AP exclusive: Bills propose new 60k seat stadium by (update - 2025)

[Royale with Cheese]

12 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

According to PSE the majority of fans in their study want Orchard Park, open air. Not a vocal minority at all. 

 

Pegula also prefers that and said so early in his tenure as owner.

 

Also, winter weather does not stop the passing game. 

 

Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers. All cold weather QBs playing in weather as bad or worse than Buffalo. 

 

Then there was the high flying Bills offense in the 90s. Cold and snow didn't stop a 51-3 beatdown of the Raiders in the AFC title game in Orchard Park.

 

Football belongs outdoors, and the idea that it disadvantages the passing game on any kind of consistent basis is demonstrably false. The Bills hardly ever play snow games at home anyway. 

 

It's not about a competitive advantage. It's about the fact that domes suck. 

 

 

Cold weather isn’t bad weather.  OP is the windiest stadium in the NFL.  How many times have the uprights at Lambeau tilted?  
How many 5 yard passes did Brady throw where the wind pushes the ball sideways?

[Irv]

I don’t get 60K. We went from 80K to 71K, now 60K.  Makes no sense.  

[Motorin']

9 minutes ago, Irv said:

I don’t get 60K. We went from 80K to 71K, now 60K.  Makes no sense.  

 

Supply and command Ricky. 

[Greg S]

9 minutes ago, Irv said:

I don’t get 60K. We went from 80K to 71K, now 60K.  Makes no sense.  

 

They are factoring in higher ticket prices for individual tickets and season tickets. Also PSL fees. I live in NJ and both the Jets and Giants had a waiting list for season tickets at Giants Stadium. That's not the case anymore at MetLife. Unfortunately many people will be priced out from going to the games so 60k probably is a good number for a market size like Buffalo.

[RiotAct]

if the stadium IS open air and not well-protected from the elements, there’s still gonna be a lottttt of cheap tickets on the secondary market for those late-season games.  STHers will be taking even more of a bath on the cost.

[jletha]

28 minutes ago, Irv said:

I don’t get 60K. We went from 80K to 71K, now 60K.  Makes no sense.  

Lots factors into this.

 

1) our capacity compared to market size was always high but our market has shrunk. Going to 60k brings us close to league average for market size.

 

2) ticket sale sused to be a huge money maker for teams. Now the money is dominated by broadcast rights so you dont NEED large stadiums with high capacity

 

3) demand for being in the stadium has dwindled because the home-watching experience has gotten so good. Gone are the days of crowding around a 16in CRT. Now the at home experience is much better than in the stadium in terms of watching the game. Didnt used to be that way when the Ralph was built.

[Irv]

3 minutes ago, jletha said:

Lots factors into this.

 

1) our capacity compared to market size was always high but our market has shrunk. Going to 60k brings us close to league average for market size.

 

2) ticket sale sused to be a huge money maker for teams. Now the money is dominated by broadcast rights so you dont NEED large stadiums with high capacity

 

3) demand for being in the stadium has dwindled because the home-watching experience has gotten so good. Gone are the days of crowding around a 16in CRT. Now the at home experience is much better than in the stadium in terms of watching the game. Didnt used to be that way when the Ralph was built.

OK. Good points.  But if you could sell 10K more tickets wouldn’t that be better?  I get the fact that you don’t need a 200K seat stadium.  But why not have the opportunity for at least a little more dough?   We’ve proven year after year that we can fill a 70K seat stadium.  

[CEN-CAL17]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:31 PM, Utah John said:

Who's got the cash to fill up those 60 suites?  I realize that's a big source of money for other teams but will that work in Buffalo?

Josh will probably grab 2 suites. One for family and one he can let friends or his support team, business partners etc use.

60 suites at say $20-30k a season isn’t crap for some of these ex players, business owners, family of staff members etc…

 

 

I just hope it’s a full bowl stadium and I expect each side will be covered like Seattle 

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, Irv said:

OK. Good points.  But if you could sell 10K more tickets wouldn’t that be better?  I get the fact that you don’t need a 200K seat stadium.  But why not have the opportunity for at least a little more dough?   We’ve proven year after year that we can fill a 70K seat stadium.  

I’m guessing they know the target price points for each seating level at the new stadium already, and they’ve engineered them in such a way that they’ll see increased profits.   Plus, the better optics of a completely full stadium even for those “dogs” of a game

[CEN-CAL17]

7 minutes ago, jletha said:

Lots factors into this.

 

1) our capacity compared to market size was always high but our market has shrunk. Going to 60k brings us close to league average for market size.

 

2) ticket sale sused to be a huge money maker for teams. Now the money is dominated by broadcast rights so you dont NEED large stadiums with high capacity

 

3) demand for being in the stadium has dwindled because the home-watching experience has gotten so good. Gone are the days of crowding around a 16in CRT. Now the at home experience is much better than in the stadium in terms of watching the game. Didnt used to be that way when the Ralph was built.

Plus at 60k most likely there won’t be a bad seat in the house vs some of these 80k seat stadiums that have 5 levels and still pay $150 a ticket for sitting in FAA airspace 

[PolishDave]

42 minutes ago, Irv said:

I don’t get 60K. We went from 80K to 71K, now 60K.  Makes no sense.  

 

They want to create a supply vs demand scenario where demand is greater than supply year after year.   That is how you maximize ticket prices, revenue per customer and return on investment.     I think it is primarily about ROI.   They have calculated their sweet spot for stadium size and will build it to that size.    Also the main reason they don't want to build a dome.   It reduces ROI.

[Irv]

5 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

They want to create a supply vs demand scenario where demand is greater than supply year after year.   That is how you maximize ticket prices, revenue per customer and return on investment.     I think it is primarily about ROI.   They have calculated their sweet spot for stadium size and will build it to that size.    Also the main reason they don't want to build a dome.   It reduces ROI.

You’d have to heat and cool a dome too I’m sure.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I actually think the Pegulas will be laughed at by media and the league if they build a stadium with part of a roof. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Cold weather isn’t bad weather.  OP is the windiest stadium in the NFL.  How many times have the uprights at Lambeau tilted?  
How many 5 yard passes did Brady throw where the wind pushes the ball sideways?

Brady was 33-3 vs Bills. Better than against any other AFCE opponent.  His win % is better outside than in domes.

 

How many games in OP have goalpost tilting wind?

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

40 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

They want to create a supply vs demand scenario where demand is greater than supply year after year.   That is how you maximize ticket prices, revenue per customer and return on investment.     I think it is primarily about ROI.   They have calculated their sweet spot for stadium size and will build it to that size.    Also the main reason they don't want to build a dome.   It reduces ROI.

 

The Jerruh Dome in Dallas is an outlier... 60k is about where a lot of new stadiums are.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, purple haze said:

I keep hearing about all these people who don’t show up to these cold weather games.  There were over 65,000 people who did show up on Sunday and sit out in the cold.  Over 69,000 showed up for the Monday night game a couple weeks ago.  
 

New stadium will seat between 60,000-62,000 according to reports.  The people who don’t like the cold won’t have to worry about going.  Enjoy the game on your couch.  Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

There is some truth to that.........cutting the stadium down to 60K makes the ticket more exclusive.......but keep in mind that the cost of the ticket will likely triple when you figure in licenses.    I'm all for making the stadium smaller capacity.

 

But I can tell you from 3 decades of personal experience attending almost every single preseason and regular season game........that Carolina game was the game when you bring those dudes that would normally never pay for a ticket.   Tickets were literally $10 online and not selling.   I sit in the lower bowl and not only were lot's of seats empty but the two people next to me and 6 directly in front of me were all just there because they got the tickets for free or next to nothing.

 

That's not a good business model.

 

And you have to be open to the idea that the NFL just might be greedy.    The league doesn't want you looking at the ticket buying, parking and pretzel as the entire process.   Then they will want you to come in very early and gamble at their in-house casino(something nobody would have imagined 20 years ago),  partake in their expensive food and booze rather than tailgate(and on average it probably costs us $30 per person to eat and drink at our tailgates cuz we eat good) and buy merchandise to commemorate this joyous event (and not necessarily just NFL merchandise).    

 

And they should feel confident that it will work.    If they can squeeze in other events or get people to show up for some of that year round that's just gravy.

 

I remember my parents generation complaining about the cost of Ralph's $20 tickets but when they would drop $1K at the track or casino on the weekend that was just "the high cost of entertainment".    The NFL is less than half-way into fans pockets on gameday.   At least those select 60K.  They know it they just gotta' figure out how to get it.   IMO they will have a much harder time extracting that dough if a lot of the actual paying customers don't show up for the last 4 games or if they have to show up in a snowsuit/rainsuit with 6 other layers of clothing.   

[Matt_In_NH]

55 minutes ago, Irv said:

OK. Good points.  But if you could sell 10K more tickets wouldn’t that be better?  I get the fact that you don’t need a 200K seat stadium.  But why not have the opportunity for at least a little more dough?   We’ve proven year after year that we can fill a 70K seat stadium.  

A couple points

1.  They might be able to get more money with less seats...by charging more per seat....supply and demand.   I don't think they need more seats, they have a hard time selling what there is now and the secondary market is pretty cheap especially for the bad weather games.

2.  New stadiums have been trending with smaller capacities but a better overall experience for the fans.  I  think Foxboro is not even at 70,000 and they have probably 5-10X the fans to draw from.  You will still be able to go, might be a few more clams though.

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

(and on average it probably costs us $30 per person to eat and drink at our tailgates cuz we eat good

Soooo, where do you guys tailgate?

Asking for friend..........

[jletha]

26 minutes ago, mattynh said:

A couple points

1.  They might be able to get more money with less seats...by charging more per seat....supply and demand.   I don't think they need more seats, they have a hard time selling what there is now and the secondary market is pretty cheap especially for the bad weather games.

2.  New stadiums have been trending with smaller capacities but a better overall experience for the fans.  I  think Foxboro is not even at 70,000 and they have probably 5-10X the fans to draw from.  You will still be able to go, might be a few more clams though.

Obviously its an old stadium, so not a direct comparison, but Soldier Field is at 61,500. Chicago is one of the largest markets in the country.

 

Also Allegient in LV, just built last year, is 65k.

 

60k in Buffalo seems like a good number.

1 hour ago, Irv said:

OK. Good points.  But if you could sell 10K more tickets wouldn’t that be better?  I get the fact that you don’t need a 200K seat stadium.  But why not have the opportunity for at least a little more dough?   We’ve proven year after year that we can fill a 70K seat stadium.  

More seats means a large stadium which just either increases costs and/or makes the seats that are there that much worse.

 

I think having a better experience for 60k fans is preferred to having a worse experience for 68k and 2k empty seats. Just IMO

Edited December 22, 2021 by jletha

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, Simon said:

Soooo, where do you guys tailgate?

Asking for friend..........

 

The lot right next to Hammer's house.  13 Glen Street.   TSW folks always welcome to stop by(as they've always been).