Post Game Thoughts

[Alphadawg7]

On 9/12/2021 at 9:05 PM, newcam2012 said:

 

- Levi Mitchell was a big liability out there.

 

 

I definitely disagree with this take.  I literally was sitting with Levi's college friends during the whole game in the stands, and for that we literally watched Levi on just about every play.  

 

Levi played great coverage all day and made some good plays.  There were only 2 negative plays, and they are not nearly as negative as they seem if you actually watch the play fully.  

 

1.  The TD:  Levi had great coverage and deflected the ball.  Unfortunately, the WR made a sensational play and was able to catch the ball off the deflection still while also dragging his foot.  I don't know how Levi plays any better coverage than that, it was as simple as the bounce did not go his way.  

 

2.  The PI:  This was definitely the correct flag, but for one reason and one reason only...he wasn't looking back at the ball.  I mean he even deflected the ball away.  But according to the rule, he has to be facing the ball as well to avoid PI.  HOWEVER...the actual reason for that is because the ball was grossly under thrown.  His coverage on the play was excellent and he had both his hands up and away from the receiver and actually deflected the pass.  But because the ball was so grossly under thrown, the result now is that Levi is in between the WR and the Ball, and the rule is that he must also make a play on the ball.  

 

Keep in mind though, the guy he was covering is substantially bigger than him, and it was not even apparent until the very end of the pass that the ball coming was grossly under thrown.  Claypool did not jump back towards the ball until the last second as it was coming up short.  Hard to fault Levi on that when he is running step for step with a bigger and faster player.  

 

His coverage on both those plays was actually very good.  The TD he deflected and got unlucky that Diontae just made a sensational play grabbing the tipped the pass.  The Claypool PI was excellent coverage on a guy much bigger and faster that resulted in a penalty because Big Ben has no arm left and it came up short where Chase didn't jump until the pass was already on them.  

 

I watched Levi make several other good plays throughout the day and overall play very tight coverage most the game.  

[Jukester]

Most of the points made here are completely valid.  But bottom line is this was a close game between 2 playoff teams and these games usually turn on 2 or 3 plays.  For me there was a sequence of 3 plays in the 4th quarter that was the huge momentum shift.

1. 4th down backward toss - led to TD

2. Next possession - drop by Sanders on perfect throw which would’ve been a huge gain but killed the drive

3. Blocked punt/td follows

Pitt fed off this energy and kept making play after play afterward. 

 

Bills got punched in the mouth but this team will bounce back. 

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I definitely disagree with this take.  I literally was sitting with Levi's college friends during the whole game in the stands, and for that we literally watched Levi on just about every play.  

 

Levi played great coverage all day and made some good plays.  There were only 2 negative plays, and they are not nearly as negative as they seem if you actually watch the play fully.  

 

1.  The TD:  Levi had great coverage and deflected the ball.  Unfortunately, the WR made a sensational play and was able to catch the ball off the deflection still while also dragging his foot.  I don't know how Levi plays any better coverage than that, it was as simple as the bounce did not go his way.  

 

2.  The PI:  This was definitely the correct flag, but for one reason and one reason only...he wasn't looking back at the ball.  I mean he even deflected the ball away.  But according to the rule, he has to be facing the ball as well to avoid PI.  HOWEVER...the actual reason for that is because the ball was grossly under thrown.  His coverage on the play was excellent and he had both his hands up and away from the receiver and actually deflected the pass.  But because the ball was so grossly under thrown, the result now is that Levi is in between the WR and the Ball, and the rule is that he must also make a play on the ball.  

 

Keep in mind though, the guy he was covering is substantially bigger than him, and it was not even apparent until the very end of the pass that the ball coming was grossly under thrown.  Claypool did not jump back towards the ball until the last second as it was coming up short.  Hard to fault Levi on that when he is running step for step with a bigger and faster player.  

 

His coverage on both those plays was actually very good.  The TD he deflected and got unlucky that Diontae just made a sensational play grabbing the tipped the pass.  The Claypool PI was excellent coverage on a guy much bigger and faster that resulted in a penalty because Big Ben has no arm left and it came up short where Chase didn't jump until the pass was already on them.  

 

I watched Levi make several other good plays throughout the day and overall play very tight coverage most the game.  

Great breakdown. I'm ok with being corrected and wrong. Even coach Fraizer said similar things. 

[Old Coot]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Not sure how you can say the Oline played well. Imho, they were a major reason why we lost. Pitt hardly ever blitzed. Their front beat up on thw bills oline as Josh was under constant and consistent pressure

 I agree.  The OL needs to execute better.

[JerseyBills]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:35 AM, HOUSE said:

Ball Security is on my mind this morning because the problem will not just go away

 

Its been 4 years now, something needs to change

 

Thank you! 

These fumbles will eventually kill us in an important game. He has been lucky , not losing too many but it's only a matter of time before that trend goes the opposite way

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Great breakdown. I'm ok with being corrected and wrong. Even coach Fraizer said similar things. 

Yup. Levi played a good game, not great or elite but good. 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 9/13/2021 at 1:05 PM, newcam2012 said:

- Bills Offense was exposed. The blue print is available. Solid defenses have caught up to the Bills scheme.Too predictable and changes need to happen. If not there's no way this team hoists a Lombardi trophy. 

 

- Allen regressed back to his rookie days. Inaccurate, poor mechnics, forced passes, fumbles, and poor vision. Never felt confident watching him today. Hate to say that as a big fan of his. I can't get out of my head that maybe he takes a few steps backwards this year. 

 

 

 

Nah. Or at least not yet. Takes far more than one game to say either of these things.

 

Joe B. also pointed out that play action was way way down this week, possibly because they ran so many 4 and 5 WR sets. A bit more of that should help. But we were actually running an offense that was somewhat different from what we ran last year. What the Steelers figured out was a fairly newish variant.

 

Again, as Joe said, they were much more successful with 11 personnel than they were with 4 or 5 WRs.

 

If the Steelers figured it all out, how come our plays with 11 personnel were so successful? Same question for Allen's regression. 

 

Too much recency bias in the many sky is falling posts this week. Far too early to say.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[LABILLBACKER]

I can't believe Daboll called 7 qb draws which basically amounted to nothing. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nah. Or at least not yet. Takes far more than one game to say either of these things.

 

Joe B. also pointed out that play action was way way down this week, possibly because they ran so many 4 and 5 WR sets. A bit more of that should help. But we were actually running an offense that was somewhat different from what we ran last year. What the Steelers figured out was a fairly newish variant.

 

Again, as Joe said, they were much more successful with 11 personnel than they were with 4 or 5 WRs.

 

If the Steelers figured it all out, how come our plays with 11 personnel were so successful? Same question for Allen's regression. 

 

Too much recency bias in the many sky is falling posts this week. Far too early to say.

Agree it too early to say. What's not disputable is the Bills offense and Allen have been pretty poor in their last three outings. (Balt, KC, and Pitt.) Each of those games Allen was pressured and running for his life. The lack of a run game coupled with a porous Oline is concerning. Time will tell if my premise is correct. 

[billsfan_34]

On 9/13/2021 at 12:25 AM, StHustle said:

It's not as bad as you just made it sound. Josh clearly was jittery early and never fully got into his groove. Play calling was sub par. That and most of the rest are things we saw at a high level for long stretches last year. Just throw all that out the window cause game 1 of the season went awry? 

 

Never get too high or low on your team after week 1!

Year 4 franchise QBs should not be “jittery”. Swagger and confidence with good mechanics was missing. Daboll did not help him out with a putrid game plan and play calling, especially in critical situations i.e. 4th and 1.5 - what the F was that backwards pass to Breida? Tight games you slam that rock up the gut.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

Year 4 franchise QBs should not be “jittery”. Swagger and confidence with good mechanics was missing. Daboll did not help him out with a putrid game plan and play calling, especially in critical situations i.e. 4th and 1.5 - what the F was that backwards pass to Breida? Tight games you slam that rock up the gut.

Allen was pretty bad and that's undeniable. Very disappointing that the offense was manhandled on every level. There is plenty of blame to go around and Pitt's D gets credit too. Scoring 10 points isn't going to get the Bills wins. 

 

Agree on pounding the rock but can they do that? The Bills offensively aren't that type of team. Imho, I highly doubt a run between the tackles would have gotten the Bills a first down. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by newcam2012

[Simon]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This was definitely the correct flag, but for one reason and one reason only...he wasn't looking back at the ball.

 

This is not true at all. There is no rule that states a defender has to be looking back for the ball. Playing the receiver without looking back is not a penalty.

Levi was called for interference because first he was grabbing at the receivers right arm near the top of the route. 

Then he used his other arm/hand to grab the receivers left arm when the ball was coming in.

He grabbed BOTH OF THE WR'S ARMS while the ball was in the air.

Referees tend to look down on that sort of thing.

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Allen was pretty bad and that's undeniable. Very disappointing that the offense was manhandled on every level. There is plenty of blame to go around and Pitt's D gets credit too. Scoring 10 points isn't going to get the Bills wins. 

 

Agree on pounding the rock but can they do that? The Bills offensively aren't that type of team. Imho, I highly doubt a run between the tackles would have gotten the Bills a first down. 

Singletary was getting the tough yards- analytics speaking I would say the right call was running the ball. You are right, lots of blame to go around. Morse is absolutely terrible in the run game and our tackles were getting owned in pass pro. 
 

Daboll must figure out how to run this offense out of different formations. Defenses know exactly what is coming at them.

 

Miami is going to be a tough game and we best get our problems corrected.

Edited September 15, 2021 by billsfan_34

[Apocalypse Nuts]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I definitely disagree with this take.  I literally was sitting with Levi's college friends during the whole game in the stands, and for that we literally watched Levi on just about every play.  

 

Levi played great coverage all day and made some good plays.  There were only 2 negative plays, and they are not nearly as negative as they seem if you actually watch the play fully.  

 

1.  The TD:  Levi had great coverage and deflected the ball.  Unfortunately, the WR made a sensational play and was able to catch the ball off the deflection still while also dragging his foot.  I don't know how Levi plays any better coverage than that, it was as simple as the bounce did not go his way.  

 

2.  The PI:  This was definitely the correct flag, but for one reason and one reason only...he wasn't looking back at the ball.  I mean he even deflected the ball away.  But according to the rule, he has to be facing the ball as well to avoid PI.  HOWEVER...the actual reason for that is because the ball was grossly under thrown.  His coverage on the play was excellent and he had both his hands up and away from the receiver and actually deflected the pass.  But because the ball was so grossly under thrown, the result now is that Levi is in between the WR and the Ball, and the rule is that he must also make a play on the ball.  

 

Keep in mind though, the guy he was covering is substantially bigger than him, and it was not even apparent until the very end of the pass that the ball coming was grossly under thrown.  Claypool did not jump back towards the ball until the last second as it was coming up short.  Hard to fault Levi on that when he is running step for step with a bigger and faster player.  

 

His coverage on both those plays was actually very good.  The TD he deflected and got unlucky that Diontae just made a sensational play grabbing the tipped the pass.  The Claypool PI was excellent coverage on a guy much bigger and faster that resulted in a penalty because Big Ben has no arm left and it came up short where Chase didn't jump until the pass was already on them.  

 

I watched Levi make several other good plays throughout the day and overall play very tight coverage most the game.  

This assessment is spot on.  Wallace and White both had excellent games yesterday and were probably more even than you think.  Of course Roethlisberger went Levi's way more than Tre's like all other smart QB's do.  But go back and look at the tape.  Big Ben was dropping some nice passes in there.  Tre gave up a good one on the left sideline but was in perfect position and even got his hand in there to try and disrupt the catch it just didn't happen.  That was "elite" coverage.  (folks just love that word around here don't they?) 

Go back and watch each pass Wallace got beat on.  He was in great position and all over the receivers.  He has great technique.  The TD was a perfectly timed and placed throw and he nearly broke it up. And did you see the stutter step the receiver made at the line of scrimmage right before he made his move.  Wallace didn't get fooled one bit.  I mean, there's not much more you can do to have better coverage than that?  If he'd had gotten is head around on that one PI and made the play, the conversation would be totally different today.  Remember, the guy was a WALK-ON at friggin ALABAMA!  Not very common I think to say the least.  If he got cut tomorrow, he'd be a starter in this league for at least 3-4 years (one or multiple teams)>

Edited September 15, 2021 by Apocalypse Nuts

[snowbelt_subie]

The problem i see going forward with the bills is  balance 16 runs with RB's and 51 passes.  Not every team is going to be able to exploit the bills. Teams with a good pass rush that can pin their ears back and just rush all game because the bills run so little are going to be a problem.

 

Teams can basically dare the bills to run or not even scheme or worry about it.  The Steelers who normally blitz a ton seen that they could get pressure with just 4, its the same thing that happened to the chiefs in the super bowl. 

[Sisyphean Bills]

Wallace has to be much better at getting his head around. It really isn't great play to be unaware of the where the ball is. Although the Steelers receivers did good work in not tipping off that the pass was coming. Still, he's going to see a ton of work this year, and he has to be better on the small details.

There were a couple of plays that Ben threw the ball directly into "great coverage" (I think at least one of those was Wallace) because Ben knew the refs were going to call defensive holding. Throwing the ball there was meant to force the refs to call the holding. Again, the coverage can be otherwise magnificent, but if you get caught clutching the receiver at some point, that negates all the good work on the play.

[Lofton80]

12 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Yup. Levi played a good game, not great or elite but good. 

 

I actually thought Taron Johnson's coverage was worse. Levi was not that bad. 

[AuntieEm]

On 9/13/2021 at 3:13 PM, JerseyBills said:

I blame 17.

Dude got paid and was just severely inaccurate.  There was plays to be made, he just made bad decisions and some awful throws. 

Lets hope this was an anomaly, every QB has bad weeks. Josh has proven he can bounce back , hopefully he can continue that trend

  

    While I agree it's concerning that this game is the first one since he signed his extension.  I expect Josh will bounce back as I think that he sincerely wants to earn every cents of his extension and its a hard concept to go about proving your worth a 258 million extension.  I think that is what had him a bit rattled first time in front of packed house cheering MVP as he entered  I dunno there's any music that could keep him getting amped by that.  Maybe they could play some sedate elevator music in the stadium till Josh is settled every home game.

 

 

On 9/13/2021 at 3:13 PM, JerseyBills said:

I blame 17.

Dude got paid and was just severely inaccurate.  There was plays to be made, he just made bad decisions and some awful throws. 

Lets hope this was an anomaly, every QB has bad weeks. Josh has proven he can bounce back , hopefully he can continue that trend

  

    While I agree it's concerning that this game is the first one since he signed his extension.  I expect Josh will bounce back as I think that he sincerely wants to earn every cents of his extension and its a hard concept to go about proving your worth a 258 million extension.  I think that is what had him a bit rattled first time in front of packed house cheering MVP as he entered  I dunno there's any music that could keep him getting amped by that.  Maybe they could play some sedate elevator music in the stadium till Josh is settled every home game.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

 

This is not true at all. There is no rule that states a defender has to be looking back for the ball. Playing the receiver without looking back is not a penalty.

Levi was called for interference because first he was grabbing at the receivers right arm near the top of the route. 

Then he used his other arm/hand to grab the receivers left arm when the ball was coming in.

He grabbed BOTH OF THE WR'S ARMS while the ball was in the air.

Referees tend to look down on that sort of thing.

Watch the play again, and you are incorrect as you have to be looking for the ball if you are in the path of the receiver making a play at the ball.  

[Apocalypse Nuts]

5 hours ago, Sisyphean Bills said:

Wallace has to be much better at getting his head around. It really isn't great play to be unaware of the where the ball is. Although the Steelers receivers did good work in not tipping off that the pass was coming. Still, he's going to see a ton of work this year, and he has to be better on the small details.

There were a couple of plays that Ben threw the ball directly into "great coverage" (I think at least one of those was Wallace) because Ben knew the refs were going to call defensive holding. Throwing the ball there was meant to force the refs to call the holding. Again, the coverage can be otherwise magnificent, but if you get caught clutching the receiver at some point, that negates all the good work on the play.

RIght, and those "couple of plays" you're talking about I only specifically remember one going to Wallace, maybe two at the most.  There were also a few at White (his PI in particular) and maybe Johnson, I can't recall exactly, but it was spread around.  People are just all over Levi for just two big plays he allowed (only the PI was actually a bad play) and can't see the whole picture.  I'm not going to try to defend him anymore.  It's not worth it when the people criticizing him are just repeating what someone else said without actually looking at how well he played.