Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 3

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Anyone who can't acknowledge that his lack of game changing plays is conspicuous is NOT being the least bit objective.

 

I’ll leave it at if Edmunds’ game changing plays or lack thereof was what we were discussing you’d have a point.

[Rico]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Anyone who can't acknowledge that his lack of game changing plays is conspicuous is NOT being the least bit objective.

 

 

 

I miss the weekly updates from the TSW homers on how much better off the Bills were for selecting Big Mike instead of the near universally favored Bryant McKinnie. 😆

It was all Pucillo's fault.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said:

The key to your point’s validity ( my opinion) is that Edmunds hasn’t made a lot of game changing plays. That’s certainly accurate. Judging him as a 1990’s 4-3 MLB ( which is what most of his critics do) would be inaccurate. He is a Nickel backer ( our formation 90% of the time) whose importance to McD’s scheme is mostly related to his length and ability to alter passing lanes or to run and tackle the short routes. I don’t really see the op as making excuses as much as trying to point that out. Edmunds certainly needs to make more impact plays this season.

 

 

I'm not judging him against a mid-1990's MLB..........I'm judging him against his peers.   

 

There is a level of exceptional MLB's who quote "get the job done" and also make game changing plays............Edmunds is not in that level.........mainly because of the lack of big plays but the reality is that he had a 110+ passer rating against and got carved up by QB's last season.    

 

By contrast,  fellow classmate Roquan Smith had a 59.6 passer rating against, 2 interceptions, 1 FF, 4 sacks and 18 TFL.   Half the people arguing about how Edmunds gets a bad rap don't even know who else plays the position.   Fortunately for Edmunds and his agent,  most of the best MLB/ILB's are in the NFC.

 

Edmunds is still probably a top 10 or 12 MLB/ILB.........because there aren't many above average players at the position.........it's devalued for a reason.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I’ll leave it at if Edmunds’ game changing plays or lack thereof was what we were discussing you’d have a point.

 

 

Well you know, the whole "his impact is hard to quantify" thing works a lot better when the results on that side of the ball are extraordinary.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well you know, the whole "his impact is hard to quantify" thing works a lot better when the results on that side of the ball are extraordinary.

2nd, 3rd, 14th ranked defenses respectively since he took over at MLB

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

2nd, 3rd, 14th ranked defenses respectively since he took over at MLB

 

And worth saying - that 14th place was a result of a much improved Bills defense down the stretch when by no coincidence Edmunds played much better after struggling in the first half of 2020. Which both shows Edmunds does have an impact (when he is playing well the Bills D is better) but also that the Bills do still need more out of him - they need more consistency because when he has his off days it affects others too. 

[34-78-83]

30 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'm not judging him against a mid-1990's MLB..........I'm judging him against his peers.   

 

There is a level of exceptional MLB's who quote "get the job done" and also make game changing plays............Edmunds is not in that level.........mainly because of the lack of big plays but the reality is that he had a 110+ passer rating against and got carved up by QB's last season.    

 

By contrast,  fellow classmate Roquan Smith had a 59.6 passer rating against, 2 interceptions, 1 FF, 4 sacks and 18 TFL.   Half the people arguing about how Edmunds gets a bad rap don't even know who else plays the position.   Fortunately for Edmunds and his agent,  most of the best MLB/ILB's are in the NFC.

 

Edmunds is still probably a top 10 or 12 MLB/ILB.........because there aren't many above average players at the position.........it's devalued for a reason.

 

 

I understand your angle however It’s much safer and more accurate to judge him via film review ( ie Turner, or your own) than Vs his peers who don’t necessarily play a 2 lb nickel scheme with the same type of responsibilities. It allows you to see what his role in the defense is much more clearly. With that said I agree he needs to make more impact plays to earn that big second contract.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

I understand your angle however It’s much safer and more accurate to judge him via film review ( ie Turner, or your own) than Vs his peers who don’t necessarily play a 2 lb nickel scheme with the same type of responsibilities. It allows you to see what his role in the defense is much more clearly. With that said I agree he needs to make more impact plays to earn that big second contract.

 

 

Ohhhhhhh.......ok......... let me know how your film review of these vastly different defenses goes. 😉

 

There hasn't been less variance between defense's in the NFL in decades.

[Patrick Duffy]

40 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well you know, the whole "his impact is hard to quantify" thing works a lot better when the results on that side of the ball are extraordinary.

I kinda get both sides of it. Some feel he hasn't lived up to expectations  yet, or at least been more of an "impact MLB" than they feel he has considering he was a high pick at least by now in his career. 

 

Some feel he has done enough and for now are satisfied with it due to he's such a young MLB and still has much to learn. I get that too.

 

With all that said, where I stand with it is I'm not ready to write him off just yet. Obviously he had a rough go last season but also acknowledge he was injured for a lot of last season too, which I feel even the ppl that's pretty much done with him can agree that injury played at least a sizable part in that. 

 

So in conclusion, for me I want to see a hopefully healthy season this time and also hope he has learned more. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[34-78-83]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Ohhhhhhh.......ok......... let me know how your film review of these vastly different defenses goes. 😉

 

There hasn't been less variance between defense's in the NFL in decades.

While I understand the X’s and O’s Of the game at a pretty high level for a fan, I defer to the analysis of the experts such as the ones I mentioned. Does R Smith play mostly in Nickel in a cover 2,3,4 scheme? I do not know but I know the Bills use a 6 man front more than most teams.

[BADOLBILZ]

34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

2nd, 3rd, 14th ranked defenses respectively since he took over at MLB

 

 

Meh, that's just yardage.

 

The 2018 and 2020 defenses allowed 374 and 375 points,  respectively.   Middling.

 

By contrast, the 2017 Preston Brown MLB'd defense allowed just 359...........and that was DESPITE averaging an astonishing 45 points allowed per game in the worst 3 game defensive stretch in Bills team history.

 

I guess we just couldn't quantify Preston's impact either.

 

The 2019 team had the easiest schedule the team has had since the league went to 16 games...........that created their low yardage + low points aberration.

 

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

Yes, comparing Edmunds to Preston Brown is the very pinnacle of objectivity.

[ColoradoBills]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The 2018 and 2020 defenses allowed 374 and 375 points,  respectively.   Middling.

 

The 2018 O wasn't helping.

Bills gave up 78 points in the first 2 games with Peterman playing.  Remember 5 picks in one half?

Stats have a lot of different roots.

[Saxum]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In fairness on Doyle I am not writing him off. I accept that there are "excuses" but my view is that he has played at an UDFA level this pre-season and if they hold onto him it is because they invested a 5th and are determined to give it time. Maybe you can put him on your initial 53 (because frankly I'd rather gamble on Doyle than Bobby Hart, he is more likely to improve) but if they do they better at least find a vet tackle for the practice squad because we are one injury (or Spencer Brown not getting back for week 1) away from Tommy Doyle being your main swing tackle in an NFL game and that is scary. 

 

Ford would be swing tackle before Doyle if he is still on roster.  Either he would shift from Guard or is one of the main OL backups.

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

While I understand the X’s and O’s Of the game at a pretty high level for a fan, I defer to the analysis of the experts such as the ones I mentioned. Does R Smith play mostly in Nickel in a cover 2,3,4 scheme? I do not know but I know the Bills use a 6 man front more than most teams.

 

Let us know.  Start at google.com.  2020 Bears + "base defense" is a good start. 

 

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes, comparing Edmunds to Preston Brown is the very pinnacle of objectivity.

 

 

He did lead the NFL in tackles that season.

 

Extraordinary!

[Coach Tuesday]

To my untrained eye I just find him inconsistent.  This is not an overly complex defense and he’s been in it for a few years yet there are still Sundays where he’s just lost. He and the coaches often admit as much after those games.  And then other weeks he makes an impact.  I just don’t know what to make of the guy.  An instinctive player  with his measurable shouldn’t have weeks where he just disappears - but he does, so he must not be instinctive.  I don’t know about waiting and investing years into him finally becoming The One.  I tried that with my ex wife and in general, I think people are who they are and waiting for change is a fool’s errand.  But McBeane have invested so much in the guy, heck, they haven’t drafted or signed anyone who might even begin to challenge his roster spot, I just feel like we’re going to be in this for the long haul with Tremaine.  And just wait until they’re actually paying him top dollar, the outrage is really gonna spike when he disappears for weeks at a time.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[34-78-83]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Let us know.  Start at google.com.  2020 Bears + "base defense" is a good start. 

 

 

You are the smart a$$ of smart a$$es on this board ( you already know this lol) however …touché it looks like the bears switched to a 4-2-5 last season, so congrats on R Smith to T Edmunds being an apples to apples comparison. Point taken. Still, you’re going back and forth with somebody who agrees with you that Edmunds needs to make more impact plays. Look back to why I said your point was valid in the first place. And why so many other gripes about Edmunds are invalid.

[TheBeaneBandit]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s just incredibly inconsistent at making an impact…. He’s more so just an athletic gigantic MLB who is easily manipulated, often slow to react and lacks instincts to be really good and consistent at the position…. Until he gets there(or until he’s replaced with someone who can get there) McDs defense will continue to struggle against the better QBs and offenses of the league, IMO. 

So true. A perfect example will be this first game where the Bills should be able to fairly easily pull away but an early in the season fresh Rapelesburger will be able to manipulate Edmunds and the game will come down to the wire.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s just incredibly inconsistent at making an impact…. He’s more so just an athletic gigantic MLB who is easily manipulated, often slow to react and lacks instincts to be really good and consistent at the position…. Until he gets there(or until he’s replaced with someone who can get there) McDs defense will continue to struggle against the better QBs and offenses of the league, IMO. …. Doesn’t mean they can’t win a SB. Josh Allen is that ***** good where he can carry the team to victory like he did most of last year.

Not for nothing but all defenses struggle against the better QBs and offenses of the league. 

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

You are the smart a$$ of smart a$$es on this board ( you already know this lol) however …touché it looks like the bears switched to a 4-2-5 last season, so congrats on R Smith to T Edmunds being an apples to apples comparison. Point taken. Still, you’re going back and forth with somebody who agrees with you that Edmunds needs to make more impact plays. Look back to why I said your point was valid in the first place. And why so many other gripes about Edmunds are invalid.

 

 

My point is that it's not the system that prevents Edmunds from making plays.

 

He isn't an instinctive player so he doesn't get himself in position to make as many as he should.................but he gets balls thrown to him, tipped to him,  fumbled at his feet.........he just doesn't make the plays when they present themselves.     I went to the first open practice and watched him drop a gift wrapped interception in the 11-on-11's.   It's his MO.    

 

The MLB has a lot of opportunity to make plays in this system.    He was hurt early last year........but also 3 years in the book was out on him in coverage and teams attacked him scorching him for 4 TD's.   He can be manipulated and if you throw at him the worst that's likely to happen is the ball ends up on the ground.   If you don't make plays teams will challenge you.