Wow...NFL attempting to make vaccines mandatory for NFL players now...NFLPA not with it

[foreboding]

47 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

What constitutes way behind? At what point are they just behind?

I think 85% is terrible and we aren't there. Who wants 7 or 8 players walking around without protecting them and others. 1 is too many.

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

What makes you think that?

 

Why wouldn't I think that? You think a policy was passed between the NFL and the NFLPA without consent from the players? So the NFLPA signed off on a policy without consulting its own clients? 

[ndirish1978]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What I bolded is probably correct.

 

The part about "based entirely on perception" is probably incorrect as is the "NFL only wants cover from blame" bit.

I think there's reasonable evidence to believe the NFL's policies were based on the science available at the time they were drawing them up last Spring, but have been slow to adjust to the changing reality on the ground this Summer.  I put up some refs and calculations over in the facts thread if you want to understand what I mean.

 

 

I agree that there are medical people in place trying their best to do things based on the evidence at hand. I do not believe these people are alone in setting league policies though. I believe they make their set of recommendations and the league makes their policies taking the experts reports into account along with their own set of executives. The desired outcome was a 100% vaccinated league, they set out to do that with a carrot/stick approach. Carrot - no mask, fewer tests, can visit family and friends; Stick - Mask, daily tests, no family visits AND no endorsements? I agree that the word entirely was a poor choice, should have been significantly influenced by perception.

[mannc]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Why wouldn't I think that? You think a policy was passed between the NFL and the NFLPA without consent from the players? So the NFLPA signed off on a policy without consulting its own clients? 

I don't doubt that they "consulted" with the players, whatever that means, but neither of us knows what actually went into the NFLPA agreeing to the protocols.  It may have been based on the union's perception that it was the lesser of several evils.  I'm pretty sure the membership did not vote on it. I can't prove it, but I bet if you asked the Bills players (both vaxed and unvaxed), they probably would tell you it was a mistake to sign off on the protocols.

[Wayne Cubed]

Just now, mannc said:

I don't doubt that they "consulted" with the players, whatever that means, but neither of us knows what actually went into the NFLPA agreeing to the protocols.  It may have been based on the union's perception that it was the lesser of several evils.  I'm pretty sure the membership did not vote on it. I can't prove it, but I bet if you asked the Bills players (both vaxed and unvaxed), they probably would tell you it was a mistake to sign off on the protocols.

 

There's just no bases to believe that. There have been a few players vocally against it. Beasely being one. He does not represent the majority of players opinions. If there was a majority of opinions about this policy, more players would just come out and say it. But they aren't. And why would they be against it? For unvaxxed, its the same exact policy they had the previous season. For vaxxed it's less restrictions. This was all based on current data available. Which made sense at the time. You could argue it needs updating with the Delta variant, I would agree with that but there was nothing crazy about the policy at that time. It was incentivizing getting vaccinated and players/teams saw the benefit in it.

[bigdogtim]

I had read that people are accepting because America is a free country and everyone (read Beasley) is entitled to choose.  Agreed.  However, playing in the NFL is a privilege enjoyed by an elite few (read Beasley and his buddies).  It seems to me that whenever an elite group is afforded such a privilege, the group has arguable an ethical if not moral obligation to his peers.  That seems a small price to pay for membership in this elite group. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

I agree that there are medical people in place trying their best to do things based on the evidence at hand. I do not believe these people are alone in setting league policies though. I believe they make their set of recommendations and the league makes their policies taking the experts reports into account along with their own set of executives. The desired outcome was a 100% vaccinated league, they set out to do that with a carrot/stick approach. Carrot - no mask, fewer tests, can visit family and friends; Stick - Mask, daily tests, no family visits AND no endorsements? I agree that the word entirely was a poor choice, should have been significantly influenced by perception.

 

I can go with "significantly influenced by perception", most business decisions are.

 

My point is that the policies (including the carrots and the sticks) were likely not divorced from medical/scientific "best practice" according to the NFL's medical officers and scientific consultants at the time they were drawn up.  This isn't the place to discuss but there are some studies and calculations on the Covid Facts Thread in OTW.  

 

I do think the "carrots and the sticks" approach has backfired somewhat for the NFL now.  For example, it led to a situation where a player who called the league office with questions about the basis for the protocols was given one set of information, then given the name of some NFL experts to call for further discussion and what the expert (referred by the NFL) told them differed.  (Believe me or don't, I heard this from a source I won't name but who is close to the player in question and on the same team). 

 

I understand how it happened - the NFL-provided info was the original info underlying the protocols, and the expert given info was revised based on what the expert was currently seeing in practice - but it  led to a huge loss of trust.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, bigdogtim said:

I had read that people are accepting because America is a free country and everyone (read Beasley) is entitled to choose.  Agreed.  However, playing in the NFL is a privilege enjoyed by an elite few (read Beasley and his buddies).  It seems to me that whenever an elite group is afforded such a privilege, the group has arguable an ethical if not moral obligation to his peers.  That seems a small price to pay for membership in this elite group. 

 

I agree that playing in the NFL is a privilege, but there is a valid point that the problem at this point is not any of the Bills players sent home behaving unethically or immorally towards his peers.  They weren't sent home for protocol violations, nor did any protocol violations cause problems to date.

 

The problem is under the current protocols where they are tested every 2 weeks, a vaccinated asymptomatic or presymptomatic person can be in the facility interacting, unmasked, with players and staff, and will not be detected before they have had (what are defined as) close contacts with vaccinated players who are then sent home (even though they have not behaved unethically or immorally).

 

 

[TBBills]

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-nfl-proposes-making-covid-043214385.html

They definitely should make it mandatory. Don't want to follow the companies rules you don't need to get paid.

[Kwai San]

36 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I dont have my hopes up for this season.  It could derail at anytime.  It's gonna be stupid.  Vaccine or no vaccine. 

 

I agree with this......the whole season could just go right off the rails in a very short period of time.  How do you compensate people who buy tickets to a game, reserve hotels, get travel accommodations?  That right there is a rather large investment for some fans of which would go right out the window if a team were to forfeit a game or move a game.  Last season was a different animal all together.  With no fans it was relatively easy to massage the schedule....this season that is out the window.  Can you even begin to imagine the lawsuits that would occur?  And in our litigious society you damn well know that will happen.

 

From a completely selfish fanboy point of view I really want this season to happen as I believe the Bills are inn a position to do some damage and possibly win a SB.  But from a logical thinking persons point of view....I can see both sides of the coin regarding the vax.  Full disclosure I am vaxxed.  Not that I wanted too but I was required too.  Having the vax does make me feel much safer thats for sure and i didn't have that opinion in the beginning.  I feel sorry for the folks who are suffering needlessly and some of those folks will indeed die.  I can't just callously say oh well....them the breaks.  Thats not me.

 

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and the season will play out to a level of normal.  I am not betting on it though.

 

Go BILLS!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, mannc said:

IIRC, he had had both shots and was a day or so shy of two weeks post vax when he caught it.  Doesn't seem like a great spokesperson for the vax.  

 

This is incorrect.  Dawkins stated that he was "a few days" (I recall 1.5 weeks) past the 2nd shot when he DEVELOPED SYMPTOMS.   Since the incubation period is 5 to 14 days, the chances are that Dawkins was infected either a bit before he received his second shot up to about a week afterwards.

[Kwai San]

41 minutes ago, mannc said:

And he was vaccinated...

 

Come on man....he was not fully vaxxed....yes had 2 shots but was short of the 2 weeks required to have the vax take hold.  That has been told by him several times.

[Malazan]

42 minutes ago, mannc said:

I did not say they necessarily are under fire. I posed the question.  The fact that many players are vaccinated doesn't mean they favor the protocols or even wanted the vax; many probably got vaccinated because they didn't feel like they had a viable choice, and many who are vaccinated may nonetheless believe the protocols are silly and counterproductive.  

 

"I'm just asking the question" is one of the most BS things ever.

 

7 minutes ago, TBBills said:

They definitely should make it mandatory. Don't want to follow the companies rules you don't need to get paid.

 

That's a rough viewpoint. Companies shouldn't just make rules up on their own. It's  bad situation that our political process has been so poisoned that companies are left in the position to do this, but we should work to get that process fixed and not force companies to make the decision. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by jeremy2020

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

It’s a business 

 

if said business says get a shot or take a hike 

 

They have a Choice 

to comply or not.  
 

 

I have no idea what will happen but if it ends up that way it ends up that way.

The only thing I hope is the Bills organization as a whole does the most it can to keep guys playing football every week.

The rest is what it is.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Lol, care to share why it wouldn't work? Sure some vets will retire. Who gives a damn.

 

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo619 said:

A mandate will never work. This has potential to backfire tremendously. Get your popcorn ready. Bring in the tomato plants. 
 

I was going to post something similar to Process to why would it never work...As stated above, for sure some will retire or whatnot, but not enough to be a big deal. Also some could just decide to get it to keep getting paid.

 

Anyway, I don't see how you think it would never work.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[MrSarcasm]

51 minutes ago, foreboding said:

I think 85% is terrible and we aren't there. Who wants 7 or 8 players walking around without protecting them and others. 1 is too many.

So we are talking about an 8% difference then or 7 extra players. If 1 is too many then the NFL needs to shut down until they have 100% compliance.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Process said:

That's different then saying a mandate wouldn't work. If they agree to a mandate, then the players can't do anything about it. Get the shot or retire, which I'm sure Beasley would do. And I couldn't care less. 

Well one thing that would be for sure is all cards would be shown for him. Would definitely find out if he's bluffing or not lol. With that said, I can't say I would not care because he's a solid part of this offense and he would be missed for sure, however the other WR's and depth they have would definitely soften the blow.

[transplantbillsfan]

All vaccination/political discussion aside... if the NFL and NFLPA Allowed the vaccination mandate, it doesn't seem like anyone could argue against the fact that it would lift at least one very real weight of worry we have with this team this year.  The only potential negative result I would see is Beasley following through on his threat to retire.

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    Feel like there is some CYA going on the leagues part. If games get canceled they can assign the blame elsewhere.

No canceled games. You play with who you have. Like how they made one team play with no QBs last year. Washington?

 

But I fully expect the NFL to play favorites again.

[Buffalo Boy]

26 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

No canceled games. You play with who you have. Like how they made one team play with no QBs last year. Washington?

 

But I fully expect the NFL to play favorites again.

Sounds good to me.

Still super pissed about Titans getting what amounted to a two week bye before playing us when they were the cause of the problem. Some serious BS , that!