Hollister signing with Jags

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Great Post ^.

 

Blocking is the key. On any situation where Hollister is there mostly to catch a pass, I would rather have Kumero or Davis split out wide and be playing against the other teams 4th or 5th defensive back or a LB.

 

Sweeney is for goal line situations instead of an additional OT for blocking.  The defense has to cover him, he holds the ball and is as fast as anyone to run 5 yards and turn around to catch a quick pass.  Those sort of plays are not the major factor in the offense, but they score points and make the defense have to cover the TE for a short pass. Invaluable as the edge rusher/blitzer can not blow by the TE because Allen is good enough to snap a quick pass for the TD.

 

Agreed - and I would expect a lot of what I am calling a Hybrid 12 player grouping near the goal line.  1 RB, Gilliam as a TE/shift FB (hence the hybrid), and 1TE with Sweeney.

 

I think then you bring in Kumerow or Davis as the #2 WR to give a big body/blocker.

 

I think this player grouping allows for a ton of variation for a talented play caller like Dabol with RB runs, shifting Gilliam into the backfield - you have quick handoffs to him, you can use him to help gain an edge and run pitchouts to the RB - heck you can even do the Kelce play where they toss Gilliam the ball so it is a forward pass and let him crash into the line.
 

You could fake a pitch to the weak side and have Josh follow Gilliam as a lead blocker.

 

You could fake the run and have the #2 WR on a crossing route and the TE sliding out to the back corner and Gilliam just busting forward and turning around past the goal line to hold LBs and the RB sprinting out into the flat. Or you can reverse that and have the TE run across and the WR block down and then pivot to the corner.
 

There are just a ton of plays with that player group and utilizing different formations and I think it starts with a better blocking TE like Sweeney and a jackknife of a player in Gilliam.  
 

My guess is Daboll and the offensive staff discussed player grouping a lot and this type of play is not in Hollister’s wheel house.  It is also not in Knox’s wheel house - which is why I don’t think it came down to Sweeney versus Hollister.  I think it was Knox versus Hollister once the WRs and DL showed out and Knox has looked really good.  
 

Once Knox got the starting job - then it fell to who else do we keep and what positions and Hollister backing up Knox could more easily be replaced by a WR than losing Stevenson/Kumerow or Addison/Obada.  It stinks, but I get it.

[Scott7975]

11 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Way to embellish what most people are saying.  I don’t think anyone is going to that extreme.  They have questioned the move of releasing Hollister and keeping Sweeney, when Hollister’s quickness and ability to get downfield are something that the team doesn’t have at the position.  
 

The other danger is relying on Dawson Knox who looked like the same player he’s always been in the preseason.   If Knox is injured or playing poorly, the team is in better shape with Hollister getting snaps than Sweeney

Lawrence….and the other TE on the team:

 

Jimmy O’Shauhnessy

Chris Manhertz

Luke Farrell

 

There’s a good chance Hollister is the starting TE a few weeks into the season, if not sooner.  

Pretty much that for me.  My only thought about it is that Sweeney hasn't shown he can stay healthy and we are so short in the position.  Hollister seemed like the best backup on the team IMO.

[LABILLBACKER]

Someday this organization will accidentally run into a great TE.  It just isn't now....We keep Sweeney & Gilliam to block and continue to watch Knox drop balls.....Yay!

[Saxum]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be mistaken, but I don't see it. 

 

Sweeney over Hollister is the most puzzling decision on the roster to me.  I thought a 7th round pick after a year on IR could slide right onto the practice squad.

 

The only way it makes sense to me is that the Bills see Knox and Hollister as filling relatively interchangeable roles - Hollister would be the Kroft-replacement as Knox's backup - and they believe Sweeney's strength and blocking technique have improved to where he can more edge towards being the Lee Smith replacement, the TE who can block in-line or leak out, and who the other team kind of forgets about because he lacks the speed and agility to separate downfield.  In this scenario, the Bills decided to do without a backup to Knox on the roster (or feel a combination of Kumerow and Gilliam could fill that role in a pinch) in order to leave room for an extra DE.

 

"kind of forgets" is when team cheats trying to double cover one player and tries to cover other offense player with defense player part of double coverage.

Some times cheaters get caught* especially when offense practices a good scheme.

 

*get caught applies different for New England

 

[FilthyBeast]

Still would have preffered to keep hollister but a team like this is probably the best possible landing spot for him (aside from the fact he won't be competing for a championship there).

 

Laurence is going to be stud and the Jags will likely be involved in a lot of high scoring games playing from behind so Hollister certainly has high volume upside if he's on the field a lot.

[RyanC883]

17 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Still would have preffered to keep hollister but a team like this is probably the best possible landing spot for him (aside from the fact he won't be competing for a championship there).

 

Laurence is going to be stud and the Jags will likely be involved in a lot of high scoring games playing from behind so Hollister certainly has high volume upside if he's on the field a lot.

 

agree.  he will have a good number year there and turn it into a large contract next year there or elsewhere. 

[SirAndrew]

On 9/3/2021 at 8:49 AM, First Round Bust said:

small sample size, gonna say he is better than Dawson Knox - a higher floor for sure,  maybe Knox ceiliing can be higher but we keep waiting, waiting for that, and other than 1-2 spectacular plays the drops outweigh those

Yeah, I have no problem that Knox hasn’t turned into Kelce yet, but the lack of progress concerns me. He has every chance to show that he’s progressed this season, but I’m done having any faith in him if I don’t see it early in the season. He looked like the same player in year two, as he was his rookie year. I understand his potential, but not seeing any progress has been concerning. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:10 AM, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed - and I would expect a lot of what I am calling a Hybrid 12 player grouping near the goal line.  1 RB, Gilliam as a TE/shift FB (hence the hybrid), and 1TE with Sweeney.

 

I think then you bring in Kumerow or Davis as the #2 WR to give a big body/blocker.

 

I think this player grouping allows for a ton of variation for a talented play caller like Dabol with RB runs, shifting Gilliam into the backfield - you have quick handoffs to him, you can use him to help gain an edge and run pitchouts to the RB - heck you can even do the Kelce play where they toss Gilliam the ball so it is a forward pass and let him crash into the line.
 

You could fake a pitch to the weak side and have Josh follow Gilliam as a lead blocker.

 

You could fake the run and have the #2 WR on a crossing route and the TE sliding out to the back corner and Gilliam just busting forward and turning around past the goal line to hold LBs and the RB sprinting out into the flat. Or you can reverse that and have the TE run across and the WR block down and then pivot to the corner.
 

There are just a ton of plays with that player group and utilizing different formations and I think it starts with a better blocking TE like Sweeney and a jackknife of a player in Gilliam.  
 

My guess is Daboll and the offensive staff discussed player grouping a lot and this type of play is not in Hollister’s wheel house.  It is also not in Knox’s wheel house - which is why I don’t think it came down to Sweeney versus Hollister.  I think it was Knox versus Hollister once the WRs and DL showed out and Knox has looked really good.  
 

Once Knox got the starting job - then it fell to who else do we keep and what positions and Hollister backing up Knox could more easily be replaced by a WR than losing Stevenson/Kumerow or Addison/Obada.  It stinks, but I get it.

 

I could be wrong, but it seems to me one of the Bills favorite goal-line sets was (0,2) with Knox and either Smith or an extra OLmen.

The advantage this gave them was that they still had a run threat in the backfield with Josh.

 

They did run (1,2) as well, I believe.

[billsfan89]

The Bills simply liked whatelse they had on the roster better. Not that complicated, good for Hollister to catch on.

[buffaloboyinATL]

Yeah, the team that came in last place last season, is more likely to have room for a player on their roster, than the team that came on second on the AFC. It is fun to have such a deep roster, but tough to lose players you wish you had room for. 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong, but it seems to me one of the Bills favorite goal-line sets was (0,2) with Knox and either Smith or an extra OLmen.

The advantage this gave them was that they still had a run threat in the backfield with Josh.

 

They did run (1,2) as well, I believe.

I expect Dawkins and Brown to both catch TD's this season. I think Spencer Brown could be an extra olineman that they can sneak through and get some catches.

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong, but it seems to me one of the Bills favorite goal-line sets was (0,2) with Knox and either Smith or an extra OLmen.

The advantage this gave them was that they still had a run threat in the backfield with Josh.

 

They did run (1,2) as well, I believe.

 

They ran that a lot, but used a variety of TEs.  They used Knox, Smith, Kroft, Bates got used, and they used Gilliam early in the season for a TD catch.

 

They ran a ton of formations - including bringing McKenzie into the backfield as an RB and moving an actual RB out to WR.

 

I think the difference is they will expect Gilliam, Sweeney, a RB (most likely Moss) with a bigger WR like Kumerow and/or Davis to force the defense to commit to more run stopping front because Sweeney is a better in-line blocker than Knox and Hollister were and Gilliam can be a TE, FB, or even the lone RB if you split Moss out wide.  
 

The size and blocking were not available a bunch last year and this then gives the Bills different options.  I honestly believe that Sweeney was on this roster because of his blocking as a “Lee Smith” replacement.  I think Hollister and Knox were competing for TE #1.  Knox won TE #1 - Sweeney was TE #3 (Blocking) - Gilliam was special teams and his position flexibility - so Hollister was slotted into TE#2.

 

When Stevenson played well enough that they could not cut him and the DE group played well enough to keep everyone - numbers started getting tight.  I think the final decision was when Phillips was injured.  He should be back for week 1, but I think the FO felt they needed Butler - just in case Phillips was unable to go and that additional DL player put TE#2 outside the bubble.

 

I really think Hollister was just edged out and based upon the things Beane said, I really think they would of loved to keep Hollister, but it just didn’t work out with the numbers.  They made a decision in the short term for some early season DL protection and it cost them TE#2.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

I think the difference is they will expect Gilliam, Sweeney, a RB (most likely Moss) with a bigger WR like Kumerow and/or Davis to force the defense to commit to more run stopping front because Sweeney is a better in-line blocker than Knox and Hollister were and Gilliam can be a TE, FB, or even the lone RB if you split Moss out wide.  

 

I would like to believe that, but have we actually seen that in games?

He appeared in early games his rookie season 2019, and one would reasonably expect his blocking to improve from early rookie season

He was only in one preseason game - did he have some examples of "Wow!" blocking there?

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would like to believe that, but have we actually seen that in games?

He appeared in early games his rookie season 2019, and one would reasonably expect his blocking to improve from early rookie season

He was only in one preseason game - did he have some examples of "Wow!" blocking there?

 

I don’t know as I was not in practice, but Sal who was in practice said he looked really good as a blocker and he catches everything.

 

Sal seemed to think he had the best hands of the TE group even with Hollister on the roster.  He just lacked that athleticism that Knox and Hollister had.  I believe he said that Sweeney was not as good a blocker as Lee Smith, but was a better Athlete and could be better in the red zone.  Maybe I am wrong, but the way I interpreted it was Sweeney made this team for short yardage and goal line situations - so to me I thought that meant in spring and early practice and in his limited time in TC - playing when Hollister was out - he made an impression that he could handle that role and when he was out - Hollister and Knox couldn’t.

 

I believe the competition in camp was Knox v Hollister and Sweeney v Becker and the winner of those 2 competitions had a spot.  Then The loser of the competition was in a numbers game for a spot on the roster.  I am pretty sure Morris was earmarked for the PS as a future athletic TE - I actually was sort of surprised Becker also did not slid in, but with Hollister and then Warring - I think they assumed Becker could just stick around outside the squad.
 

As an FYI - Of all the media guys watching the practice - I tend to trust Sal the most - so I seek out as much of his stuff both in the morning and evening and now he has a new show starting daily.  He doesn’t have ever inside scoop, but he actually has some good thoughts about roster building and why certain guys make it or certain guys get released.

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

I don’t know as I was not in practice, but Sal who was in practice said he looked really good as a blocker and he catches everything.

 

Sal seemed to think he had the best hands of the TE group even with Hollister on the roster.  He just lacked that athleticism that Knox and Hollister had.  I believe he said that Sweeney was not as good a blocker as Lee Smith, but was a better Athlete and could be better in the red zone.

 

There's a lot of space between "not as good a blocker as Lee Smith" and Hollister/Knox.  I wouldn't expect any 2nd year player (which is Sweeney, essentially) to be a Lee Smith level blocker.

 

In theory Sweeney has the potential, the question is can he do it at "game intensity" against #1 DLmen

 

 

27 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

I believe the competition in camp was Knox v Hollister and Sweeney v Becker and the winner of those 2 competitions had a spot.  Then The loser of the competition was in a numbers game for a spot on the roster.  I am pretty sure Morris was earmarked for the PS as a future athletic TE - I actually was sort of surprised Becker also did not slid in, but with Hollister and then Warring - I think they assumed Becker could just stick around outside the squad.

 

I see it a similar way FWIW: Knox and Hollister having similar skills sets with Knox > Hollister, and Sweeney being the "Lee Smith in training" type.

 

I don't know what "stick around outside the squad" means

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:04 PM, SC BIlls Fan said:

Apparently got multiple offers and decided to sign with the Jaguars. I was surprised when we cut him.

 

I definitely screwed the pooch on this one. I made a thread asking people who their breakout players were this year and one of my 2 was Hollister. I fed into the Wyoming connection and the lack of TE talent on the roster. I still don't understand why we still have Knox other than it was pretty much a wash, but Knox knows the offense better + he's younger (?) so that's what kept him around longer. I guess that's why I post on a message board and don't run an NFL team 😂 My other choice was Espenesa so here's to hoping ONE of my predictions becoming right. With all the Rousseau hype, he's a guy I'm watching for. 

[PrimeTime101]

Jacksonville has Hollister as third string.. That's the best job he could find and some of you had him as a starter. 

[Rochesterfan]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's a lot of space between "not as good a blocker as Lee Smith" and Hollister/Knox.  I wouldn't expect any 2nd year player (which is Sweeney, essentially) to be a Lee Smith level blocker.

 

In theory Sweeney has the potential, the question is can he do it at "game intensity" against #1 DLmen

 

 

 

I see it a similar way FWIW: Knox and Hollister having similar skills sets with Knox > Hollister, and Sweeney being the "Lee Smith in training" type.

 

I don't know what "stick around outside the squad" means

 

 

 

I don’t think they expected Nate Becker to get any calls to join other PS.  Much like when they bring guys in for tryouts - I would expect that if something significant happens to Sweeney - they could call someone up and Nate will be available to go to the PS and/or eventually land on the team - if that blocking role is needed.

 

He already knows the playbook from multiple seasons, but is not a guy you are going to continue to put a lot of long term development into.  He becomes one of those guys that gets future contracts and sticks around the Periphery and is available, but just can’t take the next step.