DieHardBillsFan Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, Wizard said: All great insights and points made. Thanks! A couple general thoughts as I read comments. 1. Appreciate those who have the personal historical knowledge to give a player in the 60s, 70s, or early 80s their due as I have seen very little or bits and pieces. 2. Talley was unintentionally left off. My bad. He would replace Milano. 3. I found the notable cuts list to be getting so large and demanding that I left off or removed names from the notable list. Great counters and points in replies. 4. Players were not put into a depth chart, per se. I would have Cookie as my FB/3rd down option or #3 overall in his position group. 5. So much depth at all positions in team history, however, I honestly thought about not have a TE on my team at all. Curious to see your team and comments. Go ahead and make the change. Just show the corrections so people see you changed it. Definitely Talley on there! Also Travis Henry over FredEx. We love him, but that would be like putting Fitz on here.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 I'd have put the guy the K gun was named for Keith McKeller on the 53, maybe cut one lineman. How can you leave the legend of Kiko off the all time roster?? 1
chris heff Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 6 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Oh man, this will be tough. Let me give it a shot: QB: Kelly, Kemp RB: Simpson, Thomas, Gilchrist FB: Braxton WR: Reed, Moulds, Butler, Diggs, Dubenion, Tasker OL: Wasn’t Gilchrist a FB?
Kelly the Dog Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, chris heff said: Wasn’t Gilchrist a FB? Yep. In general, in 1963 Ed Rutkowski of all people, then a rookie, was the main RB. In 64, it was Bobby Smith. Gilchrist was the fullback but the main ball carrier and threat. Just a great player. 1
JohnBonhamRocks Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) QB - Kelly, Allen HB - Simpson, Thomas, McCoy, Lynch, Cribbs, Jackson FB - Gilchrist TE - Metzelaars, Riemersma WR - Reed, Diggs, Moulds, Lofton, Evans, Tasker OT - Peters, Barber, Wolford, Devlin OG - Shaw, DeLamielleure, Richter, McKenzie C - Hull, Wood DT - Smerlas, T. Washington, P. Washington, P. Williams DE - Smith, Hansen, Schobel, Hughes, Williams LB - Bennett, Talley, Spikes, Conlan CB - White, Odomes, Clements, Winfield, Byrd, McGee S - Saimes, Jones, Kelso, Byrd K - Christie P - Moorman LS - Dorenbos Edited September 6, 2021 by JohnBonhamRocks
oldmanfan Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 32 minutes ago, chris heff said: Wasn’t Gilchrist a FB? He and Wray Carleton flip flopped a bit. Cookie was my Bettis type RB.
chris heff Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He and Wray Carleton flip flopped a bit. Cookie was my Bettis type RB. But technically he was listed as a FB, however it was a different position in those days. Kelly the Dog is right about who the HBs were on those teams.
oldmanfan Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 1 minute ago, chris heff said: But technically he was listed as a FB, however it was a different position in those days. Kelly the Dog is right about who the HBs were on those teams. It’s my team, I’ll pick who I want. I watched those teams and Cookie was a fantastic runner. 2
chris heff Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It’s my team, I’ll pick who I want. I watched those teams and Cookie was a fantastic runner. That’s when I became a fan, Cookie was an angry runner and a big man. Jim Brown was also listed as a FB, different era.
oldmanfan Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, chris heff said: That’s when I became a fan, Cookie was an angry runner and a big man. Jim Brown was also listed as a FB, different era. Absolutely. I wish some of the younger folks here would have gotten the opportunity to watch the AFL teams.
BearNorth Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 When he was so motivated Cookie was a phenomenal blocker. Remember he was the size of most of the Offensive Tackles in the league at the time. I remember watching him run for 243 yards in a game on a field that today would be called unplayable.
sherpa Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) Any list that does not have Robert James as the primo CB is not informed. He wasn't just a shut down CB, he was a shut out CB. Teams simply did not throw his way. In my view, here are the musts: Robert James OJ Simpson Mike Stratton Bruce Smith Tom Sestak Thurman Thomas Kelly, Josh Allen Cookie Gilchrist Joe DeLamielleure Kent Hull Billy Shaw Andre Reed Steve Christie Special consideration Steve Tasker Guys who have been mentioned that should not be: Stew Barber Don Beebe Edited September 6, 2021 by sherpa 4 1
Kelly the Dog Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, sherpa said: Any list that does not have Robert James as the primo CB is not informed. He wasn't just a shut down CB, he was a shut out CB. Teams simply did not throw his way. In my view, here are the musts: Robert James OJ Simpson Mike Stratton Bruce Smith Tom Sestak Thurman Thomas Kelly, Josh Allen Cookie Gilchrist Joe DeLamielleure Kent Hull Billy Shaw Andre Reed Steve Christie Special consideration Steve Tasker Guys who have been mentioned that should not be: Stew Barber Don Beebe Yeah there were entire games teams didn’t throw one pass Robert James’ way. Fans around the league didn’t even know much about him because you would watch a Bills game and never hear his name mentioned. He was that good. Sucks injuries cut his career in half.
sherpa Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: Yeah there were entire games teams didn’t throw one pass Robert James’ way. Fans around the league didn’t even know much about him because you would watch a Bills game and never hear his name mentioned. He was that good. Sucks injuries cut his career in half. You must have seen those games, as I did. As a kid, at the stadium, I would watch his matchup and they would always go to the other side of the field. 1
Bob in STL Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Wizard said: With 50+ years of AFL and NFL history and probably 1,500 or so players that have represented the Bills in a game, who would be your all-time 53 man roster? You can find my attempt at building what I consider to be the best overall roster. How many quarterbacks do you keep? Which great player gets left off because of positional depth? Is your team represented throughout the decades or does it represent the time you first became a fan? Curious to hear your process and all-time team! Resource and Criteria 1. I used this database to help me remember and comb through names…https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/buffalo-bills/alltime-roster?letter=B 2. My Criteria for choosing players was based on 4 things The player spent 2 or more years on the roster I picked players I thought would be quality players regardless of era or football rules. These players would fill their role well in any era. Position mattered. I was looking for my best team. I would rather have that 6th CB over say my 8th top RB in Bills history. I tried to look at what the player did as a Buffalo Bill and not based on what they may have done before or after their time with Bills. Offense (26) QB: Allen, Kelly RB: Simpson, Thomas, McCoy, F. Jackson, C. Gilchrist WR: Reed, Diggs, Lofton, Moulds, Evans, Beebe, Tasker TE: Metzelaars, Riemersma OT: Peters, Ballard, Fina, Wolford, Glenn (G/T) OG: Joe Delamielleure, R. Brown, Shaw C. Hull, Wood Special Teams (2) K. Christie P. Moorman ST: Tasker/T. McGhee (both listed on offense or defense unit) Defense (25) DE: Bruce Smith, Paup, Hughes, M. Williams, P. Hansen DT: S. Adams, Smerlas, K. Williams, T. Washington, P. Williams LB: Bennett, Conlan, Fletcher, Milano, Spikes CB/DB: N. Clements, A. Winfield, T. White, “Gilmore Girl”, T. McGhee, Odomes FS/SS: B. Byrd, H. Jones, Poyer, Hyde My Last 10 Cuts Ferguson, MaGuire, Edwards, Schobel, Lynch, K. Davis, Beasley, Dawkins, Richter, M. Patton Notable Defense Cuts: Handful of DB’s (tempted to keep Ko Simpson. He’s worth millions.), Cunningham, Edwards, Haslett, Guidry, Stratton, Patton, MaGuire,Dunaway, Kadish , P. C. Kelsay, Schobel, Jeffcoat Notable Offense Cuts: Joe Ferguson, Frank Reich, Marshawn Lynch, K. Davis, Henry, McGahee, Beasley, Owens (1 year), Watkins, K. McKellar, B. Rolle, C. Dawkins, R. McKenzie, Ritcher, Parker, Bemiller, Grant, Morse Notable ST Cuts: Lindell, Bass, C. Mohr What’s your team all-time Bills team? Let’s Go Buffalo! Good effort but not enough knowkedge of the great 60’s and 70’s players. You don’t even mention Tom Sestak, the best DT in the AFL, far better than Dunaway, injuries cut his career short? He led our defense to two AFL championships. Corner Booker Edgerson was a shut down CB. Butch Byrd was not a safety but George Saimes was. No Ernie Warlich mention. Elbert Dubenion.? Robert James? Ron McDole? From the 70’s what about Jerry Butler? Better than many in later era. Edited September 6, 2021 by Bob in STL
BearNorth Posted September 6, 2021 Posted September 6, 2021 Re: All time Kicker, that is a close call. Lindell played 10 seasons 152 games, made 83.3% of his FG's, and Missed ONE of his 306 XP attempts. Christie Played 9 seasons 144 games, made 78.3% of his FG's and Missed four of 313 XP attempts. For Lindell to be that consistent during the playoff drought is remarkable. Tough to compare TB% on Kickoffs since the league has messed around with the kickoff spot over the years.
Beast Posted September 7, 2021 Posted September 7, 2021 QB: Kelly, Allen RB: Simpson, Thomas, Cribbs FB: Gilchrist WR: Reed, Diggs, Moulds, Dubenion, Lofton, Butler TE: Warlick, McKeller, Metzelaars T: Wolford, Peters, Ballard, Devlin G: Shaw, Joe D., Brown, McKenzie C-Hull, Montler K- Christie Defense to come.
mannc Posted September 7, 2021 Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, cwater10 said: QB: Kelly, Allen RB: Thomas, Simpson, Gilchrist, Cribbs FB: Braxton OL: Wolford, McKenzie, Dellamielliure, Shaw, Hull, Ritcher (flex G/C) Ballard WR: Reed, Moulds, Butler, Chandler, Diggs (if eligible) , F Lewis TE: Metzellars, Seymour (blocking), McKellar, Rolle (red zone) DL: Bruce, K Williams, F Smerlas, M Kadish, T Washington, J Hughes, P Hansen, A Schoebel LB: Bennet, Talley, Haslett, Conlan, S Nelson, T Spikes CB: R James, T White, N Odomes, N Clemments, A Winfield, C Romes S: T Greene, B Byrd, H Jones, Saimes, M Hyde (difficult cut: J Nixon) P: Moorman K: Christie ST: Tasker Returns: T McGee (W Francis - Practice Squad) 21 hours ago, Wizard said: With 50+ years of AFL and NFL history and probably 1,500 or so players that have represented the Bills in a game, who would be your all-time 53 man roster? You can find my attempt at building what I consider to be the best overall roster. How many quarterbacks do you keep? Which great player gets left off because of positional depth? Is your team represented throughout the decades or does it represent the time you first became a fan? Curious to hear your process and all-time team! Resource and Criteria 1. I used this database to help me remember and comb through names…https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/buffalo-bills/alltime-roster?letter=B 2. My Criteria for choosing players was based on 4 things The player spent 2 or more years on the roster I picked players I thought would be quality players regardless of era or football rules. These players would fill their role well in any era. Position mattered. I was looking for my best team. I would rather have that 6th CB over say my 8th top RB in Bills history. I tried to look at what the player did as a Buffalo Bill and not based on what they may have done before or after their time with Bills. Offense (26) QB: Allen, Kelly RB: Simpson, Thomas, McCoy, F. Jackson, C. Gilchrist WR: Reed, Diggs, Lofton, Moulds, Evans, Beebe, Tasker TE: Metzelaars, Riemersma OT: Peters, Ballard, Fina, Wolford, Glenn (G/T) OG: Joe Delamielleure, R. Brown, Shaw C. Hull, Wood Special Teams (2) K. Christie P. Moorman ST: Tasker/T. McGhee (both listed on offense or defense unit) Defense (25) DE: Bruce Smith, Paup, Hughes, M. Williams, P. Hansen DT: S. Adams, Smerlas, K. Williams, T. Washington, P. Williams LB: Bennett, Conlan, Fletcher, Milano, Spikes CB/DB: N. Clements, A. Winfield, T. White, “Gilmore Girl”, T. McGhee, Odomes FS/SS: B. Byrd, H. Jones, Poyer, Hyde My Last 10 Cuts Ferguson, MaGuire, Edwards, Schobel, Lynch, K. Davis, Beasley, Dawkins, Richter, M. Patton Notable Defense Cuts: Handful of DB’s (tempted to keep Ko Simpson. He’s worth millions.), Cunningham, Edwards, Haslett, Guidry, Stratton, Patton, MaGuire,Dunaway, Kadish , P. C. Kelsay, Schobel, Jeffcoat Notable Offense Cuts: Joe Ferguson, Frank Reich, Marshawn Lynch, K. Davis, Henry, McGahee, Beasley, Owens (1 year), Watkins, K. McKellar, B. Rolle, C. Dawkins, R. McKenzie, Ritcher, Parker, Bemiller, Grant, Morse Notable ST Cuts: Lindell, Bass, C. Mohr What’s your team all-time Bills team? Let’s Go Buffalo! Sam Cowart (LB) is a glaring omission. And Don Beene? Really? Edited September 7, 2021 by mannc
Sherlock Holmes Posted September 7, 2021 Posted September 7, 2021 21 hours ago, Wizard said: With 50+ years of AFL and NFL history and probably 1,500 or so players that have represented the Bills in a game, who would be your all-time 53 man roster? You can find my attempt at building what I consider to be the best overall roster. How many quarterbacks do you keep? Which great player gets left off because of positional depth? Is your team represented throughout the decades or does it represent the time you first became a fan? Curious to hear your process and all-time team! Resource and Criteria 1. I used this database to help me remember and comb through names…https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/buffalo-bills/alltime-roster?letter=B 2. My Criteria for choosing players was based on 4 things The player spent 2 or more years on the roster I picked players I thought would be quality players regardless of era or football rules. These players would fill their role well in any era. Position mattered. I was looking for my best team. I would rather have that 6th CB over say my 8th top RB in Bills history. I tried to look at what the player did as a Buffalo Bill and not based on what they may have done before or after their time with Bills. Offense (26) QB: Allen, Kelly RB: Simpson, Thomas, McCoy, F. Jackson, C. Gilchrist WR: Reed, Diggs, Lofton, Moulds, Evans, Beebe, Tasker TE: Metzelaars, Riemersma OT: Peters, Ballard, Fina, Wolford, Glenn (G/T) OG: Joe Delamielleure, R. Brown, Shaw C. Hull, Wood Special Teams (2) K. Christie P. Moorman ST: Tasker/T. McGhee (both listed on offense or defense unit) Defense (25) DE: Bruce Smith, Paup, Hughes, M. Williams, P. Hansen DT: S. Adams, Smerlas, K. Williams, T. Washington, P. Williams LB: Bennett, Conlan, Fletcher, Milano, Spikes CB/DB: N. Clements, A. Winfield, T. White, “Gilmore Girl”, T. McGhee, Odomes FS/SS: B. Byrd, H. Jones, Poyer, Hyde My Last 10 Cuts Ferguson, MaGuire, Edwards, Schobel, Lynch, K. Davis, Beasley, Dawkins, Richter, M. Patton Notable Defense Cuts: Handful of DB’s (tempted to keep Ko Simpson. He’s worth millions.), Cunningham, Edwards, Haslett, Guidry, Stratton, Patton, MaGuire,Dunaway, Kadish , P. C. Kelsay, Schobel, Jeffcoat Notable Offense Cuts: Joe Ferguson, Frank Reich, Marshawn Lynch, K. Davis, Henry, McGahee, Beasley, Owens (1 year), Watkins, K. McKellar, B. Rolle, C. Dawkins, R. McKenzie, Ritcher, Parker, Bemiller, Grant, Morse Notable ST Cuts: Lindell, Bass, C. Mohr What’s your team all-time Bills team? Let’s Go Buffalo! Couple notes... Lindell would be my first cut. Also how do you cut Schobel and Beasley? Why no Jabari Greer love? You didn't roster a long snapper...
st pete gogolak Posted September 7, 2021 Posted September 7, 2021 QB - Kelly, Ferguson, Kemp (not leaving off a QB who took us to back-to-back AFL Championships)(Josh will be on this list soon enough, maybe after this year. RB - Simpson, Thomas, Cribbs FB - Gilchrist, Braxton WR - Reed, Dubenion, Butler, Moulds TE - McKellar, Metzelars (what a black hole of a position) (should have drafted Gronk just to add a legitimate name to this list) OL - Devlin, Shaw, Hull, Joe D., Ballard, Wolford, Richter, McKenzie, D. Green (I'm leaving Peters off the list for same reason as leaving Lofton and Lynch off - HOF but mostly for different teams). DL - Bruce, Sestak, T. Washington, McDole, Hughes, P. Williams, Smerlas, Hansen LB - Bennett, Stratton, Spikes, Talley, Haslett, Conlan DB - James, Edgerson, Winfield, Clements, Saimes, T. Greene, H. Jones, Hyde K - Christie P - Moorman LS - one of these guys can learn to snap the ball
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