Bills trading Daryll Johnson to the Panthers for 6th rd pick

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Addison and Johnson have totally different roles on the team. Addison is a rotational pass rusher. Johnson was just a special teams gunner. He was never going to see the field on defense. I don't know how many gunners we need but we still have Jones, Neal, and Kumerow on the roster. If McDermott and Farwell decide we only need two gunners then Kumerow is probably gone.

 

I'd let Jones go before Kumerow as he also provides much more offensive prowess than Jones does.  How much ST drop off is there between the 2 when factoring in the number of touchbacks too.  Do you the gunners change things all that much

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I don't think the Bills hand was forced on this. 

 

Don't give T Jones a roster spot, cut Addison. 

 

Seems short-sighted to trade a 24-year old for a 6th Round pick. 

 

How does that make the team any better? He was a 7th Round pick that stuck on the roster for 2-years. And he had the size you can't teach. 

 

Addison is a FA bust, not sure why he is allowed to hang around over a player you drafted and developed. 

[thunderingsquid]

Hoping this means that we have improved on teams and that our even younger d lineman are working out/impressing.  

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Thought I read early on that Obada was playing ST??

 

Suppose too politically it just didn't make any sense for Carolina to trade for Obada, would make them look rather dumb.

They might have tried him at ST but he didn’t play there during the preseason

[GunnerBill]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

As a pass rusher I don't think he's progressed at all. A lot of people in this thread are conflating "developing" with "young." Some players hit the NFL as good as they'll ever be. I don't see Johnson ever being more than a depth piece as a pass rusher. I'm guessing the Panthers traded for him for his special teams ability, and we have more than enough special teams players on the roster to get something back for one. I'm surprised this is even a controversial trade. Before training camp I had assumed Johnson would end up not making the team and he didn't do anything in camp or preseason to change that outlook.

 

Agree that there isn't a lot of obvious development but I thought he had a nice pre-season in terms of the games. No idea if he replicated it in camp. I didn't have him making the roster when pre-season began but he would have been on my 53 as of this morning and Obada (great camp, disappointing pre-season games) and Addison (my views are well known) would have been at greater risk to my mind. 

 

Not that I think this is a trade that makes no sense. I get it. I don't think it is a ridiculous mistake or anything, but I likely wouldn't have gone that way. 

[HappyDays]

Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I'd let Jones go before Kumerow as he also provides much more offensive prowess than Jones does.  How much ST drop off is there between the 2 when factoring in the number of touchbacks too.  Do you the gunners change things all that much

 

I am somewhere between Gunner's and your view on this. I do think special teams matters, to a point. When the coaches say Taiwan Jones is an elite gunner I take their word for it. That makes him worth a roster spot because he does prevent actual yards gained. Neither Kumerow or Jones are going to contribute on offense at all. It's hard to see Kumerow ever seeing the field with this WR depth. So between the two I take the better gunner which is Jones.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I'd let Jones go before Kumerow as he also provides much more offensive prowess than Jones does.  How much ST drop off is there between the 2 when factoring in the number of touchbacks too.  Do you think the gunners change things all that much

 

I do. And the Bills do. 

[TC in St. Louis]

Bam was an ace on special teams.  He worked hard at becoming a good defensive end, but his best moments seemed to be in preseason.  Rather than cutting him, Beane did the team and Bam a favor.  I wish him well.  

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I think that they don't believe Johnson has progressed enough in his first 2 years.  Plus Addison is a veteran and trading/cutting him would leave a pretty green DE room.  I'll certainly keep an ear out for Johnson on the Panthers (and hope that Addison outplays him).

 

I doubt Johnson is going to play a lot of defensive snaps for the Panthers either. He will be a depth piece and a core special teamer. My view is just that I only really see Addison as a depth piece here and without the special team ability. I get the experience point, I also think - as I said earlier - there is likely a trust point with a popular vet in the locker room at play, and I totally get that too. I see why they made this decision. I'd have made a different one that's all. 

[FilthyBeast]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't think the Bills hand was forced on this. 

 

Don't give T Jones a roster spot, cut Addison. 

 

Seems short-sighted to trade a 24-year old for a 6th Round pick. 

 

How does that make the team any better? He was a 7th Round pick that stuck on the roster for 2-years. And he had the size you can't teach. 

 

Addison is a FA bust, not sure why he is allowed to hang around over a player you drafted and developed. 

 

This front office and coaching staff obviously values Addison more than the fans, or they are too stubborn to admit it was a mistake to sign him, restructure, etc.

 

Either way there's not many teams out there that would give up even a 7th round pick for 34 old declining player with his type of salary which is why I hoped at the very least we could have swapped him for a DB or OL veteran at a similar age/price.

 

Regarding Johnson, yes it would have been great to keep him but aside from ST how many snaps was he going to see on this team at DE this year? So getting a 6th rounder (which could be closer to a 5th rounder in reality depending on where the Panthers finish) is not a bad deal vs cutting him outright for nothing.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

I am somewhere between Gunner's and your view on this. I do think special teams matters, to a point. When the coaches say Taiwan Jones is an elite gunner I take their word for it. That makes him worth a roster spot because he does prevent actual yards gained. Neither Kumerow or Jones are going to contribute on offense at all. It's hard to see Kumerow ever seeing the field with this WR depth. So between the two I take the better gunner which is Jones.

 

The Bills led the league in going 4 WR from scrimmage where as mostly only have one RB on the field on any given play  WR's are also subbed in and out after making a long run down the field so I don't think its a stretch at all to see Kumerow playing.  Barring a mid game injury, I agree Jones will never play on offense.

 

What I am waiting to see is if this season the Bills decide to keep 3 ACTUAL RB active on gameday (sorry but don't can Jones a real RB) to have the speed factor there when/if needed.  That also could factor into not keeping Jones IMO if they deside to make Bierda active on Sundays

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

Wow a lot of hard feelings about Johnson getting dealt. Never knew he has such a contingent of fans. He only got to hold the Duke Williams mantle for a few days 😄

 

Maybe its a mix of the Addison dislike too. I'm not a big Addison fan either, but making a trade takes 2 parties. It's no wonder a team was more interested in a younger, cheaper guy with 2 years left on his contract, than an older more expensive one with only one and a $2million dollar bonus due. (looked at over the cap)

 

As for cutting Addison him, it looks like a nasty hit post June 1, and OBD would rather get something than nothing. I'd inactivate him and keep him fresh in the event he needs to fill in as an injury replacement, or if one of the young guys is struggling really badly.

 

Given the situation, getting a 6th for my #7DE is a solid move.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

Wow a lot of hard feelings about Johnson getting dealt. Never knew he has such a contingent of fans. He only got to hold the Duke Williams mantle for a few days 😄

 

Maybe its a mix of the Addison dislike too. I'm not a big Addison fan either, but making a trade takes 2 parties. It's no wonder a team was more interested in a younger, cheaper guy with 2 years left on his contract, than an older more expensive one with only one and a $2million dollar bonus due. (looked at over the cap)

 

As for cutting Addison him, it looks like a nasty hit post June 1, and OBD would rather get something than nothing. I'd inactivate him and keep him fresh in the event he needs to fill in as an injury replacement, or if one of the young guys is struggling really badly.

 

Given the situation, getting a 6th for my #7DE is a solid move.

 

I certainly agree Johnson had more trade value than Addison.

[aceman_16]

15 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't think the Bills hand was forced on this. 

 

Don't give T Jones a roster spot, cut Addison. 

 

Seems short-sighted to trade a 24-year old for a 6th Round pick. 

 

How does that make the team any better? He was a 7th Round pick that stuck on the roster for 2-years. And he had the size you can't teach. 

 

Addison is a FA bust, not sure why he is allowed to hang around over a player you drafted and developed. 

Because of his contract....simple enough.

[Mat68]

9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't think the Bills hand was forced on this. 

 

Don't give T Jones a roster spot, cut Addison. 

 

Seems short-sighted to trade a 24-year old for a 6th Round pick. 

 

How does that make the team any better? He was a 7th Round pick that stuck on the roster for 2-years. And he had the size you can't teach. 

 

Addison is a FA bust, not sure why he is allowed to hang around over a player you drafted and developed. 

I disagree.  Pass rusher is one of the easier transitions from college to pros on the defensive side of the ball.  Johnson does not bring anything to the table as a pass rusher entering year 4.  Mario Addison in the worst season of his career was significantly better Johnson.

 

 I don't see Johnson as anything more than a core special teamer.  With Neal, Jones and Mykevich(sp) how many core teams players can you keep?  Give me DEs who can rush the passer, the one they cant they snagged a 6th rder in return seems like a net gain. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Process said:

 

Interesting. Johnson has looked good, would much rather have traded or cut Addison, who at this point brings very little to the table. 

 

At the end of the day someone had to go, so can't be mad at getting a draft pick out of it. 

 

 

I suspect this trade has the potential to wind up like the Teller trade where we kept Spencer Long.  We traded a young player under rookie contract and kept an expensive vet for 1 season.  The young player blossomed.

 

But looked at in the context of that pre-season, it made sense - the Bills were determined to upgrade at center, Morse was out with concussion, Long had actually played C in the NFL so if Morse got concussed again he gave us an NFL-proven option.  It turned out that Morse played all 16 games and Long only came in for part of 2 games (one mid season and the finale).

 

I think the Bills are determined to upgrade their pass rush without sacrificing too much in the run game, and Johnson sat on the bench against the Ravens.  The price of that decision is keeping an overpriced, underperforming vet around for a year 🤷‍♂️

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I disagree.  Pass rusher is one of the easier transitions from college to pros on the defensive side of the ball.  Johnson does not bring anything to the table as a pass rusher entering year 4.  Mario Addison in the worst season of his career was significantly better Johnson.

 

 I don't see Johnson as anything more than a core special teamer.  With Neal, Jones and Mykevich(sp) how many core teams players can you keep?  Give me DEs who can rush the passer, the one they cant they snagged a 6th rder in return seems like a net gain. 

 

He is entering year 3, not year 4. 

[Kelly the Dog]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is fewer snaps, I get that, but special teams errors can be momentum swings they can be easy scores, they are stolen possessions. Just looking at the numbers and saying "ah well it isn't a third of the game numerically" misses the point for me. Nobody is arguing it is as important as offense or defense but it isn't an after thought and if you treat it like that you will suffer. And it isn't just me that thinks this.... a lot of the best coaches in the NFL do too. I don't have the Bills 2018 special team yards given up to hand but it was a lot and it hurt the team. Equally I know Roberts had the best overall return numbers across two disciplines in the league last year. That helped the team.

I agree with what you say in theory and application. That said, they keep Matekevitch strictly for ST. Neal is a star on ST. A couple other Bills are very good. They use starters Poyer and Hyde and others too. Good to great ST guys are important as you say, but there is an overdoing it point too. Especially when these great guys make seven tackles a year and we now have two kickers that lessen ST needs. 

[YoloinOhio]

I’m pretty sure it wasnt either Bam Johnson or Mario Addison. Addison was staying either way. 

[HappyDays]

 

Interesting theory from Joe:

 

Quote

I went through my notes & found it interesting that DE Darryl Johnson was not on the opening KR unit vs. GB and perhaps a hint. The Bills used a lot of players that are likely to figure into the 2021 roster:

RB Taiwan Jones, FB Reggie Gilliam, WR Marquez Stevenson, WR Jake Kumerow, TE Jake Hollister, DE AJ Epenesa, LB A.J. Klein, LB Tyler Matakevich, LB Andre Smith, CB Siran Neal, S Damar Hamlin