Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 3

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Gunner -   

 

A couple of reactions.  First, Tommy Doyle.   I wouldn't be so quick to give up him.  Except for the guys taken in the first 30-40 spots in the draft, rookie linemen don't start.  They come into the league woefully underprepared for what the NFL demands of them, and they need two or three years to develop.   I think they took Doyle for his body without any serious expectation that he'd be NFL ready after a year, let alone after training camp.   So, he may be struggling, but I'd guess the Bills will try hard to hold onto him.

 

 

In fairness on Doyle I am not writing him off. I accept that there are "excuses" but my view is that he has played at an UDFA level this pre-season and if they hold onto him it is because they invested a 5th and are determined to give it time. Maybe you can put him on your initial 53 (because frankly I'd rather gamble on Doyle than Bobby Hart, he is more likely to improve) but if they do they better at least find a vet tackle for the practice squad because we are one injury (or Spencer Brown not getting back for week 1) away from Tommy Doyle being your main swing tackle in an NFL game and that is scary. 

[Patrick Duffy]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he looked off balance generally. To me Boettger just looks more balanced in pass pro and his footwork is more consistent if a little scruffy at times. Ford definitely gets his feet too wide apart and then ends up lunging because he can't shuffle. If the Bills were a run first offense I'd put Cody Ford in to start, but the type of offense we are Boettger (who as I say gave up the hit on Allen on the TD throw to Moss so wasn't faultless himself) would be my guy.

Gotcha....I must say though regarding Ford that imo he has been a little disappointing anyway considering where he was drafted. Have just been hoping to see some improvement after some point. At least by now, or before now for that matter.

 

Anyways, will see how it goes.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Play you’re referring to is at the 3:35 mark. Edmunds fits in Agap for his run responsibilities and stays with RB leaking flat. That’s been his job and his cues for run/run fakes. Guy who ends up w the ball is lined up as a TE and it’s actually Milano who lets him go by biting on playaction. 
 

*you can run the video on YouTube at .25x speed to slow it down 

 

Yea definitely Milano's guy he runs right past him. Hard to know exactly what the Bills called and in that situation even with Milano attacking the line after misdiagnosing the play the middle of the field shouldn't be that wide open. Will wait for the all22 angle but my first instinct is Hyde should have come up to fill the intermediate zone. It does remain a concern though teams attacking the natural aggression of the Bills linebackers with play action. There are a lot of those Shanahan style stretch zone teams knocking about now with all the play action boot stuff and we have to improve against it.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea definitely Milano's guy he runs right past him. Hard to know exactly what the Bills called and in that situation even with Milano attacking the line after misdiagnosing the play the middle of the field shouldn't be that wide open. Will wait for the all22 angle but my first instinct is Hyde should have come up to fill the intermediate zone. It does remain a concern though teams attacking the natural aggression of the Bills linebackers with play action. There are a lot of those Shanahan style stretch zone teams knocking about now with all the play action boot stuff and we have to improve against it.

I think there was confusion on who has the TE and who is responsible for the edge there, but regardless it’s just an inaccurate depiction of what occurred there re: Edmunds’ responsibilities, which has become a trope at this point.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think there was confusion on who has the TE and who is responsible for the edge there, but regardless it’s just an inaccurate depiction of what occurred there re: Edmunds’ responsibilities, which has become a trope at this point.

 

Yea that play was not on Edmunds. I think a combo of Milano and Hyde. Looked like they weren't playing the same call to me but would like to see from behind the play on the all22. 

[HappyDays]

49 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Play you’re referring to is at the 3:35 mark. Edmunds fits in Agap for his run responsibilities and stays with RB leaking flat. That’s been his job and his cues for run/run fakes. Guy who ends up w the ball is lined up as a TE and it’s actually Milano who lets him go by biting on playaction. 
 

*you can run the video on YouTube at .25x speed to slow it down 

 

Like I said I didn't know if it was his responsibility, I just thought it was a  bad look to get knocked to the ground. Your breakdown of the play seems correct. It just feels like in general there's a lot of negative plays where Edmunds' role in the breakdown has to be excused, and very few positive plays. Personally I want my starting MLB to make a bigger impact on the game than Edmunds does. It's nice that he takes away passing lanes but defenses exploited his weaknesses last year and I worry it will happen again this year.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Like I said I didn't know if it was his responsibility, I just thought it was a  bad look to get knocked to the ground. Your breakdown of the play seems correct. It just feels like in general there's a lot of negative plays where Edmunds' role in the breakdown has to be excused, and very few positive plays. Personally I want my starting MLB to make a bigger impact on the game than Edmunds does. It's nice that he takes away passing lanes but defenses exploited his weaknesses last year and I worry it will happen again this year.

It’s not an excuse. Edmunds has a lot of responsibilities that people either seem to not understand or just ignore to make their case for why he isn’t performing. Imo to say he doesn’t impact games is pretty wild…he has a hand in almost every aspect of the defense.

[Rocky Landing]

Good Night for the No Huddle Offense

 

Ever since Dick Jauron's horrible "No O-line/No Huddle" offensive scheme, I've been skeptical of the ho-huddle offense. It seemed to me that it would often put the offense in as much of a disadvantage as the opposing D. It also seemed to require a fairly simple menu of plays that could be audibled at the LOS. This buffalo offense, however, is a different story. There is so much continuity, and familiarity on this starting offense, such a strong relationship between Daboll, and Allen, and so much trust, and leadership in Allen, that I suspect they can run a far more complex scheme from the no-huddle than the majority of other teams in the NFL. In fact, Allen's ability to audible seemed to have inspired the Packers to call a TO, at one point.

 

OK, here's my homerism for the day: If they decide to run it with any frequency, this team may have the best no-huddle offense since the K-gun under Marv Levy.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Good Night for the No Huddle Offense

 

Ever since Dick Jauron's horrible "No O-line/No Huddle" offensive scheme, I've been skeptical of the ho-huddle offense. It seemed to me that it would often put the offense in as much of a disadvantage as the opposing D. It also seemed to require a fairly simple menu of plays that could be audibled at the LOS. This buffalo offense, however, is a different story. There is so much continuity, and familiarity on this starting offense, such a strong relationship between Daboll, and Allen, and so much trust, and leadership in Allen, that I suspect they can run a far more complex scheme from the no-huddle than the majority of other teams in the NFL. In fact, Allen's ability to audible seemed to have inspired the Packers to call a TO, at one point.

 

OK, here's my homerism for the day: If they decide to run it with any frequency, this team may have the best no-huddle offense since the K-gun under Marv Levy.

 

The no-huddle limits the call sheet on both sides and makes it much more about your 11 and their 11. You need better talent to run it. Jauron running it with Trent or Marrone and Hackett trying to run it with EJ was just moronic. If you have Josh Allen and one of the best 4 deep receiving corps in the NFL and two solid tackles then of course you can run the no huddle and be successful. 

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

5 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

yeah, a clear swing and miss. 
 

That said, for every miss, Beane seems to get many more hits. For example, I was randomly reading a draft recap of the 2018 draft. Beane was accused of overreaching on Dawkins (who projected to maybe being able to compete with Jordan Mills at RT), and reaching on Milano (who was viewed as maybe ST contributor).  
 

Reading stuff like that makes me feel better about some of the misses!

 

 

Beane did not draft Dawkins. White, Dawkins and Milano were drafted by Coach McDermott. Pretty good draft IMO.

Beane was hired 10 days after the 2017 draft.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

 

Beane did not draft Dawkins. White, Dawkins and Milano were drafted by Coach McDermott. Pretty good draft IMO.

Beane was hired 10 days after the 2017 draft.

Oh whoops— my bad. Then props to Dougie boy!! 
 

by the way, why are you disliking all my posts, bro? Go pick on someone else!  🥴

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

It’s not an excuse. Edmunds has a lot of responsibilities that people either seem to not understand or just ignore to make their case for why he isn’t performing. Imo to say he doesn’t impact games is pretty wild…he has a hand in almost every aspect of the defense.

 

Excuses are what you are making.

 

Here's how it works:

 

- Highly invested-in young player performs below expectations

- Homer fans rush to make excuses

- Said player continues to underachieve and it soon becomes indisputable

- fanbase begins to over-react and assign the failure of every failed play near him to said player

- Homer fans try to spin the over-reactions as proof that player isn't underperforming

 

Bottom line..........Edmunds hasn't made game changing plays...........and the excuses why he doesn't are wearing thin.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Excuses are what you are making.

 

Here's how it works:

 

- Highly invested-in young player performs below expectations

- Homer fans rush to make excuses

- Said player continues to underachieve and it soon becomes indisputable

- fanbase begins to over-react and assign the failure of every failed play near him to said player

- Homer fans try to spin the over-reactions as proof that player isn't underperforming

 

Bottom line..........Edmunds hasn't made game changing plays...........and the excuses why he doesn't are wearing thin.

Here's something no one can argue with, but of course you will.

 

Beane and McDermott have high expectations of their players, and when a player isn't performing, they go out and get serious competition at that position.   They try other options.  They do not leave on the field players who are not getting the job done.  We've seen it over and over.  

 

So, why is it that Beane has not drafted one young middle linebacker?  Why hasn't he signed one veteran free agent middle linebacker?   Why is it that McDermott unfailingly puts Edmunds back out there?

 

There is only one answer:  Edmunds is doing what the Bills want him to do.   It may not be what you want him to do, but you don't get a vote.  

 

Edmunds is getting his job done.   If he weren't, he'd have competition by now. 

[34-78-83]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Excuses are what you are making.

 

Here's how it works:

 

- Highly invested-in young player performs below expectations

- Homer fans rush to make excuses

- Said player continues to underachieve and it soon becomes indisputable

- fanbase begins to over-react and assign the failure of every failed play near him to said player

- Homer fans try to spin the over-reactions as proof that player isn't underperforming

 

Bottom line..........Edmunds hasn't made game changing plays...........and the excuses why he doesn't are wearing thin.

The key to your point’s validity ( my opinion) is that Edmunds hasn’t made a lot of game changing plays. That’s certainly accurate. Judging him as a 1990’s 4-3 MLB ( which is what most of his critics do) would be inaccurate. He is a Nickel backer ( our formation 90% of the time) whose importance to McD’s scheme is mostly related to his length and ability to alter passing lanes or to run and tackle the short routes. I don’t really see the op as making excuses as much as trying to point that out. Edmunds certainly needs to make more impact plays this season.

[Rico]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Excuses are what you are making.

 

Here's how it works:

 

- Highly invested-in young player performs below expectations

- Homer fans rush to make excuses

- Said player continues to underachieve and it soon becomes indisputable

- fanbase begins to over-react and assign the failure of every failed play near him to said player

- Homer fans try to spin the over-reactions as proof that player isn't underperforming

 

Bottom line..........Edmunds hasn't made game changing plays...........and the excuses why he doesn't are wearing thin.

Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself.

 

 

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Excuses are what you are making.

 

Here's how it works:

 

- Highly invested-in young player performs below expectations

- Homer fans rush to make excuses

- Said player continues to underachieve and it soon becomes indisputable

- fanbase begins to over-react and assign the failure of every failed play near him to said player

- Homer fans try to spin the over-reactions as proof that player isn't underperforming

 

Bottom line..........Edmunds hasn't made game changing plays...........and the excuses why he doesn't are wearing thin.

Do you think it’s productive to label people with a different opinion on a player ‘homer fans’?

[34-78-83]

25 minutes ago, Rico said:

Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself.

 

 

While funny, You cannot possibly be comparing Edmunds and Mike Williams. One is considered an upper 3rd lb by his peers and other coaches while the other never had an ounce of success in the pros.

Edited August 29, 2021 by 34-78-83

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

While funny, You cannot possibly be comparing Edmunds and Mike Williams. One is considered an upper 3rd lb by his peers and other coaches while the other never had an ounce is success in the pros.

No, actually I like Edmunds, but the same stages that Badol listed went down with Puddinhead.. maybe not as many posters, but they were very vocal.

- Highly invested-in young player performs below expectations

- Homer fans rush to make excuses

- Said player continues to underachieve and it soon becomes indisputable

- fanbase begins to over-react and assign the failure of every failed play near him to said player

- Homer fans try to spin the over-reactions as proof that player isn't underperforming

Edited August 29, 2021 by Rico

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

 

So, why is it that Beane has not drafted one young middle linebacker? 

 

Why hasn't he signed one veteran free agent middle linebacker?   

 

Why is it that McDermott unfailingly puts Edmunds back out there?

 

There is only one answer:  Edmunds is doing what the Bills want him to do.   It may not be what you want him to do, but you don't get a vote.  

 

Edmunds is getting his job done.   If he weren't, he'd have competition by now. 

 

 

 

1) They only play 2 LB's 90% of the snaps........they have plenty of them and an excess of depth.

 

2) Ridiculously wrong.   They signed Klein to a rather lucrative contract.   He was Kuechly's understudy in Carolina prior to going to New Orleans.  They also signed Tyrel Adams this offseason coming off a 120 tackle season as a starter(and cut him early because they are flush with reserve MLB's).   Andre Smith got a $2M+ per year deal and Tyler Matakevich's deal averaged $4M before it was adjusted.   Ain't nobody working for the minimum in that LB corps.

 

3) Because they are committed to turning his All-Pro physical traits into a commensurate MLB even it it takes a 4th or 5th season.  

 

If there is only one answer,  then I guess the reason that Levi Wallace didn't get any veteran or high draft pick competition is because they think he's like having another first rounder out there?

 

The whole "he gets the job done" mantra belongs with players like Eli..........not players you invest first round picks and potentially a $20M/yr contract too.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

37 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Do you think it’s productive to label people with a different opinion on a player ‘homer fans’?

 

 

Anyone who can't acknowledge that his lack of game changing plays is conspicuous is NOT being the least bit objective.

 

46 minutes ago, Rico said:

Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself.

 

 

 

 

I miss the weekly updates from the TSW homers on how much better off the Bills were for selecting Big Mike instead of the near universally favored Bryant McKinnie. 😆