9/12/2021 Steelers @ Bills Post Game thread

[Governor]

41 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Did anyone else think this looked EXACTLY like Rookie Josh, instead of $250m Josh? Wild, unreliable, taking off on too many runs. 

Nah. I saw a completely different game. Nice clean pockets for him to step up into 6-8 times. That’s a first! 
 

Bad Josh was the 1st half of last year’s Steelers game.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Governor

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Belichick scribbling notes as we speak. In a copycat league this is the kind of stuff that needs to be cleaned up no doubt. But during the Bills TD drive in particular it seemed like we had the Steelers on their heels with the pace of play call and forcing them to play out of their rhythm—included the 12 man penalty on that drive IIRC?

Yea I think we get a lot of information presnap by spreading out the d with 4 wr sets and Josh just wasn't getting enough time to go through progressions...the optimist in me wants to say the steelers unveiled something that caught us by surprise that we will be ready for in the future and we still couldve had the win despite that 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Isn’t that pretty much what the Chiefs did that gave us fits?

 

 

I think Tampa’s pretty good

Now that you mention it I believe you are right. The Chiefs would move Chris Jones around after the protection seemed to be called

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, par73 said:

In the playoffs, Allen and the offense struggled.

On D, pass rush was an issue all year-- as it was in the 2nd half today.

This was another one of those things I've commented in 40 threads so I might have said this here before lol but our receivers were all seriously injured for the playoffs so I'm not sure what the steelers did and what was happening to our offense in the playoffs is the same

[Cheektowaga Chad]

11 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Belichick scribbling notes as we speak. In a copycat league this is the kind of stuff that needs to be cleaned up no doubt. But during the Bills TD drive in particular it seemed like we had the Steelers on their heels with the pace of play call and forcing them to play out of their rhythm—included the 12 man penalty on that drive IIRC?

The pace on that drive a long with actually handing the ball off multiple times really threw the steelers for a loop

[HappyDays]

33 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Did anyone else think this looked EXACTLY like Rookie Josh, instead of $250m Josh? Wild, unreliable, taking off on too many runs. 

 

Go back and watch a rookie Josh Allen game. Even on his off days now he is in a different stratosphere from that. The TD pass alone showed better anticipation than any throw he had in 2018 and 2019.

 

Allen had less than stellar games last year too. We were spoiled by his play in the last month of the regular season when we witnessed nearly perfect QB play. He had relatively poor days against the Jets, Chargers, Cardinals, and Chiefs last year. He still had an MVP worthy season. I am confident he will show that level of play again this year.

 

There isn't a QB in the league that is successful against 4 man rushes that get consistent pressure. That's the book on how to beat Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers. It isn't rocket science. If you can drop every possible player into coverage and still get to the QB you are going to severely limit the offense's opportunities. The margin of error becomes razor thin.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Yea I think we get a lot of information presnap by spreading out the d with 4 wr sets and Josh just wasn't getting enough time to go through progressions...the optimist in me wants to say the steelers unveiled something that caught us by surprise that we will be ready for in the future and we still couldve had the win despite that 

 

I think you’re correct on both counts (about the information by spreading the D, and about the lack of time for progressions)

 

That said

If there isn’t enough time to go through progressions, adjustments have to be made and take the quick check down.

 

Or run.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think you’re correct on both counts (about the information by spreading the D, and about the lack of time for progressions)

 

That said

If there isn’t enough time to go through progressions, adjustments have to be made and take the quick check down.

Yep he could have done a better job at that no question

[LABILLBACKER]

31 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I hope so.  Tough game to start with, no doubt - especially having beaten them the last two years. 
 

My biggest worry is that this game looked exactly like the KC/TENN games from last year.  
 

Sometimes good teams just don’t show up, but we have a similar “look” in all our recent losses.   They all feature a 3rd Quarter swoon, Allen under siege and a lack of adjustments. 
 

 

What is it about our coaching staff glaring inability to make halftime adjustments or get their team fired up in the 3rd quarter. Belichick usually makes adjustments drive to drive. By the time Daboll and McD react to something it's too late.

[Norcalbillsfan]

I'm already loving all the "bills overrated" talk. Any body remember what team and qb looked like absolute garbage week 1 last year? I welcome the trash talking, bills play better as under dogs.

[Process]

I mean, this is just a pathetic block attempt by Dawkins. Wow. 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Joe B pointed this out in his post-game recap on The Athletic. We ran 4 WR sets on 33.3% of our snaps today, and 5 WR sets on 11.5% of our snaps. On 4 WR sets we gained just 4.69 yards per play; on 5 WR sets we gained -0.22 yards per play. No that negative sign is not a typo. Every defensive coordinator in the NFL knows that's what we want our offense to be and Tomlin has had a whole offseason to prepare for it.

 

@Chandler#81

@CSBill

@Sammy Watkins' Rib

 

Y'all still disagree about the empty backfield/5 wide approach turning your offense into dink-and-dunk?

 

 

@GunnerBill said he disagreed to an extent because in theory the Bills would have a matchup advantage against the extra DB's.........but as evidenced today the reality is that the lack of time to throw and the congestion of the field consistently negates the perceived "on paper" individual matchup edge.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Process said:

I mean, this is just a pathetic block attempt by Dawkins. Wow. 

 

 

 

Oh *****, that was a freakin’ Hospital Throw to Davis.  Yikes.  But that’s also a total Block Fail by Dawkins.

In addition, Singletary (I think) is totally clueless about who to block, as most of the line is pushed back behind him.

 

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

@Chandler#81

@CSBill

@Sammy Watkins' Rib

 

Y'all still disagree about the empty backfield/5 wide approach turning your offense into dink-and-dunk?

 

 

@GunnerBill said he disagreed to an extent because in theory the Bills would have a matchup advantage against the extra DB's.........but as evidenced today the reality is that the lack of time to throw and the congestion of the field consistently negates the perceived "on paper" individual matchup edge.

 

I don’t think it’s disputable that it didn’t work today

And it appears my eyes weren’t misleading me in thinking it was employed excessively

 

That said

The Bills used it the second-most in the league last year (15% 4 WR sets) and had an excellent offense most of the year

One wonders why they would do so, if it’s intrinsically ineffective

 

It’s certainly gonna be ineffective when your OL can’t block at all against 3 and 4 DL rush

 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh *****, that was a freakin’ Hospital Throw to Davis.  Yikes.

 

It was? I see a perfect pass that hit him in both hands, and the catch would have taken him right to the ground where he wouldn't have taken a nasty hit. And wasn't this the 4th and 9? Either throw it within 2 seconds of the snap or get sacked by Ingram. This is the kind of play I'm talking about when people say Allen looked like rookie Allen today. Rookie Allen would have tried to spin out of an Ingram sack, stiff armed Watt, then thrown an easy pick back across his body. 2021 Allen recognizes the free rusher and throws a perfect ball to the only receiver who had a chance of making the play. Unfortunately the play had to be rushed so I recognize that it would have been a tough catch but the play was there to be made. I'm also 90% sure Allen thought the Steelers had jumped Offside and considered this a free play.

Edited September 13, 2021 by HappyDays

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It was? I see a perfect pass that hit him in both hands, and the catch would have taken him right to the ground where he wouldn't have taken a nasty hit. And wasn't this the 4th and 9? Either throw it within 2 seconds of the snap or get sacked by Ingram. This is the kind of play I'm talking about when people say Allen looked like rookie Allen today. Rookie Allen would have tried to spin out of an Ingram sack, stiff armed Watt, then thrown an easy pick back across his body. 2021 Allen recognizes the free rusher and throws a perfect ball to the only receiver who had a chance of making the play. Unfortunately the play had to be rushed so I recognize that it would have been a tough catch but the play was there to be made. I'm also 90% sure Allen thought the Steelers had jumped Offside and considered this a free play.

 

Fair.

 

And yes, that was 4th and 8 where Allen pretty clearly thought he had a free play

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I don’t think it’s disputable that it didn’t work today

And it appears my eyes weren’t misleading me in thinking it was employed excessively

 

That said

The Bills used it the second-most in the league last year (15% 4 WR sets) and had an excellent offense most of the year

One wonders why they would do so, if it’s intrinsically ineffective

 

It’s certainly gonna be ineffective when your OL can’t block at all against 3 and 4 DL rush

 

 

 

They ran more 11 than anything and were very productive at it but if I recall correctly they were most explosive in the pass game out of 12 personnel.

 

Time (to throw) and space(to get open).  

 

The concept works the same way with the running game............when you overload the line of scrimmage with blockers you really don't make yourself more effective running the football........there is a tipping point where you over-congest the LOS,  give your RB nowhere to run and make it so unlikely that you will pass that it allows the defense to sell out for the run.

 

Empty backfield is that point in the passing game.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They ran more 11 than anything and were very productive at it but if I recall correctly they were most explosive in the pass game out of 12 personnel.

 

Time (to throw) and space(to get open).  

 

The concept works the same way with the running game............when you overload the line of scrimmage with blockers you really don't make yourself more effective running the football........there is a tipping point where you over-congest the LOS,  give your RB nowhere to run and make it so unlikely that you will pass that it allows the defense to sell out for the run.

 

Empty backfield is that point in the passing game.

 

How do you measure "most explosive" and where do you find the numbers?

 

I mostly remember us running (1,2) near the goal line with a lot of block/leak out plays, but looking it up on Sharp, we ran 8% (91) plays out of that formation last season, which must be more than the goal line.

 

[CircleTheWagons99]

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh *****, that was a freakin’ Hospital Throw to Davis.  Yikes.  But that’s also a total Block Fail by Dawkins.

In addition, Singletary (I think) is totally clueless about who to block, as most of the line is pushed back behind him.

 

 

I don’t think it’s disputable that it didn’t work today

And it appears my eyes weren’t misleading me in thinking it was employed excessively

 

That said

The Bills used it the second-most in the league last year (15% 4 WR sets) and had an excellent offense most of the year

One wonders why they would do so, if it’s intrinsically ineffective

 

It’s certainly gonna be ineffective when your OL can’t block at all against 3 and 4 DL rush

 

I'm interested in seeing the all22...my suspicion is the steelers masked some areas of the field they were vulnerable with their late shifting and allen had guys open all over the place underneath that he didn't even look at.  I think qb user error was a lot of the reason for the 4wr and 5wr set performance lol I do think he fared much better than rookie allen wouldve though 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Commish]

As Aaron Rogers said yesterday after throwing for 133 yard with two interceptions and no touchdowns: "We played bad. I played bad. Offensively we didn't execute very well. One game. We've got 16 to go."

 

Sucks, but happens to the best of them...