St. Louis Rams Relocation Legal Article - Could Impact the Bills

[PrimeTime101]

this again? Seriously @Chandler#81 again... I DID NOT DO IT Don't blame this on me!

 

But seriously for the love of god... Bills are not moving... Lets stay realistic here huh guys? This guy was looking for some clicks and brownie points when he made this article and this soiled topic is giving it to them! We have the most loyal Football fans in the USA! 

 

I mean seriously people complain about how our taxes will go up for a new stadium... Do you guys realize how little that $ amount is over time? This whole thing in my opinion has gotten silly. I can't wait till the stadium is approved and we move on from writers saying stuff to get extra ticks. 

 

Besides when we win the SB this year? no one is going to care how much we pay for anything.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, DJB said:

I thought we were moving to somewhere in Texas? 

 

Now its St. Louis? I can't keep up with this 

 

No, they're not suggesting the Bills would or should move to St Louis.

 

The point of the article was that St Louis "fleecing" by the Rams/Kroenke/NFL may have lessons for Buffalo with regard to the Bills.

 

I summarize the article's point as:

"Give less weight to positive words from Goodell, and more weight to what the NFL's lawyers argued in Oakland and are arguing in St Louis.  In particular, Do Not give much weight to the NFL's Relocation Guidelines, because the NFL's lawyers are arguing in court that those guidelines are not a contract and have no legally enforceable standing."

 

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Because Terry would either have to give up or move the Sabres as well. Infact it would cost him more money to relocate both than just staying put and building the new stadium in OP. Erie county officials and politicians are going to work with Pegula and met him Monday and it was reported they made progress during the meeting on building the new stadium. Plus most of these politicians and officials like a Buffalo native in Hochoul will be up for re election. Billion dollars says the will make sure the Bills stay in Buffalo in order to be re elected in their current positions. This is politics 101 right here. 

 

94% of NYS voters do not live in Erie County--and I would imagine 90% of those don't care about the fate of the Bills.  In fact, only 6 counties above Westchester voted Democrat in 2018.

 

Sure, publicly, Hochul will say the right things about "keeping the Bills in Buffalo",  but she knows who will be electing her.  

 

I feel comfortable concluding that if Cuomo were still Gov, he would never fight very hard for another billion for Buffalo (for a billionaire, no less) after that last billion he brought there went into a corrupt rat hole run by his cronies.  Every downstate legislator from either party would bring this up to beat him with it over and over.   Public billions for Buffalo is now a 3rd rail....

 

Doesn't matter anyway, legislators hold the purse strings.  Governors can only ask...

[White Linen]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

I respect your optimism, but I'd put it at least at 10%.

Regardless of what the Pegulas want or say they want, this is 2021, and the NFL is all about maximizing revenue. Above all else, it's a business. Loyal, diehard fan bases (and media markets larger than Buffalo) like Cleveland and Oakland have lost teams in the past 25 years. Buffalo isn't special or unique.

I think the team will end up sticking around, too, but to say "0% chance they move", in my mind, is overly optimistic and not realistic.

 

How do you know it's only 10%?  90% is really really optimistic. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

38 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

94% of NYS voters do not live in Erie County--and I would imagine 90% of those don't care about the fate of the Bills.  In fact, only 6 counties above Westchester voted Democrat in 2018.

 

Sure, publicly, Hochul will say the right things about "keeping the Bills in Buffalo",  but she knows who will be electing her.  

 

I feel comfortable concluding that if Cuomo were still Gov, he would never fight very hard for another billion for Buffalo (for a billionaire, no less) after that last billion he brought there went into a corrupt rat hole run by his cronies.  Every downstate legislator from either party would bring this up to beat him with it over and over.   Public billions for Buffalo is now a 3rd rail....

 

Doesn't matter anyway, legislators hold the purse strings.  Governors can only ask...

A deal will get done, again if Hochoul wants to be re elected she’ll play ball. And a lot of people in NYS are Bills fans and are political. The team is not going anywhere. And it’s not just Hochoul most of the Erie county politicians won’t let the Bills relocating happen on their watch.

[Doc]

Sure the team could move.  But in the end, it won't. 

[DJB]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, they're not suggesting the Bills would or should move to St Louis.

 

The point of the article was that St Louis "fleecing" by the Rams/Kroenke/NFL may have lessons for Buffalo with regard to the Bills.

 

I summarize the article's point as:

"Give less weight to positive words from Goodell, and more weight to what the NFL's lawyers argued in Oakland and are arguing in St Louis.  In particular, Do Not give much weight to the NFL's Relocation Guidelines, because the NFL's lawyers are arguing in court that those guidelines are not a contract and have no legally enforceable standing."

 

 

Yes I'm aware but thank you.

 

Typically I'm joking on about 98% of my posts. 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Probably not a popular take, but considering the way the government routinely flushed our tax dollars down the toilet, like the obscene waste of materials, supplies and military vehicles/equipment left behind in unspecified foreign country that was occupied for the past 20 years…

 

Those are our tax dollars being left behind and looted. Why not atleast get something we can all enjoy and keeps our team here, and bring some joy to our lives. So Pegula benefits, do I really care? I’ll never meet or know the guy, I don’t care about his personal wealth, I just want my team here.

 

If I honestly had faith in politicians (on both sides of the aisle) to do something more meaningful with my tax dollars I might be more hesitant, but they’ll probably waste it on something stupid like the Fast Ferry anyway.  

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Probably not a popular take, but considering the way the government routinely flushed our tax dollars down the toilet, like the obscene waste of materials, supplies and military vehicles/equipment left behind in unspecified foreign country that was occupied for the past 20 years…

 

Those are our tax dollars being left behind and looted. Why not atleast get something we can all enjoy and keeps our team here, and bring some joy to our lives. So Pegula benefits, do I really care? I’ll never meet or know the guy, I don’t care about his personal wealth, I just want my team here.

 

If I honestly had faith in politicians (on both sides of the aisle) to do something more meaningful with my tax dollars I might be more hesitant, but they’ll probably waste it on something stupid like the Fast Ferry anyway.  

 

Probably?

[billsfan_34]

12 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Interesting. I ran across this opinion piece last night and thought about starting a thread, but it seems appropriate here. He talks about stadium financing around the 4:00 mark:

 

 

Thanks for the content 😊

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, they're not suggesting the Bills would or should move to St Louis.

 

The point of the article was that St Louis "fleecing" by the Rams/Kroenke/NFL may have lessons for Buffalo with regard to the Bills.

 

I summarize the article's point as:

"Give less weight to positive words from Goodell, and more weight to what the NFL's lawyers argued in Oakland and are arguing in St Louis.  In particular, Do Not give much weight to the NFL's Relocation Guidelines, because the NFL's lawyers are arguing in court that those guidelines are not a contract and have no legally enforceable standing."

 

This was my take, and just thought this would be an interesting read. I know X’s and 0’s of the game but this stuff is outside me wheelhouse. It seems I may have been on the right scent.

Edited August 28, 2021 by billsfan_34

[dollars 2 donuts]

11 hours ago, DJB said:

I thought we were moving to somewhere in Texas? 

 

Now its St. Louis? I can't keep up with this 

 

The laughing makes the tears sting less and thankfully the booze makes everything wash away and leaves me fresh as a daisy.

 

A gutter sleeping daisy awash in my own sick, but a daisy nonetheless.

[cba fan]

11 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That dude knew what he is talking about. The NFL loves the Bills in Buffalo. Virtually no chance they are moving. The NFL wasn’t going to allow it last time either. 

Goodell and J Jones both wanted Bills to consider Toronto, and loved JB Jovi, before surprisingly Pegula swept in and bought the team. Jones was muttering babbling dumbfounded on interview when he found out.

 

No one including Bills trust commissioned to sell the team were doing anything but selling to highest bidder.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by cba fan

[Kelly the Dog]

7 minutes ago, cba fan said:

Goodell and J Jones both wanted Bills to consider Toronto, and loved JB Jovi, before surprisingly Pegula swept in and bought the team. Jones was muttering babbling dumbfounded on interview when he found out.

 

No one including Bills trust commissioned to sell the team were doing anything but selling to highest bidder.

 

 

Nonsense. Pegula was always going to win. It never was in doubt. They may have wanted to boost up the asking price but there was zero chance the Bills were leaving. It was an inside job (partly because Terry had so much money). He actually paid $300-400m more than he had to to get the team which ingratiated him to fellow owners whose owns teams overnight were worth 2-400m more. No chance at all Bills were moving. 

[Utah John]

What went wrong for St Louis was it didn't comply with the requirements to stay in a long-term lease.  The real lesson from the article is that the city and county (and state?) need a guarantee that the Bills will sign a lease for at least 10 years if the new stadium is built.  When the Rams' lease in St Louis went to year by year, the path to LA got lit up in bright lights. 

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, Cynical said:

 

What makes you think he would not move the Sabres as well?

The Bills and Sabres are no longer a package deal for a city wanting an NFL franchise and/or NHL franchise.

He could easily send the Bills and Sabres in 2 different directions to maximize his returns.

 

I am not saying Terry will, or wants to, move the teams, but I agree with Logic.

Until a contract is signed, do not assume the Bills are a 100% lock to stay in Buffalo.

Circumstances change between now and 2023 when the current contract expires.

 

Anything could happen in theory. But Terry Pegula is not moving the Sabres. Of that I am fairly certain of.

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

94% of NYS voters do not live in Erie County--and I would imagine 90% of those don't care about the fate of the Bills.  In fact, only 6 counties above Westchester voted Democrat in 2018.

 

Sure, publicly, Hochul will say the right things about "keeping the Bills in Buffalo",  but she knows who will be electing her.  

 

I feel comfortable concluding that if Cuomo were still Gov, he would never fight very hard for another billion for Buffalo (for a billionaire, no less) after that last billion he brought there went into a corrupt rat hole run by his cronies.  Every downstate legislator from either party would bring this up to beat him with it over and over.   Public billions for Buffalo is now a 3rd rail....

 

Doesn't matter anyway, legislators hold the purse strings.  Governors can only ask...

That’s not the right way to think about politics. First off, the Bills fan base stretches east and south to many other counties and localities, not least Rochester. Secondly, losing 6 points in an otherwise 55-45 election means you lose the election. Or more to the point, losing the assembly or state senate majority because a half dozen seats flip in Western NY and the Southern Tier means you lose your ability to pursue an agenda. The fact that only 6 percent of the population lives in Erie County is totally immaterial.

Edited August 28, 2021 by dave mcbride

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Anything could happen in theory. But Terry Pegula is not moving the Sabres. Of that I am fairly certain of.

That’s not the right way to think about politics. First off, the Bills fan base stretches east and south to many other counties and localities, not least Rochester. Secondly, losing 6 points in an otherwise 55-45 election means you lose the election. Or more to the point, losing the assembly or state senate majority because a half dozen seats flip in Western NY and the Southern Tier means you lose your ability to pursue an agenda. The fact that only 6 percent of the population lives in Erie County is totally immaterial.

 

Fans won't be voting on the NYS budget.  

 

The vast majority of NY counties will not be electing the next Governor of NY--they haven't for a long time.  Even if they could, past Monroe county it's hard to imagine many of them would favor money for Pegula in Buffalo.

 

The ones that will are Westchester, Rockland, Bronx, Manhattan, Kings, Queens, (maybe Richmond), Nassau and Suffolk.  While there may be some Bills fans scattered around there, that hardly matters because it numbers very few residents in those counties.  We can assume the rest don't care about the Bills or the Pegulas.  Those counties are represented by state legislators who know their constituents could care less about the Bills, so they aren't going to campaign on or for a new stadium for a billionaire---and neither is the current governor, for obvious reasons.  How will she convince downstate legislators to put another billion for Buffalo (for a single  privately held company no less) into their next NYS budget?  

 

All politics is local....

 

 

[BuffaloBills1998]

35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Fans won't be voting on the NYS budget.  

 

The vast majority of NY counties will not be electing the next Governor of NY--they haven't for a long time.  Even if they could, past Monroe county it's hard to imagine many of them would favor money for Pegula in Buffalo.

 

The ones that will are Westchester, Rockland, Bronx, Manhattan, Kings, Queens, (maybe Richmond), Nassau and Suffolk.  While there may be some Bills fans scattered around there, that hardly matters because it numbers very few residents in those counties.  We can assume the rest don't care about the Bills or the Pegulas.  Those counties are represented by state legislators who know their constituents could care less about the Bills, so they aren't going to campaign on or for a new stadium for a billionaire---and neither is the current governor, for obvious reasons.  How will she convince downstate legislators to put another billion for Buffalo (for a single  privately held company no less) into their next NYS budget?  

 

All politics is local....

 

 

If we’re talking about Hochoul, then she’ll convince the legislators  Because she will be up for re election and she wants that job long term and not short term. Plus she’s from the Buffalo area and is a Bills fan. If she were to let the Bills leave on her watch her career would be in trouble and she wouldn’t be able to show her face in her hometown. She has a lot to lose than to gain. Plus all the erie state officials won’t let a relocation happen on their watch. They’re going to get a deal done

Edited August 28, 2021 by BuffaloBills1998

[BuffaloBills1998]

38 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Fans won't be voting on the NYS budget.  

 

The vast majority of NY counties will not be electing the next Governor of NY--they haven't for a long time.  Even if they could, past Monroe county it's hard to imagine many of them would favor money for Pegula in Buffalo.

 

The ones that will are Westchester, Rockland, Bronx, Manhattan, Kings, Queens, (maybe Richmond), Nassau and Suffolk.  While there may be some Bills fans scattered around there, that hardly matters because it numbers very few residents in those counties.  We can assume the rest don't care about the Bills or the Pegulas.  Those counties are represented by state legislators who know their constituents could care less about the Bills, so they aren't going to campaign on or for a new stadium for a billionaire---and neither is the current governor, for obvious reasons.  How will she convince downstate legislators to put another billion for Buffalo (for a single  privately held company no less) into their next NYS budget?  

 

All politics is local....

 

 

https://buffalonews.com/opinion/editorial/the-editorial-board-as-talks-start-toward-new-bills-stadium-some-public-financing-is-inevitable/article_7c7d81a2-069d-11ec-8d4e-37a0105812f2.amp.html

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2021/8/24/22639140/all-parties-met-monday-made-progress-on-new-buffalo-bills-stadium-per-report

[Patience]

21 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Probably not a popular take, but considering the way the government routinely flushed our tax dollars down the toilet, like the obscene waste of materials, supplies and military vehicles/equipment left behind in unspecified foreign country that was occupied for the past 20 years…

 

Those are our tax dollars being left behind and looted. Why not atleast get something we can all enjoy and keeps our team here, and bring some joy to our lives. So Pegula benefits, do I really care? I’ll never meet or know the guy, I don’t care about his personal wealth, I just want my team here.

 

If I honestly had faith in politicians (on both sides of the aisle) to do something more meaningful with my tax dollars I might be more hesitant, but they’ll probably waste it on something stupid like the Fast Ferry anyway.  

 

Really, really good post.  Personally, I'm quite fine with my tax dollars going towards the construction of a new stadium.  Plenty of my tax dollars go towards things that personally I have no future interest in (schools, for one), and never will, yet I help to pay for those things.  

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Fans won't be voting on the NYS budget.  

 

The vast majority of NY counties will not be electing the next Governor of NY--they haven't for a long time.  Even if they could, past Monroe county it's hard to imagine many of them would favor money for Pegula in Buffalo.

 

The ones that will are Westchester, Rockland, Bronx, Manhattan, Kings, Queens, (maybe Richmond), Nassau and Suffolk.  While there may be some Bills fans scattered around there, that hardly matters because it numbers very few residents in those counties.  We can assume the rest don't care about the Bills or the Pegulas.  Those counties are represented by state legislators who know their constituents could care less about the Bills, so they aren't going to campaign on or for a new stadium for a billionaire---and neither is the current governor, for obvious reasons.  How will she convince downstate legislators to put another billion for Buffalo (for a single  privately held company no less) into their next NYS budget?  

 

All politics is local....

 

 

Yep and WNY will get its stadium like the city got there baseball stadiums.  Might take some inside pool trade-off’s between politicos, but I’m not concerned.  Everyone knew a new stadium was on the horizon when the Pegula’s bought the team.  This isn’t out of left field.  Folks need to calm down and stop constantly worrying.  It’s a drag.