route trees, and Daboll didn't have variations available that could counter the Steelers' defensive schemes.  And/or, Allen wasn't composed enough to find them.  

 

In some way, Daboll thought he could run against the Steelers; he tried often enough.  It looked to me that the Bills were running outside zone blocking schemes, and it just wasn't working.  Just like last season.  Motor's only real success running came in the fourth quarter, when the Bills were going really pass heavy, and the running game caught the Steelers off guard.  So, I'm not sure that running more against the Steelers was the answer.   I think more effective passing is the answer.  I think that the Bills need creativity - the Andy Reid kind of creativity, where the pass routes seem different from week to week, and the plays they run off those plays, the little gadget shovel passes and other things, keep catching the defense off guard.  

 

Maybe to put it another way, when you have the talent the Bills have - Allen, Moss, Beasley, SIngletary, Davis, McKenzie, and Knox, you have the talent to be creative from week to week, to be one step ahead of the defense.  Once in a while, that's going to be running the ball, but most of the time it's going to be bombs away.   That's how KC plays, because they have Mahomes, Hill, Kelce and some other talent.  

 

 

 

 

[Locomark]

One item missing here is our whole offense is based on option routes so when you cross up the receivers you also mess up the timing and QB. They can also call non-option route plays to stop this indecision as I think Daboll may be exposed as someone who goes to these routes almost exclusively. Are you telling me that we field 3 all pro receivers who can’t get open on basic route trees? 

[Shaw66]

34 minutes ago, Locomark said:

One item missing here is our whole offense is based on option routes so when you cross up the receivers you also mess up the timing and QB. They can also call non-option route plays to stop this indecision as I think Daboll may be exposed as someone who goes to these routes almost exclusively. Are you telling me that we field 3 all pro receivers who can’t get open on basic route trees? 

Right.  I think Allen is as talented as Mahomes, and his receivers are, too.  It's the creativity that is lacking. 

[John from Riverside]

12 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Good points.  Steelers may be built to win by hiding Ben, but the Bills are built win by putting the ball in Josh's hands.  Limited role or not Ben produced, and he's going to the Hall of Fame because he produced for nearly two decades.   Josh has to produce.   If the Bills want to win by hiding Josh, then they should trade him and keep Trubisky - he's cheaper.  

 

Right now, it's live by the Josh or die by the Josh.  

This won’t even be the same ben by mid season We got the fresh been just going in his arm is going to fall off his shoulder just like it did last year

[Governor]

At the time, it looked to me like Allen was holding his ankle after a sack. Then he was holding it once again a few plays later. I wonder if that played a part in his end of game attitude. Maybe he hurt.

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, Governor said:

At the time, it looked to me like Allen was holding his ankle after a sack. Then he was holding it once again a few plays later. I wonder if that played a part in his end of game attitude. Maybe he hurt.

I didn't see that, but you could be right. 

[SoCal Deek]

I remain very concerned about the offense. During preseason I remember when we’d run the ball ten straight times or then we’d pass the ball ten straight times and I’d say ‘this has to be them simply working on repetition to sharpen up some execution things’. But after Sunday I’m starting to think that wasn’t the case at all. Daboll actually thinks he can line his guys up in five wides and pass the ball ten straight times! It’s not going to work in the NFL. You’ll get some decent drives but most will sputter out, or get stopped with a holding penalty, and end up in a field goal. Rinse and repeat! 

Edited September 15, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I remain very concerned about the offense. During preseason I remember when we’d run the ball ten straight times or then we’d pass the ball ten straight times and I’d say ‘this has to be them simply working on repetition to sharpen up some execution things’. But after Sunday I’m starting to think that wasn’t the case at all. Daboll actually thinks he can line his guys up in five wides and pass the ball ten straight times! It’s not going to work in the NFL. You’ll get some decent drives but most will sputter out, or get stopped with a holding penalty, and end up in a field goal. Rinse and repeat! 

Well, I sort of agree with you.   It CAN work to run ten times in a row, or pass ten times in a row.   It all depends on what the defense is doing, who they have on the field, what scheme they're running, etc.   For years, teams have run no-huddle as a device to keep the same 11 defensive players on the field, because those players don't match up well against the 11 the offense has on the field.   Brady used catch teams mismatched like that and run the ball over and over.  

 

It's why I think the offensive failure on Sunday was so much on Daboll.   Yes, you can pass ten times in a row, and yes, you can go five-wide over and over again, but that only makes sense if you have schemes and plays that allow you to take advantage of what those calls and formations do for you.   Whether you can take advantage is exactly what the coaches are supposed to figure out during the week, and they need to have contingency plans built into the game plan so that they can attack in different ways if that's what's need on Sunday.   

 

I mean, it's not like the Bills didn't know the Steelers had pass rushers.  They knew the Steelers were third in the league last season in yards allowed and points allowed.   The Bills have the talent to attack any defense, and it's up to the coaches to figure out how.  You can't just throw 11 guys on the field and say, "Go outplay them."

[appoo]

We have a game plan offense. There's ups and downs with that. The upside is that it's defensive scheme agnostic - theoretically you should be ok against teams stacking the run, pass defend first, strength back or front - and still be able to do some work. 

 

The downside is that game plan offenses don't have a bread and butter staple, and tend to be more finesse than power. It's hard for teams to switch from a power offense to a spread pass game. It's easier to be a spread offense and a finesse, crease, run team. 

 

Daboll made a point that he didn't have much interest in having Allen hold the ball long enough to throw more deep balls. He didn't think his protection would hold up, and when that happens you're just hoping you don't end up with a Turn over. 

 

If your basic pass protection isn't holding up, then your conventional alternative is turn to a power run game. The Problem is the Bills simply do not have the personell to turn to that. They can run various zone stuff, but the Steelers backers were flying to that. So Daboll did what he thought was his only options left - short to intermediate pass, misdirection runs, QB runs. 

 

Didn't work. 

 

That's not to say this offense will be lost, or that the Bills won't make the SB. If Allen hits on just 2 deep throws, this game is probably over by the middle of the 3rd quarter. The margin the Steelers were playing in their defensive game plan was extraordinarily thin. 

 

But in terms of the Bills. they were basically playing out a worst case scenario on offense. Line can't Pass Pro. Backers were good on Zone runs, Allen wasn't hitting his deep shots. 

[Beast]

I'm not worries about the Bills offense.

 

1- If Allen hits a wide open Sanders, there is 7 more points.

 

2- If McDermott calls on Bass to make a 53 yard FG, which I am still puzzled why he didn't, even with a little wind, there are 3 more points.

 

That's 26 points they should have put on the scoreboard. No, our offense didn't look sharp but their own errors caused them to lose that game. 

 

 

[rockpile]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I sort of agree with you.   It CAN work to run ten times in a row, or pass ten times in a row.   It all depends on what the defense is doing, who they have on the field, what scheme they're running, etc.   For years, teams have run no-huddle as a device to keep the same 11 defensive players on the field, because those players don't match up well against the 11 the offense has on the field.   Brady used catch teams mismatched like that and run the ball over and over.  

 

It's why I think the offensive failure on Sunday was so much on Daboll.   Yes, you can pass ten times in a row, and yes, you can go five-wide over and over again, but that only makes sense if you have schemes and plays that allow you to take advantage of what those calls and formations do for you.   Whether you can take advantage is exactly what the coaches are supposed to figure out during the week, and they need to have contingency plans built into the game plan so that they can attack in different ways if that's what's need on Sunday.   

 

I mean, it's not like the Bills didn't know the Steelers had pass rushers.  They knew the Steelers were third in the league last season in yards allowed and points allowed.   The Bills have the talent to attack any defense, and it's up to the coaches to figure out how.  You can't just throw 11 guys on the field and say, "Go outplay them."

 

The way they lined up for each offensive play was ridiculous. Five receivers meant it was a pass. Bringing in a running back or two meant it was a run. 

 

Also, the apparent use of Josh as an RB was foolish. It seemed like a few plays were designed for Josh to run, not an on field decision by Josh to scramble or take advantage of a lane that opened up. They cannot afford to use him routinely as an RB! The exception would be 4th and short where he should run, not be assigned to attempt trick plays.