A Few Thoughts about the Steelers Game, in no particular order

[BADOLBILZ]

56 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Enh … I watched that a couple of times and that’s not what I saw at all. Watch it again. 
 

 

 

I watched it live and I watched the replay from the reverse angle seconds later.

 

There is always an excuse with Edmunds...........and never a big, game changing play.

 

The Bills defense in general needs to be a bit more frenetic........when they were sharp and opportunistic early in 2017 under McDermott that was the style that made them better than the sum of their parts.

    

 

[Shaw66]

Virgil -

 

I'm always amused how similar the things are that we write.  Again today.   The stadium energy was amazing.  Allen was off.  Oliver was special.  

 

A couple of things:  I didn't have a problem on the interference call on Wallace.   He had his back turned to the ball all the way and was face guarding the receiver.   His momentum continued to drive downfield, and he blocked the receiver's ability to come back for the ball.   It's almost classic interference - it's a free ball, and if Wallace turns and finds the ball to make a play, it's okay.  But he didn't; all he did was interfere with the receiver's ability to make a play.   I think the official nearest the play couldn't see much more than the receiver's back, so he properly didn't call anything.  The official trailing the play couldn't see the contact, but she could see that Wallace never made a play on the ball.   I think it's often the case that when an official that far away makes the call, it's mostly a guess.  In this case, she guessed right.  

 

The call I wanted to see again was the hold on White that negated his INT.   On the replay, it looked to me like one of those plays where there was incidental contact, probably initiated by the receiver.  White stood his ground, took the contact, then made a much better play on the ball that the receiver did.  

 

Whatever.  The officials had pretty much nothing to do with the outcome. 

[DCofNC]

5 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

One other thing not mentioned yet in this thread:  why do they keep bringing Levi Wallace back as the starting CB when he has games like this?  He was horrible.

He is not good enough to be starting, he got beat like a drum yesterday and it’s not the first time we have seen it from him.  Not going after a corner this off season looked highly questionable and still does.

12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Virgil -

 

I'm always amused how similar the things are that we write.  Again today.   The stadium energy was amazing.  Allen was off.  Oliver was special.  

 

A couple of things:  I didn't have a problem on the interference call on Wallace.   He had his back turned to the ball all the way and was face guarding the receiver.   His momentum continued to drive downfield, and he blocked the receiver's ability to come back for the ball.   It's almost classic interference - it's a free ball, and if Wallace turns and finds the ball to make a play, it's okay.  But he didn't; all he did was interfere with the receiver's ability to make a play.   I think the official nearest the play couldn't see much more than the receiver's back, so he properly didn't call anything.  The official trailing the play couldn't see the contact, but she could see that Wallace never made a play on the ball.   I think it's often the case that when an official that far away makes the call, it's mostly a guess.  In this case, she guessed right.  

 

The call I wanted to see again was the hold on White that negated his INT.   On the replay, it looked to me like one of those plays where there was incidental contact, probably initiated by the receiver.  White stood his ground, took the contact, then made a much better play on the ball that the receiver did.  

 

Whatever.  The officials had pretty much nothing to do with the outcome. 

The Wallace PI call was interference, there’s no arguing it, he never played the ball and hit the receiver, can’t do it.  The White holding call looked suspect at best. 

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Virgil -

 

I'm always amused how similar the things are that we write.  Again today.   The stadium energy was amazing.  Allen was off.  Oliver was special.  

 

A couple of things:  I didn't have a problem on the interference call on Wallace.   He had his back turned to the ball all the way and was face guarding the receiver.   His momentum continued to drive downfield, and he blocked the receiver's ability to come back for the ball.   It's almost classic interference - it's a free ball, and if Wallace turns and finds the ball to make a play, it's okay.  But he didn't; all he did was interfere with the receiver's ability to make a play.   I think the official nearest the play couldn't see much more than the receiver's back, so he properly didn't call anything.  The official trailing the play couldn't see the contact, but she could see that Wallace never made a play on the ball.   I think it's often the case that when an official that far away makes the call, it's mostly a guess.  In this case, she guessed right.  

 

The call I wanted to see again was the hold on White that negated his INT.   On the replay, it looked to me like one of those plays where there was incidental contact, probably initiated by the receiver.  White stood his ground, took the contact, then made a much better play on the ball that the receiver did.  

 

Whatever.  The officials had pretty much nothing to do with the outcome. 

 

This is where I am on every play. In my section I said the same thing about the Wallace PI call. You HAVE to get your head around. He tracks the ball, then it is no call. People told me I should go buy a Steelers jersey. HA!

 

I would like to see the Tre call again. There was some contact, but nothing for a call. 

The one I would like to see back is the Allen throw to the end zone at the end of the game. I am tempted to think it is similar to the Wallace call, but I haven't seen much replay yet.

[Olliemets]

Excellent Analysis. Especially on the coaching/decisions and "tight" Josh end.

Tomlin had his team ready. I like the older school coaches who play their teams hard through pre season and take a chance, don't worry as much about injuries. 

 

I'm downstate so I only get to 1 or 2 games a year. Going in 2 weeks v Washington. Really don't want to be 0-2 going in.

 

The #### eyed optimist in me hopes that this game is a wake up call. Stop buying into the hype guys. You are playing a 1RST Place Schedule and every opponent is going to be up for the Bills. Take care of business in Miami next week.

[SectionC3]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Virgil -

 

I'm always amused how similar the things are that we write.  Again today.   The stadium energy was amazing.  Allen was off.  Oliver was special.  

 

A couple of things:  I didn't have a problem on the interference call on Wallace.   He had his back turned to the ball all the way and was face guarding the receiver.   His momentum continued to drive downfield, and he blocked the receiver's ability to come back for the ball.   It's almost classic interference - it's a free ball, and if Wallace turns and finds the ball to make a play, it's okay.  But he didn't; all he did was interfere with the receiver's ability to make a play.   I think the official nearest the play couldn't see much more than the receiver's back, so he properly didn't call anything.  The official trailing the play couldn't see the contact, but she could see that Wallace never made a play on the ball.   I think it's often the case that when an official that far away makes the call, it's mostly a guess.  In this case, she guessed right.  

 

The call I wanted to see again was the hold on White that negated his INT.   On the replay, it looked to me like one of those plays where there was incidental contact, probably initiated by the receiver.  White stood his ground, took the contact, then made a much better play on the ball that the receiver did.  

 

Whatever.  The officials had pretty much nothing to do with the outcome. 

 

The White call was marginal.  White grabbed the received around the receiver’s hips.  It was the kind of thing that gets let go a lot.   The Wallace PI was the right call. 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

Great write-up as always @Virgil, always look forward to these after the game win or lose.

 

Kyle Brandt on GMF likes to say, 'Week 1 is a liar' and I tend to agree. It was really disappointing to lose yesterday, but it was great to see the defense look more like the 2019 version (Oliver was everywhere, Addison looked rejuvenated, Groot had a solid start to his career, Edmunds/Milano/Taron Johnson with really strong games) and between the two sides of the ball, I'm more optimistic that our offense can figure it out with all the talent we have. If we had lost this game and the offense was above-average, but the defense struggled to stop Pittsburgh on the ground and couldn't affect Roethlisberger at all, I think I'd feel a lot worse today. If our defense can play that way all season, we should win a lot of games and be a genuine contender this season. 

 

A lot to clean up, but I trust Josh and the coaching staff to put an uncharacteristically poor game behind them and play like we know they can going forward. 

[dave mcbride]

41 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I watched it live and I watched the replay from the reverse angle seconds later.

 

There is always an excuse with Edmunds...........and never a big, game changing play.

 

The Bills defense in general needs to be a bit more frenetic........when they were sharp and opportunistic early in 2017 under McDermott that was the style that made them better than the sum of their parts.

    

 

Minor point and I honestly could care less about the Edmunds debate, more or less. I find it tiresome and am sorry I even waded in. The far more important point I made was about the Allen throw. Worrying.  

[Coach Tuesday]

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Minor point and I honestly could care less about the Edmunds debate, more or less. I find it tiresome and am sorry I even waded in. The far more important point I made was about the Allen throw. Worrying.  

 

We are in Year Four of this and he still cannot hit a college fly route to a wide open receiver.  It's extremely frustrating.

[fergie's ire]

Also, was it just me or did it seem like Beasley was not the same?  I know, he's an easy target and that could create some bias against him that might shape my perception.  But it seemed there were a couple of balls he could have hung onto but didn't, but also that Josh wasn't going to him the way he did last year.  Last year whenever they needed some tough yards to pick up a first down, he would hit Beasley, and I just didn't see it much yesterday.

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

We are in Year Four of this and he still cannot hit a college fly route to a wide open receiver.  It's extremely frustrating.

Agreed 100 percent. It is unbelievable.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

9 hours ago, Starr Almighty said:

On the last drive the Bills had, Sanders was basically tackled in the endzone it was a PI yet the zebras didn't see that either 🤷🏻‍♂️

That ball did get tipped by a linebacker which might have saved the Steelers on that one. But it was such a bang bang play I would have thought the flag should have come out then been picked up.

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Also, was it just me or did it seem like Beasley was not the same?  I know, he's an easy target and that could create some bias against him that might shape my perception.  But it seemed there were a couple of balls he could have hung onto but didn't, but also that Josh wasn't going to him the way he did last year.  Last year whenever they needed some tough yards to pick up a first down, he would hit Beasley, and I just didn't see it much yesterday.

They were tough catches. Allen's ball placement was off on a lot of passes yesterday. Not his finest hour.

Just now, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

That ball did get tipped by a linebacker which might have saved the Steelers on that one. But it was such a bang bang play I would have thought the flag should have come out then been picked up.

The DB went through Sanders but played the ball all the way. Could have gone either way, but it was bang bang and I wasn't upset by it. The Bills got called for offensive holding on the play anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered. 

[Bob in STL]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I would just add to the gameplan and execution debate on the oline. I think Daboll had a strange day playcalling, not sure why we didn't try some play action (don't recall one play action pass, did I miss one?) or going to 10 personnel and using Breida as a pass catcher (which was often what New England running the same offense used to do with James White against defenses that were teeing off). However, the way the oline was totally demolished really reminded me of the Jets game in McDermott's first year when Rick Dennison was the OC. We got beat pretty bad up front that day too and Dennison's response was to bring more big bodies onto the field and try to run it and then boot Tyrod out and move the pocket. It didn't work and I remember clearly the debate on this board being why didn't he spread it out get the big bodies off the field, lighten the box and try and make it an outside game? Well yesterday with an oline getting equally demolished Daboll stayed spread out and tried that approach and it failed too.

 

My point is not really to say either Dennison or Daboll was wrong or right, or that in either case the playcalling couldn't have been better (clearly it could) but my conclusion in my years watching the game is that when you offensive line is getting beaten like a drum play after play then personnel and system and even playcalling become secondary. There are not many calls on the call sheet that work when multiple linemen are blown up right at the snap every single down. You can't lose the trenches that badly and still win many football games. 

 

If I was ranking reasons for the defeat I go:

 

#1 - offensive line

#2 - whoever decided to sign Haack

#3 - play calling on offense

#4 - macro level coaching / 4th down decisions

#5 - Quarterback play

 

Good post but I have one rebuttal.  
 

I cannot defend signing Haack, I haven’t seen enough if him and I don’t know why we decided to change punters.  However, the blocking on that play was horrible.  The guy who blocked was standing there waiting.   He didn’t have to lay out.   I hear about Haack’s 3 step  approach, and he does look slow back there,  but in this case the Steelers saw something in our blocking scheme at halftime and they took advantage of it.  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bob in STL said:

Good post but I have one rebuttal.  
 

I cannot defend signing Haack, I haven’t seen enough if him and I don’t know why we decided to change punters.  However, the blocking on that play was horrible.  The guy who blocked was standing there waiting.   He didn’t have to lay out.   I hear about Haack’s 3 step  approach, and he does look slow back there,  but in this case the Steelers saw something in our blocking scheme at halftime and they took advantage of it.  

 

I think Matakevich whiffed, but the point is more when you have Haack's slow mechanics any breakdown is potentially a disaster. The Steelers had a breakdown first half and Harvin was pressured and shanked his punt. But it wasn't an automatic 6. That is the difference. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, davefan66 said:

Then call the penalty, on both teams.  Just be consistent.  
 

I get refs allow holding, hand fighting, sometimes a little PI...”let them play”.  Just don’t suddenly call the penalties on plays that kill a drive, or wipe out an INT.

The Bills D-line wasn't drawing the holds, however. The Steelers D-line was because the Bills couldn't handle them. Felciano and Dawkins were horrible yesterday. Felciano is OK against JAGs but he's an utter liability against the Chris Joneses and Cam Heywards of the world. Simply not athletic or strong enough.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Good post but I have one rebuttal.  
 

I cannot defend signing Haack, I haven’t seen enough if him and I don’t know why we decided to change punters.  However, the blocking on that play was horrible.  The guy who blocked was standing there waiting.   He didn’t have to lay out.   I hear about Haack’s 3 step  approach, and he does look slow back there,  but in this case the Steelers saw something in our blocking scheme at halftime and they took advantage of it.  

Yeah, looks like they overloaded someone and Klein ended up releasing pretty early, they saw the weakness and got us. They should be timing Haack i practice (I think it's around 2.1 seconds to get it off) but he does look a little slower than Bojo was.

[rockpile]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

Agree with all this.  This is the third game in a row, stretching back to the last two playoff games, that the offense was pretty much shut down.  I’m kinda done with pass-only, empty backfield football; it doesn’t seem to be sustainable, especially against teams that can generate a pass rush with their front four. And I know it’s only one game, but the gap with KC seems to have widened.

 

Lots of good input, after a great conversation starter by Virgil.

 

The lack of a running game can be largely blamed on too frequent use of the empty backfield formation. When they brought in an RB or two, the Steelers defense and everyone watching was expecting a run! 

 

It was so painful to see the PI call on Wallace. If he just turned his head to look back for the ball, it would have been a terrific defensive play.

 

I know it is "only one game" as I have heard so many say. But as mannc said, it is a continuation of what did NOT work last season and in the playoffs. Buffalo is a contender. I am not a fair weather fan, but I am also not blind!  Id do not want to just make the playoffs, I want the Bills to bring the Lombardi trophy home. 

 

GO BILLS! 😎

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by rockpile

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Yeah, looks like they overloaded someone and Klein ended up releasing pretty early, they saw the weakness and got us. They should be timing Haack i practice (I think it's around 2.1 seconds to get it off) but he does look a little slower than Bojo was.

Is he actually slower? I can't tell. If someone has info on that, I'd be curious. 

4 minutes ago, rockpile said:

 

Lots of good input, after a great conversation starter by Virgil.

 

The lack of a running game can be largely blamed on too frequent use of the empty backfield formation. When they brought in an RB or two, the Steelers defense and everyone watching was expecting a run! 

 

It was so painful to see the PI call on Wallace. If he just turned his head to look back for the ball, it would have been a terrific defensive play.

 

I know it is "only one game" as I have heard so many say. But as mannic says, it is a continuation of what did NOT work last season and in the playoffs. Buffalo is a contender. I am not a fair weather fan, but I am also not blind!  Id do not want to just make the playoffs, I want the Bills to bring the Lombardi trophy home. 

 

GO BILLS! 😎

 

 

He didn't turn his head back because he was beat. Not by much, but "not by much" is often good enough for a good QB/WR combo to connect in the NFL. Anyway, that's what happens when you get beat. Wallace absolutely should have been called for it in the first half too on that pass to Claypool on the other side of the field but got away with one. He never looked back and plowed into Claypool well before the ball arrived. Roethlisberger and Claypool were incredulous, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Roethlisberger informed the officials about that and told them to pay extra close attention the next time he did that. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by dave mcbride

[4BillsintheBurgh]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills D-line wasn't drawing the holds, however. The Steelers D-line was because the Bills couldn't handle them. Felciano and Dawkins were horrible yesterday. Felciano is OK against JAGs but he's an utter liability against the Chris Joneses and Cam Heywards of the world. Simply not athletic or strong enough.

Saw on  a highlight or two that Morse had to slide and help Ford on Alualu which left Feliciano alone on Heyward. Thought Ford should be able to handle single blocking and leave Morse to help with Heyward, just looked like Alualu came through quicker than Heyward on those plays.