What I did and didn't like vs Steelers

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

What I liked:

1. Run defense

2. Secondary play in 1st half

3. McKenzie's return work.

4. Devin Singletary

 

What I didn't like:

1. Levi Wallace. Need I say more?

2. The OL. I know Pittsburgh's front 7 is among the best, but our guys were getting beat too often. Ford continues to be a real liability.

3. Josh. No, I'm not saying he's garbage, but his accuracy and decision making were off today. Hopefully he'll bounce back quickly. Also, I blame the coaches as well as Josh for all the fumbles. He simply refuses to protect the ball even in heavy traffic. He looks so nonchalant about it. He can do much better there, but there's no reason I can think of that the coaches shouldn't be drilling this into his head. It's entirely mental. He's perfectly capable of squeezing the ball to his body and covering it up. He just doesn't do it.

4. Pass rush: It wasn't terrible, but the young DE's need to start contributing.

 

It's not time to panic by a long shot, but that was ugly. What's your list of good and bad?

 

LIked:

1. Knox deserves a little shout-out.  It’s not all-pro level, but 4 receptions on 4 targets for 41 yards is his best combination of catch % and yardage as a pro

If he can perform like this every week we could have something.

2. Taron Johnson.  I thought he had a hell of a game.  Led the team with 7 tackles and seemed as though he was always around the ball

3. Lil’ Dirty.  That little bugger is tough, man - “questionable to return” next thing I know he’s out there 

4. Levi Wallace.  Yeah, that OPI (in his post-game, could tell McD was pissed about that) but I thought he made some good plays.  And if you can like Devin Singletary despite his miscues, I can call out that Wallace did some good things

 

DIslike

1. Devin Singletary.  Yes, he ran well, and he caught 3 passes one of which was a tough catch ink traffic, but he also had 2 fumbles.  No Bueno.  Unacceptable

2. That blocked punt.  We can not have that.  It looks to me as though someone missed a guy who got through.  But whatever the root cause, that simply can’t happen.  We keep a lot of players on the roster for their special teams contributions.  When much is given, much is expected.

3. The OL.  McD in his presser said “adjustments have to be made”.  We’ll see what that means.

4. Brian Daboll.  McD was asked in his presser about the playcall on 4th and 1 and about the need to get the running backs more involved in the game, and said “I have to do better”.  Well, someone has to do better

 

The fumble when Josh ran was poor ball handling combined with lack of awareness of the tackler catching him.  He had similar runs where he didn’t fumble but was waving the ball around like a loaf of bread.  Those are bad and need to be addressed - NOW.

 

The fumble where he was hit from behind by Watt, most QB lose that.  The difference is I think the best veterans throw the ball away there, as Josh did later in the game.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

This is a joke but I think he has too many weapons 🤣 seems like he diagnoses oh man I'm gonna have diggs or Davis or sanders etc open on this deep cross if I just buy myself another split second and passes up a lot of the underneath stuff that would move the chains in a couple games every year 

 

I think there could be some truth to this

[Nelius]

Everything about that blocked punt was a mess. Not a fan of Haack right now. I know the line did him zero favors and Killibrew basically went through untouched, but he looked so slow on that punt. Incredibly slow. I'm watching the replay right now and he's completely oblivious to the chaos unfolding around him.

 

Credit to Knox and Gabe Davis on the offensive side, and Hyde, Poyer, Edmunds, Milano, and Johnson on Defense. Team MVP goes to Bass today.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

LIked:

1. Knox deserves a little shout-out.  It’s not all-pro level, but 4 receptions on 4 targets for 41 yards is his best combination of catch % and yardage as a pro

If he can perform like this every week we could have something.

2. Taron Johnson.  I thought he had a hell of a game.  Led the team with 7 tackles and seemed as though he was always around the ball

3. Lil’ Dirty.  That little bugger is tough, man - “questionable to return” next thing I know he’s out there 

4. Levi Wallace.  Yeah, that OPI (in his post-game, could tell McD was pissed about that) but I thought he made some good plays.  And if you can like Devin Singletary despite his miscues, I can call out that Wallace did some good things

 

DIslike

1. Devin Singletary.  Yes, he ran well, and he caught 3 passes one of which was a tough catch ink traffic, but he also had 2 fumbles.  No Bueno.  Unacceptable

2. That blocked punt.  We can not have that.  It looks to me as though someone missed a guy who got through.  But whatever the root cause, that simply can’t happen.  We keep a lot of players on the roster for their special teams contributions.  When much is given, much is expected.

3. The OL.  McD in his presser said “adjustments have to be made”.  We’ll see what that means.

4. Brian Daboll.  McD was asked in his presser about the playcall on 4th and 1 and about the need to get the running backs more involved in the game, and said “I have to do better”.  Well, someone has to do better

 

The fumble when Josh ran was poor ball handling combined with lack of awareness of the tackler catching him.  He had similar runs where he didn’t fumble but was waving the ball around like a loaf of bread.  Those are bad and need to be addressed - NOW.

 

The fumble where he was hit from behind by Watt, most QB lose that.  The difference is I think the best veterans throw the ball away there, as Josh did later in the game.

 

 

 

I think there could be some truth to this

Yep it's the common denominator in all the losses.  He doesn't typically force the ball into tight coverages anymore except on those few times he thought he had free plays but he will pass up some 4-5 yard gains looking for more and teams rely on him doing that to win.  Cowboys had a similar strategy of completely foregoing the run against the bucs to not play to the strengths of their front 7 but dak did a better job of taking what he was given 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Everything about that blocked punt was a mess. Not a fan of Haack right now. I know the line did him zero favors and Killibrew basically went through untouched, but he looked so slow on that punt. Incredibly slow. I'm watching the replay right now and he's completely oblivious to the chaos unfolding around him.

 

I’ve never punted - have you?  but it seems possible to me that the punter must focus 100% on catching the snap and drop-kicking, and can’t afford to be distracted by what’s going on around him.  I thought that’s why roughing the kicker and running into the kicker are big penalties, and why the ‘personal protector’ is a specific role on special teams

 

Especially if the snap was low (which some people have said) it seems to me Haack has to be oblivious to what’s around him.

 

That said, if he’s slow as people say, that’s not a good sign for a team that plays NEx2 and MIAx2.

 

 

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I’ve never punted - have you?  but it seems possible to me that the punter must focus 100% on catching the snap and drop-kicking, and can’t afford to be distracted by what’s going on around him.  I thought that’s why roughing the kicker and running into the kicker are big penalties, and why the ‘personal protector’ is a specific role on special teams

 

Especially if the snap was low (which some people have said) it seems to me Haack has to be oblivious to what’s around him.

 

That said, if he’s slow as people say, that’s not a good sign for a team that plays NEx2 and MIAx2.

 

 

 

No never punted but I agree about the laser like focus you're right, but if the guy is slow or simply doesn't know how to speed up his approach when things are collapsing while maintaining that focus then that seems like an issue. I don't know, he looks pretty bad on replay and people were already discussing it before this game so it's something that's on my radar now. Haack's ability aside, that was a total ST collapse - the replay is almost comical - so in general that blocked punt is near the top of my what I didn't like list.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

No never punted but I agree about the laser like focus you're right, but if the guy is slow or simply doesn't know how to speed up his approach when things are collapsing while maintaining that focus then that seems like an issue. I don't know, he looks pretty bad on replay and people were already discussing it before this game so it's something that's on my radar now. Haack's ability aside, that was a total ST collapse - the replay is almost comical - so in general that blocked punt is near the top of my what I didn't like list.

 

I guess my point is that, if the punter has to be 100% locked in on the ball and the motion of catching dropping and kicking, how is he suppose to perceive that “things are collapsing”?

 

Whether overall he’s slow, is kind of another issue - he has 305 punts and this is like his 3rd blocked punt (2nd on the books, maybe he has a couple more) so it hasn’t appeared to be an issue

[Nelius]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I guess my point is that, if the punter has to be 100% locked in on the ball and the motion of catching dropping and kicking, how is he suppose to perceive that “things are collapsing”?

 

I mean how do you not? I've regularly seen punters try to switch things up when things collapse, although it often results in panic, granted. I would want my punter to be able to adjust to situations, I don't think they're supposed to be so robotic that they slowly ignore a dude running straight at them and blocking their punt. You can't focus but also have situational awareness?

[Norcalbillsfan]

6 hours ago, GreggTX said:

What I liked:

1. Run defense

2. Secondary play in 1st half

3. McKenzie's return work.

4. Devin Singletary

 

What I didn't like:

1. Levi Wallace. Need I say more?

2. The OL. I know Pittsburgh's front 7 is among the best, but our guys were getting beat too often. Ford continues to be a real liability.

3. Josh. No, I'm not saying he's garbage, but his accuracy and decision making were off today. Hopefully he'll bounce back quickly. Also, I blame the coaches as well as Josh for all the fumbles. He simply refuses to protect the ball even in heavy traffic. He looks so nonchalant about it. He can do much better there, but there's no reason I can think of that the coaches shouldn't be drilling this into his head. It's entirely mental. He's perfectly capable of squeezing the ball to his body and covering it up. He just doesn't do it.

4. Pass rush: It wasn't terrible, but the young DE's need to start contributing.

 

It's not time to panic by a long shot, but that was ugly. What's your list of good and bad?

I like alot of your points. The ball handling by josh continues to scare me, disciplined defenses are going to exploit that.

I will say I actually liked the work from our young D ends. They collapsed the pocket quickly. And Pittsburgh got away with many holding penalties today. Even so big ben gets the ball out so quick he's tough to sack. Stats wise it wasn't great pass rush but I'm excited for the future.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dayman said:

This is the one saving grace. Our defense played well and yet Daboll went 5 wide all day and let the best pass rush in football tee off on our guys. Hopefully he can do better.

 

However, the bad part is at times that pressure was with 3 guys. In which case there is nothing Daboll can do.

 

 

As I responded to Happless...........they can solve it by using a RB in the backfield and/or extra blockers.

 

Josh Allen likes to hold the football............3 pass rushers will get to him in an empty backfield set from time to time if he holds the football the way he does when he has 11 or 12 personnel on the field on the field.

 

You wanna' move the football in 5 wide you gotta' be willing and able to dink and dunk............holding the ball for 4 seconds before throwing isn't congruent with that style.

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

55 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As I responded to Happless...........they can solve it by using a RB in the backfield and/or extra blockers.

 

Josh Allen likes to hold the football............3 pass rushers will get to him in an empty backfield set from time to time if he holds the football the way he does when he has 11 or 12 personnel on the field on the field.

 

You wanna' move the football in 5 wide you gotta' be willing and able to dink and dunk............holding the ball for 4 seconds before throwing isn't congruent with that style.

 

Very true I think he has to be more willing to take those short gains...I will defend going 4 and 5 wide to the death when the steelers have two great dbs and a great front seven then a bunch of average dudes in the secondary after that though 🤣 I think daboll is taking some of the heat on this board that should be going towards allen because he called that horrifically executed hb pass on 4th down lol

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

As I responded to Happless...........they can solve it by using a RB in the backfield and/or extra blockers.

 

Josh Allen likes to hold the football............3 pass rushers will get to him in an empty backfield set from time to time if he holds the football the way he does when he has 11 or 12 personnel on the field on the field.

 

You wanna' move the football in 5 wide you gotta' be willing and able to dink and dunk............holding the ball for 4 seconds before throwing isn't congruent with that style.

 

Well, there's a reason why the Bills ran (1,1) the most last season.

 

But if we're going to keep a running back and a TE in to block....it had better be one who can actually block, like Moss.

 

I assume you were at the game and had a more consistent viewpoint, but in a couple plays that stood out to me (like 4th and 8 where Dawkins got put on skates), Singletary looked clueless.  Were there plays you noted where Singletary was in to block and did so capably?

 

13 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Very true I think he has to be more willing to take those short gains...I will defend going 4 and 5 wide to the death when the steelers have two great dbs and a great front seven then a bunch of average dudes in the secondary after that though 🤣 I think daboll is taking some of the heat on this board that should be going towards allen because he called that horrifically executed hb pass on 4th down lol

 

Joe B already has a detailed article up on The Athletic with a lot of data

 

 

I don't remember the set on that deep pass to Sanders, but BadOl has a point that to buy the QB time for a deep pass to develop, max protect may be needed.

There may have been some missed opportunities on those 9 5wr or those 26 4wr plays or those 2 2 wr plays  that would have swung the stats. 

 

But Joe B. is right - objectively, the results from 5wr and 4wr scheme suggest that, as Daboll has said about "balance", it wasn't working, and when it's not working they need to do more of the this and less of that.   So you might want to re-think that "defend to the death" policy.

 

Unless you're actually Brian Daboll, in which case you're just explaining why we saw what we saw.  In which case, you might still want to re-think that "defend to the death" thing.

 

(1,1) was our bread-and-butter last year and it may be this year as well.

[Rhode Island Red]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, there's a reason why the Bills ran (1,1) the most last season.

 

But if we're going to keep a running back and a TE in to block....it had better be one who can actually block, like Moss.

 

I assume you were at the game and had a more consistent viewpoint, but in a couple plays that stood out to me (like 4th and 8 where Dawkins got put on skates), Singletary looked clueless.  Were there plays you noted where Singletary was in to block and did so capably?

 

 

Joe B already has a detailed article up on The Athletic with a lot of data

 

 

I don't remember the set on that deep pass to Sanders, but BadOl has a point that to buy the QB time for a deep pass to develop, max protect may be needed.

There may have been some missed opportunities on those 9 5wr or those 26 4wr plays or those 2 2 wr plays  that would have swung the stats. 

 

But Joe B. is right - objectively, the results from 5wr and 4wr scheme suggest that, as Daboll has said about "balance", it wasn't working, and when it's not working they need to do more of the this and less of that.   So you might want to re-think that "defend to the death" policy.

 

Unless you're actually Brian Daboll, in which case you're just explaining why we saw what we saw.  In which case, you might still want to re-think that "defend to the death" thing.

 

(1,1) was our bread-and-butter last year and it may be this year as well.

How you mean (1,1)???

 

aka, what the heyho is (1,1)??

 

or, it’s late and I really don’t understand what you mean by (1,1)?

 

or, I’m really tired of typing all those parentheses, etc…..

 

EDIT: is that just “11 personnel” in parentheses-speak???

On 1/20/2021 at 12:18 PM, NewEra said:

Lol.  No I’m not making this Stills vs Davis.  I’m just stating facts.

 

davis is hurt

 

if Davis doesn’t play, stills might replace his spot on the active roster.

 

I would like the Wr that replaces that Davis to be able to run the routes that Davis runs, in order to keep Diggs, Brown Beasley and Mckenzies routes the same and not change up everyone’s plays because still is pigeonholed into the only route he can run well, the go route

 

To recap-  still would be replacing Davis—-that’s where the comparison comes into play. 
 

that’ll do it for me on this waste of time subject. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, there's a reason why the Bills ran (1,1) the most last season.

 

But if we're going to keep a running back and a TE in to block....it had better be one who can actually block, like Moss.

 

I assume you were at the game and had a more consistent viewpoint, but in a couple plays that stood out to me (like 4th and 8 where Dawkins got put on skates), Singletary looked clueless.  Were there plays you noted where Singletary was in to block and did so capably?

 

 

Joe B already has a detailed article up on The Athletic with a lot of data

 

 

I don't remember the set on that deep pass to Sanders, but BadOl has a point that to buy the QB time for a deep pass to develop, max protect may be needed.

There may have been some missed opportunities on those 9 5wr or those 26 4wr plays or those 2 2 wr plays  that would have swung the stats. 

 

But Joe B. is right - objectively, the results from 5wr and 4wr scheme suggest that, as Daboll has said about "balance", it wasn't working, and when it's not working they need to do more of the this and less of that.   So you might want to re-think that "defend to the death" policy.

 

Unless you're actually Brian Daboll, in which case you're just explaining why we saw what we saw.  In which case, you might still want to re-think that "defend to the death" thing.

 

(1,1) was our bread-and-butter last year and it may be this year as well.

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Rhode Island Red

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Nelius said:

Everything about that blocked punt was a mess. Not a fan of Haack right now. I know the line did him zero favors and Killibrew basically went through untouched, but he looked so slow on that punt. Incredibly slow. I'm watching the replay right now and he's completely oblivious to the chaos unfolding around him.

 

Credit to Knox and Gabe Davis on the offensive side, and Hyde, Poyer, Edmunds, Milano, and Johnson on Defense. Team MVP goes to Bass today.

 

Correct on Haack. Yes the protection failed but because of how long it takes him to get his kick off any failure ahead of him means disaster. In the first half the Steelers protection failed and the Bills got pressure on Harvin but he still got his punt away. We saw it once in pre-season where there was a pressure and he skewed it 20 yards and then today where it leads to points against. He is a problem IMO. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

All I know is that we have glaring weaknesses on the OL which I do not think we can hide in the big end of season games. The DL is also a work in progress.

 

Everyone else gets a mulligan.

 

It's how we respond next week which will reveal our true depth of character. Way too early to hit the panic button.

[just1hugheser]

Against good teams and in the playoffs it all comes down to the 'dudes' and the Bills have no dudes on their offensive line with maybe the only exception being a fully healthy Dawkins, other than that our Oline is journeymen/undersized technical players.  We have no dominant(physically or technically) offensive linemen and it will show up in the regular season against front 7's like this and if we make the playoffs it will definitely be exposed there.