Is the AFC East the toughest for a new HC?

[buffalo2218]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Heard this on Cowherd, and I have to say I agree. The Jets rookie QB and coach will have it harder here because of who else is in the division.

 

Buffalo - Your HC actually turned the culture around and has probably a top 4 team in the NFL

 

Miami - Flores has amazed me at least, at how far he has gotten Miami in just 2 years. The Culture there is changing as well.

 

New England — A lot will argue BB is the GOAT of HC, most will say he is the best HC right now. He did pretty good last year with a JV squad that talent level was almost last in the NFL.

 

so do you guys agree the AFC East has the toughest group of HC. 

I can’t agree with Flores given the Watson situation. Tagovoloa was yanked twice last year which showed impatience and this thing with Watson shows the same thing despite his “Tua is our guy” BS. If we pulled the trigger on Allen that fast, this fan base would be in chaos to this day.

 

All Flores is showing right now is that as a head coach, he doesn’t want to do the hard part of letting a QB take his lumps and let him develop if last year and the last few days are any indication 

 

 

 

[Ghost_002!]

3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Andy Reid was considered the worst game day coach in football until Patrick Mahomes happened upon him.  Belichick embarrassed McVay on the biggest stage.  Bill waited out the QBs headset to change his defensive calls and Goff and McVay had nothing.

 

McDermott with the exception of 2 games against KC has looked every bit up to the task of going toe to toe with the leagues best coaches including victories over Belichick, Tomlin, McVay, Shanahan, Harbaugh.  The Bills have been prepared to play every week and put out blue prints on dismantling some of the leagues top defenses and made some high flying offenses look pedestrian.  

 

The only thing separating McDermott from being considered among the best coaches in the league is a title.

Just curious, what teams were these? And I do not doubt that he is a very good coach but I have not heard anyone say "teams are following what the bills did after playing such and such.."

[TFBillsfan]

Right now the majority of the AFC is harder for a new head coach than the NFC.  You could make the case for 10 to 11 AFC teams who are competitive enough to make the playoff. NFC has maybe 5 solid teams this year. 

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

I mean…who is saying “oh god, we have to go up against McDermott’s bend but don’t break defense this week?”  😂 No is saying “oh I wonder what sorts of tricks and what not McDermott is going to throw at the opponent this week.”

 

McDermott has top 5 defense for years known for confusing opposing QBs. Has average defense for 1 year and now he doesn't know what he's doing and just motivates players. 

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. 

[PatsFanNH]

5 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

If that is a legit criteria then you have to include Jon Gruden and his stock has slipped massively. probably why the pats fan started this thread so he/she can bask in the glory of the greatest cheating HC in NFL history.

I said the AFC East Coach’s not jut NE. I started it because I heard it on Cowherd show, wanted see what people thought. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

6 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Flo and McDermott are good leaders.  Rah Rah guys with strong attention to detail.

 

but no one is confusing them with the chess strategic minds of the nfl changing the game.

 

they are more in the vein of Harbaugh and Tomlin.

 

as opposed to the Bellichick, Reid’s, Payton and McVays of the world.

 

 

so basically…no new coach to the AFC East should feel overwhelmed by the opposing head coaches (except for Belichick)

 

new coaches should feel overwhelmed because of the teams the franchises in the division hve built from top to bottom.

 

Can't argue with Bellichick, Payton, and Reid, but McVay??  What exactly has he done and is still doing?  Other than changing QB's.  Recall couple years back hearing on the radio about the genius of McVay and Peterson in Philly.  That's worked well there!

[Protocal69]

10 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

IDK, if a coach is a rah-rah coach like McD, he is considered by most to not be an x's and o's guy. I don't think that is the case and I base that on the whooping McD gave belicheat last year. Belichek may have changed the league into an X's and O's league, but now it has changed. McD is definitely a cerebral coach. McD is always pushing in all three phases and deserves a lot of credit. Remember he quickly fired what's his name and hired Daboll. He also gave Daboll free reign and supplied his offense with what it needed. I don't think you give Daboll 100% credit for Allen's rise. McD deserves some love here too. And if you watched that game vs. NE last year you saw that the Bills won in all three phases solidly.

You could say Belichek looked like a dope.....

 

PS - I have been calling for a second AFC East Sweep again this season and I Billieve it.

 

PSS - I also predict that the fish are not going to make the playoffs. Yeah, that's right. They are not as good as fans think. NE and Buffalo will sweep them, imho..... (NE will lose to Buffalo because we are an elite team, but NE is good and will beat up on Miami too.) Miami is loaded at receiver and in the secondary. Unfortunately, not anywhere else..... And I think the Bills got the better player in the draft. I think Miami's end will always battle injuries..... Groot is just a stud. Wait until next year when Groot gets used to the NFL and gets another offseason lifting weights.

 

 

 

Go Bills!

Finally someone who sees the light regarding the Dolphins. Everyone considers Flores a good coach but I dont see it. Look at how Grier and Flores are handling Tua. 1st the benching in 2020 and now the Deshawn Watson talk. Plus hiring of two OC's not to mention the Xavier Howard situation. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Protocal69

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Flo and McDermott are good leaders.  Rah Rah guys with strong attention to detail.

 

but no one is confusing them with the chess strategic minds of the nfl changing the game.

 

they are more in the vein of Harbaugh and Tomlin.

 

as opposed to the Bellichick, Reid’s, Payton and McVays of the world.

 

 

You don't think Sean McDermott is a strategic mind of the NFL? He is one of the very best defensive minds out there. I get it people look at football, they think innovation and they automatically default to offense. Some of the coverage packages McDermott and Frazier were running, particularly in 2019 (they dialled it back a bit in 2020 when the defense struggled early) were pretty complex.

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Can't argue with Bellichick, Payton, and Reid, but McVay??  What exactly has he done and is still doing?  Other than changing QB's.  Recall couple years back hearing on the radio about the genius of McVay and Peterson in Philly.  That's worked well there!

 

McVay has really struggled to adapt since Matt Patricia showed the league how to stop or at least slow his offense. All he did is blame the struggles on Goff and change Quarterbacks. But the truth is his scheme was worked out.

Edited August 31, 2021 by GunnerBill

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

I mean…who is saying “oh god, we have to go up against McDermott’s bend but don’t break defense this week?”  😂 No is saying “oh I wonder what sorts of tricks and what not McDermott is going to throw at the opponent this week."

 

Really, honestly, you are wrong about this. The Bills defense was one of the most complex and high level schemes in the league in 2018 and particularly 2019. There was a really good post about it on here from @Buffalo716 a couple of years ago about the complexity of their coverage schemes and how they were confusing  offenses on a regular basis by not giving them what they thought they were getting at the snap.

 

EDIT: I found a couple of threads:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/224802-how-mcdermott-and-frazier-confuse-offenses/

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/220719-what-i-liked-about-today-and-all-season/

 

Read those. Some of what the Bills have done with their coverage schemes is pretty advanced. To suggest it is just some vanilla "bend but don't break" scheme is off the mark. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by GunnerBill

[hondo in seattle]

15 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Flo and McDermott are good leaders.  Rah Rah guys with strong attention to detail.

 

but no one is confusing them with the chess strategic minds of the nfl changing the game.

 

they are more in the vein of Harbaugh and Tomlin.

 

as opposed to the Bellichick, Reid’s, Payton and McVays of the world.

 

 

so basically…no new coach to the AFC East should feel overwhelmed by the opposing head coaches (except for Belichick)

 

new coaches should feel overwhelmed because of the teams the franchises in the division hve built from top to bottom.

 

 

When I think of coaches who changed the game, certain names come to mind...  Don Coryell ("Air Coryell"), Bills Walsh ("West Coast offense"), Tony Dungy ("Tampa 2 Defense")...  

 

McDermott isn't  in that category.  But neither was Vince Lombardi who focused on effort and execution rather than innovation.  

 

I'm okay with McD just being a 'good leader.'  

 

(And, btw, I think Coryell should be in the Hall of Fame).

 

[May Day 10]

The AFC in general is a bear right now.

 

McDermott was able to sneak the Bills into a flukey wild card spot with Tyrod in his first year with some thanks to the AFC being very mediocre at the time.  That gained him some credibility with players and fans as well as created some nice momentum (although they took a step back by design in year 2).

 

There is no hiding in the AFC now.  

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

When I think of coaches who changed the game, certain names come to mind...  Don Coryell ("Air Coryell"), Bills Walsh ("West Coast offense"), Tony Dungy ("Tampa 2 Defense")...  

 

McDermott isn't  in that category.  But neither was Vince Lombardi who focused on effort and execution rather than innovation.  

 

I'm okay with McD just being a 'good leader.'  

 

(And, btw, I think Coryell should be in the Hall of Fame).

 

 

There is quite a large gap between the HoF level innovators and "just a rah, rah coach" who plays a simple "bend but don't break defense". McDermott is one of the best defensive minds in the game. He is a good Xs and Os coach and his defences have been some of the most complex schematically in the league in recent years. Is he changing the game? No. But the combination coverages that he plays are pretty creative and not that many teams in the NFL are running as much of that complex stuff as he is. Is Sean McVay (who the poster I replied to is badging as innovative) changing the game running Mike Shanahan's offense but with the jet motion pre-snap? Take the jet motion away and McVay could be running the 1995 Denver Broncos offense. It is why he is on a 4 game losing streak against the 49ers.... because Kyle Shanahan knows Sean McVay's offense better than Sean McVay does. 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

When I think of coaches who changed the game, certain names come to mind...  Don Coryell ("Air Coryell"), Bills Walsh ("West Coast offense"), Tony Dungy ("Tampa 2 Defense")...  

 

McDermott isn't  in that category.  But neither was Vince Lombardi who focused on effort and execution rather than innovation.  

 

I'm okay with McD just being a 'good leader.'  

 

(And, btw, I think Coryell should be in the Hall of Fame).

 

And honestly that’s all I was saying.

 

he is a wonderful leader.  But the topic of this thread was Coaches that are tough or scare you.

 

as leader…yeah he’s pretty tip top.

as a a game day coach…if the rosters are equal…yeah I don’t think he is above the average coach.

[Success]

No one in this division has proven anything yet. BB's credentials are unimpeachable - but he also hasn't won anything without Brady yet.

 

I don't see it as different from too many other divisions.

 

[Buffalo716]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Really, honestly, you are wrong about this. The Bills defense was one of the most complex and high level schemes in the league in 2018 and particularly 2019. There was a really good post about it on here from @Buffalo716 a couple of years ago about the complexity of their coverage schemes and how they were confusing  offenses on a regular basis by not giving them what they thought they were getting at the snap.

 

EDIT: I found a couple of threads:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/224802-how-mcdermott-and-frazier-confuse-offenses/

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/220719-what-i-liked-about-today-and-all-season/

 

Read those. Some of what the Bills have done with their coverage schemes is pretty advanced. To suggest it is just some vanilla "bend but don't break" scheme is off the mark. 

Thanks for the bump and nice find! 

 

There is no reason imo to think that McDermott and co will not continue with the complexity of the defense because of how vet laden it is 

 

The complexity he gets in the back half is second to none in the league rn... Some coaches do it with funky formations... Sean gets it done with xs and os

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

as a a game day coach…if the rosters are equal…yeah I don’t think he is above the average coach.

 

As a game day coach in terms of what? In terms of scheme certainly defensively he is above the average coach. In terms of go for it / kick a field goal / punt / timeout usage / challenges..... I think there are still some legitimate questions. Especially challenges. 

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Thanks for the bump and nice find! 

 

There is no reason imo to think that McDermott and co will not continue with the complexity of the defense because of how vet laden it is 

 

The complexity he gets in the back half is second to none in the league rn... Some coaches do it with funky formations... Sean gets it done with xs and os

 

No worries. They were two of the best threads on this board in the last couple of years. I agree in terms of coverage scheme complexity the Bills are as advanced schematically as anyone in the league. For other posters to suggest teams don't go into games against him thinking "man we are gonna have a challenge today with that D" is way off the mark.