McDermott Game Day Decision Making

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Tomlin isn’t famous as a game day tactician…

 

Tomlin has 2 Super Bowl appearances, a Super Bowl win, another AFCCG appearance, and 9 playoff appearances.  He has a 145-78 record as HC.  He’s one of the longest tenured coaches in the league.  

 

He didn’t get those things by being a poor game day tactician

[JGMcD2]

6 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

your talking win-loss, I'm talking offensive game play.  

 

Pittsburgh: bad team when we played them, they coasted to 11-1 on cupcakes, then imploded.  

 

LA:  That was a good offensive game v. a good defensive team.  

 

SF was banged up I believe when we played them.  

 

Indy, again, not a great offensive game. 

 

Balt: Same, not good on offense.    

 

AZ:  We lost.  

 

My point is, Daboll's playcalling fails at important times against good teams.  The one dimensional offensive stuff is not sustainable.  Agree, or no.  Really doesn't matter to me if you do or not.  

 

Yes, Daboll needs to find more balance. I agree with that point.

 

Your point that his play calling fails at important times against good teams (or defenses as originally defined) is not backed up by their 5-1 (28 PPG) against top 10 defenses last year. If they were failing they'd be losing more of those games than they're winning. If your expectation is that football teams are regularly going to dominate good defensive teams then you're setting yourself up for disappointment with unrealistic expectations.  

 

Hahaha and by the way... you just told me I'm talking win-loss and that you're talking about "offensive gameplay" and then your bullet point for AZ is "We lost." 🤣

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by JGMcD2

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Bills Fan reactions:

 

2019: 4th and 3 @ midfield - Punt "McD is too conservative playing Jauron ball. Needs to to for it"

 

2021: 4th and 3 @ midfield- Goes for it "McD is a horrible game manager. Clearly should have punted"

 

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

We punted on 4th and 3

 

We went for it on 4th and 8, then 4th and 1 (but atrocious play call)

[RyanC883]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

When did I make anything personal or accuse you of making anything personal?

 

You're arguing with anecdotes again and not facts. You said they have their "off-days" with elite D's and it's troubling trend. Are teams not going to have problems against good defenses? Of course they had problems against good defenses.. ultimately they adjusted and won 5/6 football games. I'm here trying to define what you're actually saying to see if it's true.  

 

I showed you they went 5-1 against teams that were top-end defenses last year... they average 28 points in those games.

 

If the 49ers get a pass for being banged up and the Steelers get a pass for falling apart... does that mean we get a pass for playing Tennessee last year with unprecedented circumstances or because all of our WRs were seriously hurt when we played KC in the AFC Championship game? Of course we don't get a pass for that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Answer to highlighted portion: (1) calling someone a "troll."  

 

 

Good teams do have issues against elite D's, most adjust, Daboll  trots out the same pass crazy offense and expects different results (see below, with facts for you).  

 

The Tenn circumstances should have impacted Tenn, not us.  They were the ones without practice.  

 

In terms of KC, our WR's were banged up, and we proceeded to try to throw the ball on KC all game (9 rushing attempts by running backs).  Not a great plan by Daboll.  

 

Baltimore: another 9 rushing attempts by RB's.  

 

Indy: 10 rushing attempts by RB's, 11 by Josh Allen.  

 

I could prob go back further.  The total abandonment of the running game (not JA scrambles) is a recipe for disaster against D's and DCs who can stop the pass, particularly the more often you do it.  Good teams that put up numbers against good defenses generally are more balanced.  Note that Tampa had 28 RB rushing attempts against KC, despite having the arguable GOAT at QB, and a bevy of great receiving options.  

 

 

 

 

[Buffarukus]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Meh. They did this plenty last season and it worked. 
 

I’ll say it again, the Bills lost because Josh Allen, Daboll and the offense were *****…. That falls on McD as well.

 

yeah but josh was clearly struggling, hopefully shaking off rust. we chose a punter who is very good with his accuracy over power and our D was doing very good holding pitts run game. bass has been really good from long range to be given a shot.

 

all this should dictate what you decide to do. if your a coach and you see your "O were *****" then let other elements of the team that were not make the plays.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Buffarukus

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Tomlin has 2 Super Bowl appearances, a Super Bowl win, another AFCCG appearance, and 9 playoff appearances.  He has a 145-78 record as HC.  He’s one of the longest tenured coaches in the league.  

 

He didn’t get those things by being a poor game day tactician

 

He's not known as one either.  Cite Andy Reid's stats as well, if you wish.  He's coached in a bunch of CC games, some SBs, won one.  Well known as a sometimes shaky game manager.  This was "cured" by finally having insane talent at every Offensive skill position.

[RyanC883]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Yes, Daboll needs to find more balance. I agree with that point.

 

Your point that his play calling fails at important times against good teams (or defenses as originally defined) is not backed up by their 5-1 (28 PPG) against top 10 defenses last year. If they were failing they'd be losing more of those games than they're winning. If your expectation is that football teams are regularly going to dominate good defensive teams then you're setting yourself up for disappointment with unrealistic expectations.  

 

Hahaha and by the way... you just told me I'm talking win-loss and that you're talking about "offensive gameplay" and then your bullet point for AZ is "We lost." 🤣

 

 

 

 

yeah, that is funny actually.  I was arguing against the win-loss metric there, but yeah, I see how that comes across as a discombobulated argument.  

 

I think we actually agree, this offense needs more balance to sustain long term success.  So far, I'm not seeing it.  It's like Daboll thinks he can change the NFL by abandoning RBs.  You can't--not long term.  

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Tomlin has 2 Super Bowl appearances, a Super Bowl win, another AFCCG appearance, and 9 playoff appearances.  He has a 145-78 record as HC.  He’s one of the longest tenured coaches in the league.  

 

He didn’t get those things by being a poor game day tactician

 

I can tell you that in PGH, people think he is awful in-game.  

 

I'd disagree, but he makes puzzling TO calls sometimes.  

 

 

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Answer to highlighted portion: (1) calling someone a "troll."  

 

 

Good teams do have issues against elite D's, most adjust, Daboll  trots out the same pass crazy offense and expects different results (see below, with facts for you).  

 

The Tenn circumstances should have impacted Tenn, not us.  They were the ones without practice.  

 

In terms of KC, our WR's were banged up, and we proceeded to try to throw the ball on KC all game (9 rushing attempts by running backs).  Not a great plan by Daboll.  

 

Baltimore: another 9 rushing attempts by RB's.  

 

Indy: 10 rushing attempts by RB's, 11 by Josh Allen.  

 

I could prob go back further.  The total abandonment of the running game (not JA scrambles) is a recipe for disaster against D's and DCs who can stop the pass, particularly the more often you do it.  Good teams that put up numbers against good defenses generally are more balanced.  Note that Tampa had 28 RB rushing attempts against KC, despite having the arguable GOAT at QB, and a bevy of great receiving options.  

 

 

 

 

Please go back and re-read exactly what I said.  I did not call you a troll.. I asked if you were going to continue to troll. Doesn't not make you a troll... I'm defining your behavior and not you as a person. 

 

Glad we found some common ground. That's why I ask for stats and facts. It's not as bad as you were portraying it... but they absolutely do need to make adjustments. 

[Do The Reich Thing]

2 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I’m letting Bass kick anything inside 55 yds. Wind dependent…. But 4th & 8, to throw the ball 30 yards down the field? I’d say better odds kicking the FG!!!!

Yup. Morse thought the guy jumped because the dline shifted and he snapped the ball. Similar to the play at the end of the third quarter where the dlineman for the Steelers jumped and they didn’t call the penalty. 
 

Josh thought Offside on both. 

[JGMcD2]

I'm just going to dump some of my thoughts from a PM with another poster because he asked me to contribute them to the conversation.

 

A couple of things had me scratching my head. 
 

I think McDermott was regretting not going for other manageable 4th downs earlier in the game and decided to be aggressive later and it cost us. Generally I’m fine with his game management… but didn’t like that. 
 

That backward pass on 4th and 1 felt like the Colts weird punt thing a few years back (I think you know what I’m referring to). I wasn’t even mad… I just didn’t know what to say or think. You go with your best and highest percentage play there… which is giving Josh Allen the damn football. 

 

 

When Jittery Josh showed up in the first half I didn’t feel great… but the defense was balling out early. He put together that beautiful drive at the end of the half… something that became a MVP Josh Allen staple last season. He was surgical, ate up clock and seemingly deflated the opposition heading into the half. 
 

It looked to be the case and IMO the Tre pick would’ve sealed the game. Unfortunately the refs made a bad call (didn’t cost us the game… we had plenty of opportunities to take things into our own hands). 

 

After that the Steelers mustered up some life… and Jittery Josh came back. THAT was the point that I was really frustrated with Daboll not putting him in a better spot. Josh is extremely comfortable moving and throwing… so move him out and give him some bunnies. Once he gets in a rhythm he’s unstoppable and it puts the defense on their heels… but at that point the O-line clearly wasn’t capable of letting him get in a rhythm. It was Daboll’s job to manufacture an atmosphere to get Josh comfortable again. He failed there.
 

I think Daboll is one of the top OC in the league and wouldn’t really trade for any other OC (I’d take McVay or LeFluer but they’re HC).
 

He just gets stubborn and it takes games like this to get him to reset. I think we’ll see a gameplan that puts less pressure on Josh to do it all himself next week. It will still be the Josh Allen show… but not where he has to run for his life and make plays. 

 

 

Yeah… but at that point… RUN THE DAMN BALL. Take some pressure off Josh and make teams think about defending the run at least a little bit. We had success running Singletary later in the game. 
 

I never thought I’d say this… but he’s clearly too pass happy. 

[CaptnCoke11]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Meh. They did this plenty last season and it worked. 
 

I’ll say it again, the Bills lost because Josh Allen, Daboll and the offense were *****…. That falls on McD as well.

Difference is a lot of the times they were going for those 4th down they were playing well on offense.  Today probably wasn’t the day for going for 4th and 8s when it was a struggle to move the ball.  

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, 17islongenough said:

That 4th and 8 was big.   I was watching Bass make 60 yarders before the game with no problem 

Exactly,  what's the point drafting this kid and his big leg if we don't use him. The wind wasn't an issue and we weren't playing KC. This whole game seemed so off. The players & coaches were completely out of sync. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

Yup. Morse thought the guy jumped because the dline shifted and he snapped the ball. Similar to the play at the end of the third quarter where the dlineman for the Steelers jumped and they didn’t call the penalty. 
 

Josh thought Offside on both. 

 

Oh, is that what was going on on that 4th and 8 bomb to Davis, Josh thought it was a free play?

[716er]

I'd love to see a replay of the 4th and 8. I think Josh had the ball snapped because he thought a Steeler jumped offside - the DT. Looked like it on TV anyway, but they didn't show a replay.

20 minutes ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

Yup. Morse thought the guy jumped because the dline shifted and he snapped the ball. Similar to the play at the end of the third quarter where the dlineman for the Steelers jumped and they didn’t call the penalty. 
 

Josh thought Offside on both. 

 

I think you are right.

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, is that what was going on on that 4th and 8 bomb to Davis, Josh thought it was a free play?

Yes, that was my impression as well. 
 

After the play he was motioning that there was an Offside. That happened twice during the game… I don’t remember the exact situation for the 2nd instance. 
 

 

[Wiz]

McDermott is an arrogant, not too smart, pr&ck. Don’t see him ever leading a super bowl team.   

[CEN-CAL17]

45 minutes ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

Yup. Morse thought the guy jumped because the dline shifted and he snapped the ball. Similar to the play at the end of the third quarter where the dlineman for the Steelers jumped and they didn’t call the penalty. 
 

Josh thought Offside on both. 

Crazy thing is you give Bass the opportunity for 47, 48 yard FGs which he makes easily. Like 3/4 the way up the posts that would be good from 60. But for some reason 53 is out of the question.

 

For god sake, he made a 50 yd FG with no step!!! 

[Stenbar]

This is and has been my biggest gripe with McDermott. The timing of the Bills gadget plays are head scratching at best. Allen, has not led his team to wins against bona fide well coached defensive teams at all. When you have third and one, and you are up three to zero, you get the first down, Allen should be running up to the line, and snapping the ball on the first sound, and ram his giant 6ft plus frame for the yard. End of story. And then they not only did not do that once, but three times. It is beyond stupidity.  When the defense has good personnel and make Allen throw underneath, he has the deer in the head lights look every freaking time. He has not and it is my opinion, he will  never be able to defeat this defensive strategy. It is not in his capability. So it is on the coaching staff to keep him out of that spot. Instead, when we play teams that employ that defense, our offensive decision makers pee down their leg every freaking time. They are not helping Josh at all. And that is on our coaching staff. 

[JGMcD2]

15 minutes ago, Wiz said:

McDermott is an arrogant, not too smart, pr&ck. Don’t see him ever leading a super bowl team.   

Where does this come from? 
 

Other than out of left field…

Edited September 13, 2021 by JGMcD2

[Ethan in Cleveland]

McD is coaching in the wrong era. 53 yard FG is not a big deal even outdoors. Perfect kicking conditions. Bass is a weapon. Need to take advantage of it.