The Athletic's #1 reason the Bills won't hoist Lombardi (note the final paragraph)

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I had an epiphany once that I should contribute to some guy's personal charity after he pulled a gun on me in an alley.

 

Disregarding everything else, having #1 reason being they are one of the 31 teams above 80% and below 100% as the main cause for not winning? Seriously? This sounds like a reporter with an agenda. I expect better from The Athletic.

I mean, it’s definitely not outside the realm of possibility that we lose a starter for one of the postseason games because of testing positive or being a close contact to a positive case.   Now, will losing that starter cause us to lose the game?  Who knows.  But it is a competitive disadvantage.

 

 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

My question in all of this is how many games did Covid cost us last year, prior to the vaccine release? But we are to believe this year is the year it's going to cost us, because some of the guys didn't get the vaccine? 🤔 There are multiple reasons the Bills might not hoist a Lombardi this year and Covid is nowhere near #1 on that list. 

 

Not because they didn't get the vaccine but because some players weren't following the protocols.  Whether they changed their attitude or not, I do not know. I am not worried about it personally but I would be pissed if players miss games because they are breaking protocols.

 

 I can see it now.  I was pissed about the Titans game last year because they all got to play after obviously breaking protocols multiple times.  It would just be so NFLish our players getting suspended heading into the Titans game.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I am personally vaccinated.  AFAIK, and I could be wrong, you can still get the virus if you are vaccinated.  You can still give someone else the virus if you are vaccinated.  The people that died from the virus likely were not vaccinated because AFAIK that is the main benefit from getting vaxed in the first place is that you are less likely to die.  

 

That is all I am going to say on the subject because I do not know if what I said broke the rules here or not.  If it did I am sorry.  A.so, I am sorry for your losses.  It is a terrible thing.

 

You can still get the virus if you are vaccinated. 

 

The data the NFL has released from intake and preseason testing is that 7x fewer vaccinated players or staff have tested positive than unvaccinated (anyone with any symptoms is tested immediately and must test daily for some period of time):

 

Quote

The released data showed that from Aug. 1-21, 68 players and staff tested positive out of 7,190 tests. The rate of positive tests among the unvaccinated was seven times higher than the rate among the vaccinated.

 

The vaccine reduces, but does not eliminate, the risk of infection. 

 

IMO if there were treatment that had solid studies showing it reduced the risk of a knee injury by 7x or 5x or even 3x, the players would be lining up for it.

 

(It's a judgement call that we're still working out, how much discussion we can allow without it "fanning the flames" and taking over a thread or the board.  This question is directly relevant to this discussion, which is a football-relevant issue)

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So first of all, reminder that players who are in the process of being vaccinated still have to quarantine, so we don't know for a fact that all these players are not in the process of getting vaccinated.

 

To be fair to Beasley, I think (one of) his point(s) would be he is making a private medical decision that is legitimately allowed by the NFL/NFLPA CBA, but that the current NFL protocols aren't sufficient to protect those who make that legitimately allowed decision

 

As far as "sheer ignorance", I'll let Riverboat Ron do the talking:

 

Chris Simms and Peter King had a segment where they pointed out that the team provides information for an hour in the facility, but then players can go home to people they trust (spouse, or other family members, personal trainer or wellness coach) who say "here are all these reasons, it's a bad idea to get the vaccine, I don't want you to get it."  The reasons don't hold up when they're pressure-tested by legitimate experts in the field, but they look very legitimate to lay people who are "doing their own research".  The way Simms and King presented it, it seemed pretty clear that they had actually spoken to and had off-the-record knowledge of what was going on in the background of some of these decisions.

 

My point is it's probably far too simplistic in our current environment to cast these players' decisions as "sheer ignorance".

I can’t believe you are dragging me into this thread!! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I can’t believe you are dragging me into this thread!! 

 

Sorry!  Sorry!  Very Sorry!!! I didn't think through the consequences!

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You can still get the virus if you are vaccinated. 

 

The data the NFL has released from intake and preseason testing is that 7x fewer vaccinated players or staff have tested positive than unvaccinated (anyone with any symptoms is tested immediately and must test daily for some period of time):

 

 

The vaccine reduces, but does not eliminate, the risk of infection. 

 

IMO if there were treatment that had solid studies showing it reduced the risk of a knee injury by 7x or 5x or even 3x, the players would be lining up for it.

 

(It's a judgement call that we're still working out, how much discussion we can allow without it "fanning the flames" and taking over a thread or the board.  This question is directly relevant to this discussion, which is a football-relevant issue)

 

 

Thats actually a really good point.

[RyanC883]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He may be over-rated, he may not be over-rated, but he's one of the 5 guys on the team at his position this season, meaning his replacement may not be on the roster. Injuries also happen.  If an absence of Star due to Covid protocol happens to coincide with an injury or illness of another of the 1TDTs, then "next man up" is our 3rd string at that position, or playing out of position.  It's a disadvantage.

 

Beasley's replacement list would not involve Kumerow.  McKenzie is listed on the depth chart behind him, but it's notable that in the 2020 playoffs, the Bills considered Beasley on a broken leg > McKenzie.  Other choices would include putting Sanders in that role (he can play slot).  Getting further down, Tanner Gentry has some of that "sneaky speed" quickness, and has been honing his slot skills working with Bease and showed some stuff, apparently.

 

I think a off the street space eater could fill in for Star.  He really brings nothing special, IMO.  Just a average space eater.  And we should have obtained one in Fa or the draft.  

 

In terms of Bease replacement, I think a healthy McKenzie would be better than broken leg Beasley, and Sanders is also a great option at depth.  Point being, I’m not worried about these two guys.  They are guys who if you can’t replace via personnel and game plan you have issues.  

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I disagree.  The fanbase here has always under appreciated the value Star brings, and I think they are going to see that this year when our defense makes a very noticeable improvement with the only major change being Star is back.  

 

His ability to eat space impacts the edge rushers, Oliver, and our LBs...and the success of our front 7 substantially impacts the pressure put on our secondary.  

 

Im not saying Star is some sort of irreplaceable elite player, but he is very good, and not as easy to just replace as I think you alluded to in your post.  

 

He def helps, but can be replaced with another average DT space eater. I think the big improvement will be Groot and actual pass rushers.  Star is an average space eater, IMO.  For whatever reason we never obtained an actual backup for him, really bizarre.  

[billybrew1]

My list of what has to happen in order to lift the Lombardi this season..... Most important to least.

 

1) must avoid injuries.

2) These three players need to man up and make plays: Tremaine Edmunds, Ed Oliver And Dawson Knox.

3) Rookies have to be good and make a sizable impact. This is a hard ask but true. Our defense must step up, so, the DL with the rookies, Star and Ed, Butler And Harrison, everybody in waves on the DL must step up.

4) I summed it up in three really.... The offense WILL be great if healthy. The STs will be sound if healthy. A top 8 unit, imho.

The big questions all fall upon the defense if injuries don't strike.... Even if Knox can't answer the bell, the O can find a way without him being clutch,

We NEED Tremaine Edmunds to be clutch. We need the DL to step up. We need a defensive game plan that is tough and aggressive and we need to play tough and aggressive. 

[JohnNord]

12 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Vaccinated and non-vaccinated people are getting Covid. 

 

How does your team being 100% vaccinated make your players less likely to contact the virus? 

 

I have nothing against vaccinated people, or unvacciated people, fyi. 

 

 

This was answered in the media [edit: by NFL's chief medical officer Dr. Allen Stills] the other when Bill Belichick put forth the same argument.  Your chances of getting COVID are 7 times less if you are vaccinated.

 

Also if unvaccinated, close contacts have to sit for 5 days.   Vaccinated players do not.  So if a player test positive for COVID on Friday, any unvaccinated close contacts are not able to play Sunday - even if they test negative 
 

There’s no doubt a competitive advantage for vaccinated players and the NFL purposely set it up that way.  I can only hope more players wake up like McKenzie did and quietly get vaccinated.  It would suck to have a season ended by COVID

11 hours ago, galept said:

If we lose a game and had players sitting at home during that game because they didn't get vaxxed, I'm not sure how those players could look their team, or the fans in the eye after that and be proud of their decision.

 

These players have sacrificed their bodies for this game, some of which may have brain issues later in life that leads to an early decline. No physician would recommend doing what they're doing because of the risks. But a shot? A shot is where they draw the line, which is probably recommended by just about all physicians.

 

It defies all logic.

Agree 💯 Forget the politics and get vaccinated to give your team the best chance to win 

[78thealltimegreat]

20 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

https://theathletic.com/2805597/2021/09/03/graham-these-are-the-bills-biggest-hurdles-to-reaching-the-super-bowl-in-2021?source=user-shared-article

1. COVID-19

Buffalo’s locker room became the place to fly your anti-vaccination flag this offseason.

Two weeks before opening what’s supposed to be a vision-quest season, some Bills starters were barred from the facility for five days a pop and fined for their COVID-19 impudence.

 

McDermott remained diplomatic at his next news conference. He measured his words carefully. His body language, however, belonged to that of a man who was about to flip the eff out.

 

“Very frustrating. Very frustrating,” McDermott said. “There’s people’s livelihoods at stake. … Our performance is judged off of wins and losses or how well a person does ‘X’ or ‘Y,’ and some of that is dependent upon other members of the team.

 

“That’s why this is a team game. Being able to count on people is important.”

 

Unvaccinated players create negative competitive consequences. Restrictions are eased for those who have been vaccinated. Unvaccinated players still are subject to quarantine through contact tracing.

 

Even after Dawkins revealed he’d spent four days at Buffalo General Hospital and that he was afraid the coronavirus was killing him and two days after receivers Cole Beasley and Gabriel Davis and defensive tackles Star Lotulelei and Vernon Butler were sent home, Beasley and receiver Isaiah McKenzie publicly mocked the collectively bargained safety protocols.

 

The NFL had fined McKenzie and Beasley $14,650 for repeatedly refusing to wear masks and/or tracking devices inside the Bills’ facility. NFL Network reported Beasley was spotted on video, while McKenzie failed to comply in the presence of league officials who were at One Bills Drive to give a presentation on COVID protocols. McKenzie tweeted a photo of his NFL notice and joked about the fine. The U.S. Census Bureau’s latest data estimates the average Erie County resident makes $33,598 a year.

 

McKenzie, at least, had an epiphany. He eventually posted a photo of his vaccination card. Beasley is telling those around him he never will get a shot under any circumstances.

 

Lotulelei’s decision not to get vaccinated is a noggin-scratcher. Lotulelei took the COVID opt-out last season, and while the Bills could have used him against the run at times, they also proved they could win a lot of games without him.

 

Linebackers Matt Milano and Klein were preemptively removed from practice, an indication that they, too, were not vaccinated. The NFL’s investigation determined Milano and Klein weren’t in close-contact jeopardy and could return to practice the next day.

Beane said last week the Bills’ vaccination rate might be below 80 percent. That was before the 53-man cutdown, which was expected to lower the Bills’ percentage because fringe players are more motivated to get the shots.

 

Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians announced Thursday that his defending Super Bowl champions are 100 percent vaccinated, including all players, coaches and staff.

The constant shaming of players isn’t going to make them change if we are stupid enough to cut arguably the best slot receiver in the game over his virus stance he’ll be in New England catching passes from Mac Jones the next day 

[Doc Brown]

There very well could be a week (or even two) where we lose Beasley and Davis because of their brave vaccine stance.  The Bills are prepared for this and it may be why they kept seven on the roster.  It's nice having a deep bench at WR along with Diggs, Sanders, and McKenzie being vaccinated.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The constant shaming of players isn’t going to make them change if we are stupid enough to cut arguably the best slot receiver in the game over his virus stance he’ll be in New England catching passes from Mac Jones the next day 

 

Straw man.  We are not cutting Beasley

 

UNLESS he is in-your-face blatant about not following NFL Covid protocols and gets suspended for 4 games.

In which case, don't bet the rent money Belichick takes him on.

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Straw man.  We are not cutting Beasley

 

UNLESS he is in-your-face blatant about not following NFL Covid protocols and gets suspended for 4 games.

In which case, don't bet the rent money Belichick takes him on.

Oh Bill will make a Bline to sign him remember it was the Bills and Pats for him last time and if anything he’s been even better in Buffalo then he was in Dallas 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I’d trade Beasley for… just about anything at this point and resign Smoke if he’s vaccinated. I realize different skill set, but Sanders can fill Beasley’s role with relative ease, and Davis is ready to step into a bigger role.
 

The Champs are 100%… If I’m Beane and McDermott, I would view anybody not getting vaxxed as someone who simply doesn’t want to win bad enough to be on my team .  Personal beliefs aside, the rules give a competitive advantage to those who are vaccinated, period.  Games in this league are way to close to be giving an opponent any sort of advantage.

 

 The article is 100% right, and I bet a clown like Beasley has little to no trade value- unvaccinated 32 yr old loud mouth distraction isn’t going to be worth much.

[BUFFALOTONE]

16 hours ago, eball said:

Nailed it, @Richard Noggin.  I simply can’t believe players like Beasley, Davis, Milano, Klein, and Star — guys who see the best chance they’ve ever had to win a SB before them — letting their teammates and coaches (and fans) down out of sheer ignorance.

Why did Star sit out the whole year if he’s not going to take the vaccine? Seems very odd. 

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I think a off the street space eater could fill in for Star.  He really brings nothing special, IMO.  Just a average space eater.  And we should have obtained one in Fa or the draft.  

 

In terms of Bease replacement, I think a healthy McKenzie would be better than broken leg Beasley, and Sanders is also a great option at depth.  Point being, I’m not worried about these two guys.  They are guys who if you can’t replace via personnel and game plan you have issues.  

 

He def helps, but can be replaced with another average DT space eater. I think the big improvement will be Groot and actual pass rushers.  Star is an average space eater, IMO.  For whatever reason we never obtained an actual backup for him, really bizarre.  

 

 

Star is a very good space eater. Very good. Now, is he good at rushing the passer? Nah, though he compresses the pocket decently. Is he likely to not only eat space but also go beyond that to make tackles, as some very gifted DTs do? Nope.

 

But does he eat space? Yeah. He's very good at it.

 

Should we have brought in someone else to back Star up? That's a very reasonable argument, particularly as we now can be fairly sure that at least right now he's not vaccinated. But no, an off-the-street guy isn't going to do what Star does nearly as well. We've got backups for him, in Zimmer and Horrible Harry. Could we have brought in another? Yeah, I thought they would draft a long-term replacement this year and was surprised they didn't.

 

But Star is very good at what they need him to do.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Boatdrinks]

20 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

True, but we also don't want to watch Joe Backup play because Joe Starter was sidelined, especially if it's due to a non-football issue that Joe Starter could have prevented.

 

 

Luck of the draw ,genetically and otherwise. My issue is the rule(s), not that a virus exists or how Bills players made medical decisions. 

14 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

I’d trade Beasley for… just about anything at this point and resign Smoke if he’s vaccinated. I realize different skill set, but Sanders can fill Beasley’s role with relative ease, and Davis is ready to step into a bigger role.
 

The Champs are 100%… If I’m Beane and McDermott, I would view anybody not getting vaxxed as someone who simply doesn’t want to win bad enough to be on my team .  Personal beliefs aside, the rules give a competitive advantage to those who are vaccinated, period.  Games in this league are way to close to be giving an opponent any sort of advantage.

 

 The article is 100% right, and I bet a clown like Beasley has little to no trade value- unvaccinated 32 yr old loud mouth distraction isn’t going to be worth much.

You’re correct about the NFL rules. They give an unfair advantage to one group. I’m sure there’s room on the Tampa Champs bandwagon in time for the season. Choices .....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

51 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Luck of the draw ,genetically and otherwise. My issue is the rule(s), not that a virus exists or how Bills players made medical decisions. 

You’re correct about the NFL rules. They give an unfair advantage to one group. I’m sure there’s room on the Tampa Champs bandwagon in time for the season. Choices .....

 

I mean, this is like railing about any other NFL rule..... You can have an issue with a rule and think it gives some group an unfair advantage

The point is, the rule exists

It may even have a good basis for existing (or have had a good basis when it was made)

 

Either way, it exists and all 32 teams have to work with it.

 

Control What You Can Control

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Oh Bill will make a Bline to sign him remember it was the Bills and Pats for him last time and if anything he’s been even better in Buffalo then he was in Dallas 

 

It's possible but show me the last time Belichick made a bee-line to sign a player facing an 8 game suspension or whatever the next ratchet up is after 4 games.

That was the premise of my post you were responding to.

[78thealltimegreat]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's possible but show me the last time Belichick made a bee-line to sign a player facing an 8 game suspension or whatever the next ratchet up is after 4 games.

That was the premise of my post you were responding to.

If it’s 4 Bill will gladly do that so he can watch Beasley rub it in our faces for being idiots for cutting him 

23 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

I’d trade Beasley for… just about anything at this point and resign Smoke if he’s vaccinated. I realize different skill set, but Sanders can fill Beasley’s role with relative ease, and Davis is ready to step into a bigger role.
 

The Champs are 100%… If I’m Beane and McDermott, I would view anybody not getting vaxxed as someone who simply doesn’t want to win bad enough to be on my team .  Personal beliefs aside, the rules give a competitive advantage to those who are vaccinated, period.  Games in this league are way to close to be giving an opponent any sort of advantage.

 

 The article is 100% right, and I bet a clown like Beasley has little to no trade value- unvaccinated 32 yr old loud mouth distraction isn’t going to be worth much.

You really shouldn’t bet your house on that that maybe the worst take possible if you don’t think the best slot receiver in football will be signed within a week probably by New England or Kansas City just to rub it in the Bills faces you got another thing coming