Bills cuts to get to 53 [final info in the OP]

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He had 7 special team tackles last season. That tied him for 69th in special teams tackles.  

I would have kept an extra CB or safety over Jones. But honestly none of the DBs they cut deserve to make the team either.

Hope so. Zimmer seems like a coach favorite so that would only leave Butler as the odd man out at DT. But like others said, just give it time and see who gets dinged up in the first few weeks 

 

I know the numbers. I am more interested in the tape. Jones should be on this team without a doubt. On DT I think Phillips likely goes on IR initially. I suspect Butler if anyone would get cut when he comes back. 

[Rocky Landing]

11 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He had 7 special team tackles last season. That tied him for 69th in special teams tackles.  

I would have kept an extra CB or safety over Jones. But honestly none of the DBs they cut deserve to make the team either.

 

And how many times did we punt last season?

[eball]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What happens every single offseason is fans fall in love with certain fringe roster players. It happens every year with guys who are going to be the 5th, 6th, hell even 7th option at a particular spot. Then they try and fit them onto the 53 they have in their heads and in order to make them fit the special teams guy is the "easy" cut. 

 

There are a lot of posters I respect whose takes I am generally pretty aligned with who think Jake Kumerow likely has more impact as the 6th receiver on this team than Taiwan Jones does as a starting gunner. That is crazy to me. If you look at the two receivers who spent time on this roster last year as their 6th and 7th choice guys - Kumerow and Andre Roberts - they were targeted a combined 6 times over the course of the season. 6 targets. The year before they carried 6 receivers all year with Roberts as the 6th and he was targeted 7 times the entire year. I just can't buy that a guy in that spot on the depth chart is giving you more than a starting gunner.

 

None of which is to say I didn't want Kumerow and Stevenson on this team. I had them both making it and Jones making it and that is how it transpired. But the next thing will be outcry when Taiwan Jones is active week 1 and Stevenson plus either Kumerow or Breida is not. To me Jones is a starter. I consider certain positions on special teams - the two gunner spots, the personal protector on punt team and the return man (or men if you have separate kick and punt returners) - as starters. I'm not giving up my starter in any of those spots for a depth player somewhere else. Now of course you should always be trying to find guys for those spots (and for your wedge positions on punt return and for your wing protectors on punts etc) who can also give you valuable depth on offense and defense. But the Bills have done a really good job at that. Jones is the only guy on this roster (aside from the 3 specialists once Reid is restored) who is there without offering that depth elsewhere. You can't keep 4 or 5 guys like that, I agree. But you can keep 1 when he is as effective as Jones. 

 

Terrific post, particularly the line I bolded.  I’m already waiting for the week 1 list of inactives and anticipating the posts in the pre-game thread.

 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Phillips might not come back. I had him making the roster and not Zimmer. But Phillips just has not been good. My guess is they injury settlement him in a few weeks.

 

This is absolutely 100% wrong on multiple levels.

 

1st and top of list - if he was “not coming back” the Bills would of either IRd him prior to cuts or waived injured him like Duke.  They wouldn’t be wasting a 53 man roster spot on him.  They wouldn’t cut extra bodies they want and keep him on the active roster so they could injury settle him in 2 weeks.

 

2nd - most media and coaching staff that you hear from practice and when you watch games have been talking about how good he has been doing.  The talk was how strong he has been at the point of attack.  He and Zimmer were not competing because they play different roles.  Phillips was competing for playing time with Star and how the team wants to use Butler.

 

Phillips will be here for the season and although depending on the injury - he may start on the IR list - I would expect him to be back and be a big part of the D-line rotation on early downs.  I also expect they will work to re-sign and keep him to allow Star to move on after this season.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[jlgarsh]

14 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He had 7 special team tackles last season. That tied him for 69th in special teams tackles.  

I would have kept an extra CB or safety over Jones. But honestly none of the DBs they cut deserve to make the team either.

Hope so. Zimmer seems like a coach favorite so that would only leave Butler as the odd man out at DT. But like others said, just give it time and see who gets dinged up in the first few weeks 

I mean he had fewer tackles because the Bills barely punted last year, and most kickoffs were touchbacks. It wasn’t lack of skill

[eball]

I don’t know if it has already been mentioned, but I think this initial roster is a sign that the recent injuries to Levi, Taron, and Dane are not significant.

[Philo]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

I don’t know if it has already been mentioned, but I think this initial roster is a sign that the recent injuries to Levi, Taron, and Dane are not significant.

 

Yup. I trust Beane to not roll with 5 CBs with 3 of them being seriously injured to start the season. I'd wager at least 2, if not all 3, of those guys are gonna be more or less 100% by Week 1. 

[chongli]

2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

IR him before the 53 man roster?  They don’t want to do that because then he is done for the season (can’t practice or get called up) and since his “injury” allowed him to practice before the packers game - the player and agent could seek an injury settlement and the Bills would lose him.

 

IR him on the 53 - then they would of had to cut another player and hope they will not sign and give them an option to come back and that made little sense for a guy that because of injury will most likely clear waivers and be available for the PS.

 

IR was the least likely option once he made it back to practice last week - in my opinion.

 

This is a good re-statement of the rules regarding IR and when and when they cannot be recalled. I wish this was somehow made into a sticky so some might read it and hopefully learn.

[Ta111]

35 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

And how many times did we punt last season?

Not many. Nor do we have many kickoffs returned. So we may have 3 returns per game. The question is do you keep someone for 3 returns per game?

[MasterStrategist]

26 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Terrific post, particularly the line I bolded.  I’m already waiting for the week 1 list of inactives and anticipating the posts in the pre-game thread.

 

Agree, with this and Gunner good post.

 

Additional detail, in case anyone needs a refresher on how many players can dress for gameday in 2021:

 

1. Teams can dress 48, if at least 8 are OL.  If not, then reverts to 47.

 

2. In addition, teams can promote up to 2 players from the Practice Squad per week.  This promotion can only occur 2x for a single player during season, before player must be elevated to the 53-man roster for next eligibility.  Also, can protect up to 4 players on the PS weekly (no limit on how times a single player is protected), so player cannot be signed to another team throughout the week.

 

3.  Essentially equates to a 55-man roster weekly, and selecting 47/48 to dress

 

 

I think that Doyle will be inactive most weeks, along with a combination of Stevenson, Kumerow, Breida, Boogie or Dodson.  That last player to sit will be interesting, as we didn't dress 10 DL much if at all last year

[eball]

@MasterStrategist good info, but I expect Kumerow to be a part of ST on a regular basis…just a thought.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, eball said:

@MasterStrategist good info, but I expect Kumerow to be a part of ST on a regular basis…just a thought.

 

Yea if I had to guess now I'd go Stevenson, Doyle, Dodson, Basham, Breida as your week 1 inactives. If Breida is up maybe Kumerow is down. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea if I had to guess now I'd go Stevenson, Doyle, Dodson, Basham, Breida as your week 1 inactives. If Breida is up maybe Kumerow is down. 

 

Pretty good guess, I'd say.  Depending upon progress of McKenzie's shoulder we might see him inactive and Stevenson up.

 

I think one reason they felt comfortable trading Bam Johnson was they feel Kumerow can provide that big dude flying down the field on ST

[chongli]

29 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree, with this and Gunner good post.

 

Additional detail, in case anyone needs a refresher on how many players can dress for gameday in 2021:

 

1. Teams can dress 48, if at least 8 are OL.  If not, then reverts to 47.

 

2. In addition, teams can promote up to 2 players from the Practice Squad per week.  This promotion can only occur 2x for a single player during season, before player must be elevated to the 53-man roster for next eligibility.  Also, can protect up to 4 players on the PS weekly (no limit on how times a single player is protected), so player cannot be signed to another team throughout the week.

 

3.  Essentially equates to a 55-man roster weekly, and selecting 47/48 to dress

 

 

I think that Doyle will be inactive most weeks, along with a combination of Stevenson, Kumerow, Breida, Boogie or Dodson.  That last player to sit will be interesting, as we didn't dress 10 DL much if at all last year

 

Excellent post!

 

Back in the 80's, teams could dress 45, and then in the 90's, I think, they NFL rules allowed a 3rd QB to dress to make it 46, but he could play only if the 2 ahead of him went down. Do you or anyone else know how and why it went to 47/48? I did not pay attention over the years.

 

Also, I've have been busy as f---, so I haven't really followed all the news. A few more questions (that may have already been answered in this thread):

 

1. When can we place guys on the 53 to IR so we can bring back Ferguson and anyone else?

 

2. Who are the players likely to go on IR then and who is likely to be brought back, besides Ferguson, obviously? (And isn't a little dangerous to release a veteran LS like Ferguson, who is one of the top in the NFL?)

 

3. So 16 can go on the PS, but how many others who were not allowed under past rules are allowed this year on the PS?

 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by chongli

[mikemac2001]

1 minute ago, chongli said:

Who are the players likely to go on IR then and who is likely to be brought back, besides Ferguson, obviously? (And isn't a little dangerous to release a veteran LS like Ferguson, who is one of the top in the NFL?)

I doubt he wants to move for similar pay so they work out an “agreement”

 

He can’t be claimed so his first choice is likely Buffalo 

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, SECRET SQUIRREL said:

"Almost lost me a $400 dollar hand cart!"

 

Jumpin' around like a bunch of Kansas City Chiefs...

[The Dean]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What happens every single offseason is fans fall in love with certain fringe roster players. It happens every year with guys who are going to be the 5th, 6th, hell even 7th option at a particular spot. Then they try and fit them onto the 53 they have in their heads and in order to make them fit the special teams guy is the "easy" cut. 

 

There are a lot of posters I respect whose takes I am generally pretty aligned with who think Jake Kumerow likely has more impact as the 6th receiver on this team than Taiwan Jones does as a starting gunner. That is crazy to me. If you look at the two receivers who spent time on this roster last year as their 6th and 7th choice guys - Kumerow and Andre Roberts - they were targeted a combined 6 times over the course of the season. 6 targets. The year before they carried 6 receivers all year with Roberts as the 6th and he was targeted 7 times the entire year. I just can't buy that a guy in that spot on the depth chart is giving you more than a starting gunner.

 

None of which is to say I didn't want Kumerow and Stevenson on this team. I had them both making it and Jones making it and that is how it transpired. But the next thing will be outcry when Taiwan Jones is active week 1 and Stevenson plus either Kumerow or Breida is not. To me Jones is a starter. I consider certain positions on special teams - the two gunner spots, the personal protector on punt team and the return man (or men if you have separate kick and punt returners) - as starters. I'm not giving up my starter in any of those spots for a depth player somewhere else. Now of course you should always be trying to find guys for those spots (and for your wedge positions on punt return and for your wing protectors on punts etc) who can also give you valuable depth on offense and defense. But the Bills have done a really good job at that. Jones is the only guy on this roster (aside from the 3 specialists once Reid is restored) who is there without offering that depth elsewhere. You can't keep 4 or 5 guys like that, I agree. But you can keep 1 when he is as effective as Jones. 

 

Very well put. 

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

No real surprises here. Congrats to Zimmer, Hamlin and Stevenson who had excellent showings in the preseason.

 

The Ferguson cut has been covered ad nauseum.

 

The Hollister cut, if it stands, would be a moderate surprise given the lack of depth at TE and a solid pre-season.

Perhaps they are going the Ferguson route with him, or have an eye on another TE?

 

The Bam Johnson trade was probably the best value that could be obtained to gain something in a crowded DL room.

The Butler and Addison contracts probably came into play a bit in the decision, both internally and with trade partners.

 

Will be interesting to see who gets the temporary IR move and who is called back.

 

As for the PS I hope Cam Lewis and Nick McCloud come back, or a vet is brought in as callable depth.

 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Jumpin' around like a bunch of Kansas City Chiefs...

 

Well done!

[chongli]

18 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

I doubt he wants to move for similar pay so they work out an “agreement”

 

He can’t be claimed so his first choice is likely Buffalo 

 

Thanks for the quick answer!