Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 3

[Patrick Duffy]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s just incredibly inconsistent at making an impact…. He’s more so just an athletic gigantic MLB who is easily manipulated, often slow to react and lacks instincts to be really good and consistent at the position…. Until he gets there(or until he’s replaced with someone who can get there) McDs defense will continue to struggle against the better QBs and offenses of the league, IMO. 

I agree he's had some struggles and whatnot. Do you think him being as young as he was when drafted to even now still being very young might make him need a little more time ( as far as a learning process goes)? Or do you think he's had plenty of time by now young or not? Wasn't he like one of the youngest LB's in a long time or ever? Or something like that. He was like 19 when drafted right?

 

I don't know, I'm just saying...some say there's a learning curve to the MLB position. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[Green Lightning]

Short story, Tremaine either puts up or shut up this year. Excuses are over. He's not a big contract investment at this point and I have little confidence he will be. I hope to be wrong.

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Short story, Tremaine either puts up or shut up this year. Excuses are over. He's not a big contract investment at this point and I have little confidence he will be. I hope to be wrong.

 

 

I hate to say it because I was a big fan of drafting him and was hoping he'd be the great cornerstone pass rusher they needed...........but the best thing that could happen would be someone like an Andre Smith having to step in for a long period and then perform at a high level and make enough plays to earn the job away from him.     

 

Probably the biggest key to the Bills defense is having two very reasonably priced playmakers at safety for all these years.   They basically have both of them for the annual money that the Seahawks have in Jamal Adams alone.......and the Seahawks also expended 2 first rounders to get him.  

 

As far from expectation that he has played to this point........it's hard to envision a situation where Edmunds playing at $20M per season at MLB will be anything but a limiting factor for the team going forward.   

[Shaw66]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

1) They only play 2 LB's 90% of the snaps........they have plenty of them and an excess of depth.

 

2) Ridiculously wrong.   They signed Klein to a rather lucrative contract.   He was Kuechly's understudy in Carolina prior to going to New Orleans.  They also signed Tyrel Adams this offseason coming off a 120 tackle season as a starter(and cut him early because they are flush with reserve MLB's).   Andre Smith got a $2M+ per year deal and Tyler Matakevich's deal averaged $4M before it was adjusted.   Ain't nobody working for the minimum in that LB corps.

 

3) Because they are committed to turning his All-Pro physical traits into a commensurate MLB even it it takes a 4th or 5th season.  

 

If there is only one answer,  then I guess the reason that Levi Wallace didn't get any veteran or high draft pick competition is because they think he's like having another first rounder out there?

 

The whole "he gets the job done" mantra belongs with players like Eli..........not players you invest first round picks and potentially a $20M/yr contract too.

 

The intellectual dishonesty on display here is why people ignore you.  

 

You know perfectly well that the Bills never have brought in anyone to compete with Edmunds for the job.   They brought in a parade of backups for, as you say, depth.   Klein can't possibly do what Edmunds does in the passing game, and Matakevich came to be what he is, a special teams player.   Just because they have LB after their names doesn't mean they were brought in to compete with Edmunds.   That's like saying the Bills have Kumerow on the roster to compete with Diggs.  

 

Wallace plays because he's very good at what they want him to do.  Edmunds plays for the same reason.  That the fact their physical skills don't match your concept of what a player should do at his position is completely irrelevant to the conversation.  McDermott took the Bills to the AFC championship game with those two woeful underperformers, and Beane and McDermott found no reason to replace them this season.  

 

McDermott and Beane do NOT leave guys in the lineup for three or four seasons waiting for them to develop.  They do NOT.  

[Patrick Duffy]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I think the young excuse is comical at this point….we’ve heard it for two years now…. he’s only 3 months younger than Devin White and he’s not in the same ballpark as him…. The guys been playing LB for how long now? 

I can understand the young age excuse has played it's course for some too. For me, as far as last season goes I take the injury into account being a factor and I'm not quite ready to write him off just yet.

 

This season hopefully will be more injury free for most part and hope to see him have a good enough year to put all this to rest.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

He hasn't lived up to his potential, but he is not killing this defense either.  He's a solid man coverage linebacker, who plays a ton of zone.  He doesn't tackle with a ton off power, but he's a fine tackler.  Insticntually in the pass game, he has struggled with RPOs and quick hitters over the middle - but that's also a reflection of the game being called.  

 

I was much more disappointed with the play of the interior dline and ends last year.  Pressure came from blitzes, and they were constantly getting gashed through the run game.  Butler and Jefferson struggled all year, phillips was bad and then got hurt, Ed O has been "fine", Zimmer made a few plays obviously but you could also watch him getting thrown down the field by double teams.  Really need the interior to improve and i think the end's play will kind of come along with it.  

[ndirish1978]

I haven't watched game film looking at him specifically, has Tremaine gotten any better disengaging from blocks?

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The intellectual dishonesty on display here is why people ignore you.  

 

You know perfectly well that the Bills never have brought in anyone to compete with Edmunds for the job.   They brought in a parade of backups for, as you say, depth.   Klein can't possibly do what Edmunds does in the passing game, and Matakevich came to be what he is, a special teams player.   Just because they have LB after their names doesn't mean they were brought in to compete with Edmunds.   That's like saying the Bills have Kumerow on the roster to compete with Diggs.  

 

Wallace plays because he's very good at what they want him to do.  Edmunds plays for the same reason.  That the fact their physical skills don't match your concept of what a player should do at his position is completely irrelevant to the conversation.  McDermott took the Bills to the AFC championship game with those two woeful underperformers, and Beane and McDermott found no reason to replace them this season.  

 

McDermott and Beane do NOT leave guys in the lineup for three or four seasons waiting for them to develop.  They do NOT.  

 

 

THIS  is a good example of why John Wawrow called you a slapdick.😂

 

Of course they haven't brought competition in for him........they spent a mid first round pick on him and he's by any account one of the 10-12 best MLB/ILB in the league and playing on a rookie contract.

 

He doesn't stink..........he's the most physically gifted MLB in the league but his inconsistency and lack of big plays are undeniable.

 

And no,  the fact that he has underachieved relative to his talent and may become grossly overpaid for his performance is NOT irrelevant to the conversation.    It could soon be the most important part.

 

And the entire reserve LB corps might end up being guys the Bills signed in free agency......for decent money.........by this time next week.  

 

And you are ignorantly declaring that they haven't signed any.

 

You don't seem to be able to think things thru before you have to emotionally post them..........it ends up being nonsense.

 

 

 

[FilthyBeast]

On 8/29/2021 at 3:37 AM, GunnerBill said:

So the final pre-season game of 2021 is in the books. The Bills went 3-0 to follow 4-0 in 2019 and are now unbeaten in 8 pre-season outings. That usually speaks pretty directly to depth on the roster and there is no doubting this Bills roster is deep, although I think if anything things may have simplified and crystalized a little for Beane and co. last night. So with no further ado...

 

Good Night for...

 

Josh Allen and his starting receivers - I won't labour too long on this and it barely needs mentioning but in his first action of pre-season Allen was on point throwing two absolute bullet touchdowns. The first - to Gabriel Davis on third and long - was a throw only 3 or 4 Quarterbacks in the entire league can make and the second was the definition of tight window to Zack Moss. It was the first pre-season action for Cole Beasley and Emmanuel Sanders too and they had 4 grabs a piece while Davis (who has played in some of the earlier games) had 5 for 75 yards and that score. There were no discernable signs of rust here. Allen and his pass catchers are ready for week 1. 

 

Matt Breida - I liked the low risk pickup of Breida in the offseason but it is fair to say he hasn't exactly popped in the first two pre-season games where they have used him more in a conventional running back mode. Last night he was used in the Isaiah McKenzie role, taking a sweep 16 yards on his only carry and catching a bubble screen too. I wasn't totally sold that he was safe but given McKenzie is nicked up and his ability to give the Bills an option in that package I suspect he is now pretty secure on the 53 as an emergency conventional running back who can also backup McKenzie's gimmick role. 

 

Siran Neal - Not that Siran Neal's roster spot was in any doubt but he had a really good night, he was active and around the football as the starting nickel, had a big tackle on special teams and played some safety in the second half. For those bottom of the roster guys being able to help in multiple ways is always big and Neal again proved his worth. 

 

Damar Hamlin - Talking of backup safeties.... I think Damar Hamlin secured a roster spot last night. He has been battling with Josh Thomas for the 4th safety spot all summer and last night I thought he separated himself. He had a nice pass breakup and he flashed on special teams too. I suspect when you add that to the fact that Thomas is likely the easier one to sneak through to the practice squad the signs point towards Hamlin being on the 53. 

 

Jake Fromm - I think some readers of my previous good night / bad night columns will believe that I am anti-Jake Fromm and nothing could be further from the truth. I still think there were throws last night where the ball hangs in the air because he doesn't generate the requisite velocity and where in regular season play the risk of interceptions would be high. However, this was a nice outing from the former Georgia Quarterback that likely guarantees he is still in the league this year as at least a practice squad guy and possibly even sneaking onto a roster for a team that wants to carry 3 guys. His touchdown run was a cool moment for him. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Cam Lewis - I think Cam Lewis was the one guy who I had on the outside looking in but with a real chance of forcing his way onto the 53 last night. With Dane Jackson and Levi Wallace out and a question about corner depth he got the start opposite Tre White but missed his opportunity. He had a couple of mental errors in coverage that allowed completions and while he was by no means a disaster when McDermott and Beane sit down to go through that film he isn't gonna jump out as a guy they simply can't live without. There might still be a route for him depending on what happens with Jaquan Johnson who has missed the last two games injured. He could be a candidate for IR after the 53 is announced after which they bring back either Lewis (and use Neal as safety depth for the first few weeks) or Josh Thomas. 

 

Cody Ford - Ford, Feliciano and Boettger have been rotating in the guard spots this pre-season. Last night Ford got the start at RG with Feliciano at LG but he did not have a good first drive allowing two pressures - one of which Allen escaped from out to his right and found Singletary for a dump off, the other led to the ball Allen threw into the dirt. He was replaced on the second drive by Boettger who then stayed in on the third drive too and I have to say he played much better. I should add it was Boettger's man who got the hit on Allen on the second touchdown throw, but otherwise he just looked calmer and more balanced in pass protection where Ford looks a bit frantic and less sure with his footwork. I think Ford has the advantage if the Bills want to be a power run team, but this is a pass first offense and as a pass protector.... Boettger is just better right now. I would not be surprised to see the former UDFA start over the former 2nd round pick in two weeks' time. 

 

Backup tackle depth - It has been a theme of the pre-season but Tommy Doyle and Bobby Hart would be liabilities starting in actual NFL games. Both got blown by multiple times and while there are excuses that can be made for Doyle "oh he is a 5th round pick and he is raw" etc the truth is if he was an UDFA nobody would have a single issue about him being on the cut list. I suspect the Bills would like to hang onto him and maybe they even find a way to fit him on the 53 but for me this is the number 1 spot where I look for them to make a move after other teams have made their cuts. 

 

Dion Dawkins - Talking of offensive tackle, and not going over the top here, but Dion doesn't look all the way back yet to me, which is understandable. He got beaten by his guy a couple of times yesterday including on the play where Allen wisely gave himself up for a sack (Daryl Williams was also beaten on the play and Josh had nowhere to go). It is not crisis time by any means but just a reminder to folks that if Dion starts this season slow we should cut him a bit of slack. He still looks short of his ideal playing weight. 

 

Long snapping - It shows where the Bills have been pre-season that I am having to talk about long snapping as a concern. Reid Ferguson having a back issue right before the season is a bit of a worry. That is not the sort of injury that just disappears quickly and it is hard to totally rest a back when long snapping is your job. It is, bizarrely, an area where the Bills miss Lee Smith who has long snapped in an NFL game before now whereas it looked like AJ Epenesa had drawn the short straw trying to do it last night. I suspect Ferguson plays next week but it is almost a guarantee now that the Bills carry a long snapper as one of their 16 practice squad guys so that they have the option of using one of those free "game day call ups" that they have in the event that Reid has a week where he just can't go. 

 

 

We are on to Pittsburgh!

 

 

I still think we are going to make moves for DB and OL help as soon as today.

 

With all the depth we've accumulated at most other positions there's no way we are going to rely on the current depth chart for key positions like this were the Bills have been hit hard by injury in recent years.

 

I've said all along we are a White injury away from having one of the worst DB groups in the league and that can't happen if we want to hang with teams like the Chiefs, let along actually beat them.

[ColoradoBills]

Edmunds does need to improve this year.  We will all get a chance to see if that happens for his $4M cap hit.

Next year he plays for $12.7M.

 

Can we please keep the exaggerated $20M per year talk at lease until next offseason.

Good grief.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

THIS  is a good example of why John Wawrow called you a slapdick.😂

 

Of course they haven't brought competition in for him........they spent a mid first round pick on him and he's by any account one of the 10-12 best MLB/ILB in the league and playing on a rookie contract.

 

He doesn't stink..........he's the most physically gifted MLB in the league but his inconsistency and lack of big plays are undeniable.

 

And no,  the fact that he has underachieved relative to his talent and may become grossly overpaid for his performance is NOT irrelevant to the conversation.    It could soon be the most important part.

 

And the entire reserve LB corps might end up being guys the Bills signed in free agency......for decent money.........by this time next week.  

 

And you are ignorantly declaring that they haven't signed any.

 

You don't seem to be able to think things thru before you have to emotionally post them..........it ends up being nonsense.

 

 

 

 

All I see is you are being ignorant and talking nonsense. Shaw is a respected poster here and love his posts. Other hand you're post is way off the mark.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

THIS  is a good example of why John Wawrow called you a slapdick.

I laughed at this more than I should have lol

[Rocky Landing]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

All I see is you are being ignorant and talking nonsense. Shaw is a respected poster here and love his posts. Other hand you're post is way off the mark.

I'm going to step in and defend both of them. Shaw might be an emotional slapdick, and BADOLBILZ might be just a dick, but they're both respected posters here, they both know a lot about football (more than me, anyway), and these types of debates, contentious though they may be, raise the level of discourse on this site to a height that https://patriotsfans.freeforums.net/, or https://finheaven.com/forums/miami-dolphins-forum.4/, or https://forums.jetnation.com/forum/5-ny-jets-forum/  could only dream of, if they were actually capable of recognizing a coherent debate.

[GunnerBill]

Just to thank everyone for the engagement on all three of the Good Night / Bad Night threads this summer. All three have seen healthy discussion and debate and thanks to all the people who have expressed kind words about the summaries. 

 

They will be back next August  

[BADOLBILZ]

On 8/30/2021 at 1:47 PM, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I laughed at this more than I should have lol

 

 

It was a funny post.   Wawrow was livid and exercised his privilege to insult @Shaw66 after he basically called Wawrow a hack.😂