AP exclusive: Bills propose new 60k seat stadium by (update - 2025)

[BuffaloBills1998]

29 minutes ago, klos63 said:

it was reported, bu the media doesn't report that.  Right.

The team is not for sale.

What I meant was the media only reports anything negative regarding this and not the positive. Guys like Florio and ESPN like to try and stir controversy as much as possible and not report the positive. 

[Rochesterfan]

23 minutes ago, Fdapats said:

Everyone has a price

 

Even if you had the price the league doesn’t allow it - so your sorry plan moves the team out - hello Buffalo with no sports.

 

Good For You!   👏👏👏👏👏🤦‍♂️

[That's No Moon]

9 minutes ago, Fdapats said:

Rules can be changed

Yeah, I'm sure the cartel that is the NFL will go right ahead and vote in a super majority to change that rule. Keep dreaming.

[Rochesterfan]

9 minutes ago, Fdapats said:

Rules can be changed

 

Why would they change the rules - the team needs a new stadium, the league wants a new stadium, the owner is working on getting a deal done and you are driving them out with a completely stupid logic.  
 

Good God - I thought the fan base was smarter than this.    🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[Fdapats]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Why would they change the rules - the team needs a new stadium, the league wants a new stadium, the owner is working on getting a deal done and you are driving them out with a completely stupid logic.  
 

Good God - I thought the fan base was smarter than this.    🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I'm just not willing to use tax money to enrich Billionaires further.   If that makes me a bad fan, i'm ok with that.  

[That's No Moon]

2 minutes ago, Fdapats said:

I'm just not willing to use tax money to enrich Billionaires further.   If that makes me a bad fan, i'm ok with that.  

The question then is would you root for the Bills of they are not in Buffalo and I, personally, would not. Not would I have a reason to return to Buffalo and spend money so both entities would essentially be dead to me.

[Mat68]

Ralph asked for 500 mil renovations in the 2000’s to repair the upper deck and concords.  That is still the minimal renovations required.  This is same reason why the Browns moved to Baltimore.  Why the Colts moved to Indy.

 

The only way they stay is a new Stadium.  Whether its 60/40 70/30 or 100%.  Public money from Albany will be required.  Money western NY would never sniff otherwise.   

Edited September 4, 2021 by Mat68

[Fdapats]

1 minute ago, That's No Moon said:

The question then is would you root for the Bills of they are not in Buffalo and I, personally, would not. Not would I have a reason to return to Buffalo and spend money so both entities would essentially be dead to me.

I would never watch an NFL game again on principle.

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Fdapats said:

I would never watch an NFL game again on principle.

Then stop watching them now because that's where your proposal leads.

[Rochesterfan]

9 minutes ago, Fdapats said:

I'm just not willing to use tax money to enrich Billionaires further.   If that makes me a bad fan, i'm ok with that.  

 

Your a great fan it will just be of another team.  Enjoy 🤦‍♂️

[TEC]

43 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Here's the problem. All of us know the economic argument. We know this. If that's the argument you want to stick with you are right, they should let the Bills leave. I'm not sure how many people actually agree with that because that is the real discussion. Enter a partnership where the public pays a significant portion and higher ticket prices, or watch NFL football on TV forever. Those are the options, no bloviation is required. There is no perfect world where the billionaires pay for their own stuff. Do you want it or not yes or no. 

 

 

It's easy to say "***** billionaires, pay for your own stadium or leave town" when it's another city. It's much harder when it's the Bills. 

 

Scam, grift, strong arming, bullying, call it what you want, but citizens and representatives are being played when they write big checks to billionaires who don't need them. That is fundamentally wrong.  I'd actually love for the Pegulas to step up to microphone and explain EXACTLY why they and the NFL are incapable of financing the stadium. Let the reporters grill them for 60 minutes and let's see if it's still an urgent priority. 

 

I'm not sure what the parameters for profit sharing would like, but that's the only route I'd want to go down. No public money to the Bills for nothing, and whatever happens, happens.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by TEC

[That's No Moon]

2 minutes ago, TEC said:

 

It's easy to say "***** billionaires, pay for your own stadium or leave town" when it's another city. It's much harder when it's the Bills. 

 

Scam, grift, strong arm, bullying, call it what you want, but citizens and representatives are being played when the write big checks to billionaires who don't need them. That is fundamentally wrong.  I'd actually love for the Pegulas to step up to microphone and explain EXACTLY why they and the NFL can't find the funds for the stadium. 

 

I'm not sure what the parameters for profit sharing or a loan would like, but that's the only route I'd want to go down. No free money, and whatever happens, happens.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you'll be alone on that path because that's not going to happen. You know why they need that? Because someone else will give it to them. That's why. That's the only reason they need. And "someone else" is out there and it will happen.

 

Rather than ***** footing around just come out and say it, you don't care of the Bills are in Buffalo or not. That is the choice. Either play the game and have a team or die on your principles and don't. That's your choice. None of your strawman examples are valid. They aren't going to happen. They aren't going to happen because they don't need to happen. There are several cities in this country with wealthy people who would be more than happy to write the check not only for the Bills but for a stadium also. Pretending there aren't and that you are calling some sort of epic bluff where the Pegulas have no options is ridiculous.

 

You've set up a scenario for yourself where you will be unhappy either way, either the public will pay for part of the stadium and the Bills will stay or they won't and they won't. You get to be upset either way. Congratulations.

[Rochesterfan]

Just now, TEC said:

 

It's easy to say "***** billionaires, pay for your own stadium or leave town" when it's another city. It's much harder when it's the Bills. 

 

Scam, grift, strong arm, bullying, call it what you want, but citizens and representatives are being played when the write big checks to billionaires who don't need them. That is fundamentally wrong.  I'd actually love for the Pegulas to step up to microphone and explain EXACTLY why they and the NFL can't find the funds for the stadium. 

 

I'm not sure what the parameters for profit sharing or a loan would like, but that's the only route I'd want to go down. Whatever happens, happens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why should they step up and tell you anything?

 

Look around the league - there are several privately financed stadiums and to recoup the cost you have huge PSLs and massive ticket prices and regular fans no longer attend and the games become corporate in nature. See Dallas.
 

There are other stadiums - like what the Pegula’s want - with a public/private mix that has helped maintain ticket prices and fan support. See Pittsburgh

 

 The issue is what are you willing to spend and if you look at the earlier part of this - most people don’t or can’t have a big ticket increase and so what should happen - The Pegula’s like everyone else want to make money to keep the teams active - so the cost is the cost.  People ar paying eithe way - the question is how many people do you want to spread that cost out to.

 

You tax money already pays for multiple new stadiums in and around NYC - multiple new Baseball, basketball, hockey and football.  Your tax money goes to providing tax breaks to many businesses owned by billionaires. 
 

You have an option, you just don’t like it.  Pony up and have a mix of public or private funding or become the next Oakland/SD.

 

I am still hopeful for a mostly public funded stadium because I believe that gives us the best chance at a similar game day experience.  I know it won’t ever recoup the cost, but I am willing to eat that cost for something that makes my life better rather than seeing that money flow elsewhere to be spent on things that do not benefit me at all.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

19 minutes ago, TEC said:

 

It's easy to say "***** billionaires, pay for your own stadium or leave town" when it's another city. It's much harder when it's the Bills. 

 

Scam, grift, strong arming, bullying, call it what you want, but citizens and representatives are being played when they write big checks to billionaires who don't need them. That is fundamentally wrong.  I'd actually love for the Pegulas to step up to microphone and explain EXACTLY why they and the NFL are incapable of financing the stadium. Let the reporters grill them for 60 minutes and let's see if it's still an urgent priority. 

 

I'm not sure what the parameters for profit sharing would like, but that's the only route I'd want to go down. No public money to the Bills for nothing, and whatever happens, happens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Buffalo is too small to play hardball. You want to be in the NFL? You have to subsidize. This isn't Dallas, LA or even Las Vegas where a $5B stadium will pay itself off. You may not like it but it's a fact.

[That's No Moon]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Buffalo is too small to play hardball. You want to be in the NFL? You have to subsidize. This isn't Dallas, LA or even Las Vegas where a $5B stadium will pay itself off. You may not like it but it's a fact.

And many of those got tax subsidies which just another way of giving public money to a project so those aren't even fully privately funded.

[buffblue]

4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Why should they step up and tell you anything?

 

Look around the league - there are several privately financed stadiums and to recoup the cost you have huge PSLs and massive ticket prices and regular fans no longer attend and the games become corporate in nature. See Dallas.
 

There are other stadiums - like what the Pegula’s want - with a public/private mix that has helped maintain ticket prices and fan support. See Pittsburgh

 

 The issue is what are you willing to spend and if you look at the earlier part of this - most people don’t or can’t have a big ticket increase and so what should happen - The Pegula’s like everyone else want to make money to keep the teams active - so the cost is the cost.  People ar paying eithe way - the question is how many people do you want to spread that cost out to.

 

You tax money already pays for multiple new stadiums in and around NYC - multiple new Baseball, basketball, hockey and football.  Your tax money goes to providing tax breaks to many businesses owned by billionaires. 
 

You have an option, you just don’t like it.  Pony up and have a mix of public or private funding or become the next Oakland/SD.

 

I am still hopeful for a mostly public funded stadium because I believe that gives us the best chance at a similar game day experience.  I know it won’t ever recoup the cost, but I am willing to eat that cost for something that makes my life better rather than seeing that money flow elsewhere to be spent on things that do not benefit me at all.

 

 

To me the points you are making are really not that hard to grasp. It's pretty simple, actually. For whatever reason some folks get hung up on these broad notions of how things should work in a perfect world, but fail to get informed about the details and reality of the situation. It's easier just to complain.

[TEC]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Buffalo is too small to play hardball. You want to be in the NFL? You have to subsidize. This isn't Dallas, LA or even Las Vegas where a $5B stadium will pay itself off. You may not like it but it's a fact.

 

The league doesn't play hardball anyway. Terry doesn't have to stand at the podium and please his case. Give us our money, or we leave. Paulie said it better in Goodfellas - '***** you, pay me'. 

 

That's the reality. Y'all are right - give the Bills a ton of public funds, or they will find a new city (Is it San Diego or St Louis now? Austin? I can't keep up). The loyalty the Pegulas claimed to have would quickly evaporate without an influx of public money, Bills fandom be damned.

 

I appreciate what San Diego and Oakland did. Not because they didn't love their team, not because they weren't loyal fans, but they just realized that when the rubber meets the road, public money is better spent elsewhere, and they had the balls to call out the ultra-wealthy.  Of course, we don't like that reality, because again, who can fathom the team leaving. 

 

Sounds like ya'll are ready to cut your check. Good luck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[That's No Moon]

7 minutes ago, TEC said:

 

The league doesn't play hardball anyway. Terry doesn't have to stand at the podium and please his case. Give us our money, or we leave. Paulie said it better in Goodfellas - '***** you, pay me'. 

 

That's the reality. Y'all are right - give the Bills a ton of public funds, or they will find a new city (Is it San Diego or St Louis now? Austin? I can't keep up). The loyalty the Pegulas claimed to have would quickly evaporate without an influx of public money, Bills fandom be damned.

 

I appreciate what San Diego and Oakland did. Not because they didn't love their team, not because they weren't loyal fans, but they just realized that when the rubber meets the road, public money is better spent elsewhere, and they had the balls to call out the ultra-wealthy.  Of course, we don't like that reality, because again, who can fathom the team leaving. 

 

Sounds like ya'll are ready to cut your check. Good luck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's been swell. Bye. 

[klos63]

1 hour ago, Fdapats said:

Everyone has a price

If by any slim chance , the parties do not agree on a stadium financing package, they'll move before they sell. NFL teams print money, especially in cities not named Buffalo.

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Here's the problem. All of us know the economic argument. We know this. If that's the argument you want to stick with you are right, they should let the Bills leave. I'm not sure how many people actually agree with that because that is the real discussion. Enter a partnership where the public pays a significant portion and higher ticket prices, or watch NFL football on TV forever. Those are the options, no bloviation is required. There is no perfect world where the billionaires pay for their own stuff. Do you want it or not yes or no. 

 

They just said they won't sign a lease extension without a stadium deal. What do you think that means?

That isn't an option. The NFL made it against their own rules after Green Bay. You can't do it so anything related to this line of thinking is a wish and a waste of time.

 

It doesn't mean they're going to sell. They would move if it came to that.

[klos63]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

What I meant was the media only reports anything negative regarding this and not the positive. Guys like Florio and ESPN like to try and stir controversy as much as possible and not report the positive. 

I get what you were trying to say, but the example you gave, the report that the initial meeting went well, contradicts the point you were trying to make. They reported the positive news of the first meeting.