Kumerow and the WR Glut

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

On nfl.com they list a Tre Walker (not Miller) as a WR on Bills. Don’t know anything about him. 
 

 

 

Well...he isn't listed on the Buffalobills.com roster

There isn't a recent transaction with a Tre Walker on Buffalobills.com

 

*rummage* *rummage* *rummage*

 

Looks as though he signed with the Bills as an UDFA on May 13th:

05/13

Signed undrafted free agents CB Olaijah Griffin, CB Nick McCloud, TE Quintin Morris, S Tariq Thompson, OL Syrus Tuitele and WR Tre Walker. Also signed OL Steven Gonzalez and LB Mike Bell.

 

Curiously, when I searched the Buffalobilss.com transactions page online, there was NOT an indication of him being released on the Bills site

 

But, I found this:

https://buffalowdown.com/2021/05/26/buffalo-bills-sign-wr-lance-lenoir-release-wr-tre-walker/

Evidently we *had* a UDFA rookie named Tre Walker on the roster for just under 2 weeks, and we released him to sign Lance Lenoir.

 

The Bills transaction page shows Lance Lenoir being released today, but curiously also doesn't show a transaction for when they signed him.  Perhaps the person who maintains the page was on vacation, or playing Everquest or something that day.

 

Anyway, there's your answer: he was with the Bills for a cup of coffee in mid to late May, and has been gone since.

[machine gun kelly]

Well, the good news seems to be those not practicing are most likely on the team with the exception possibly, not probably Butler.  Even though he took a pay cut, it’s not clear

to me he is an absolute lock at the 53.

 

I hope these guys are ok and leave it.  Roster cuts will be very interesting next Tuesday.  Between the battles at WR, Defensive Line, and Secondary, we almost assuredly will be surprised by 1 or 2 cuts.

[Greatdane21]

Seems like every year the Bills think they have a glut of players at a position ,the injuries start happening . So lookout QB ,LB,OL, and of course WR

 

 

[maryland-bills-fan]

One thing that I have not seen talked about is this.   If your offense uses a certain type of player or position a lot, well then you need more players at that position. The reason is that you want to have some variation in the strenths of the players,  you want to have fresh legs to come in during a game and over the season AND you want to be able to replace players who are injured or need time to recover from a minor ding.  .... ... Yes this is obvious. ... ...  Remember last year we ended the season with 3 gimpy WR and were out of the playoffs. ... .... ... We play a lot of 3 and 4 wides (early season article "

Through four games, the Buffalo Bills have used a spread formation with either three or four wide receivers on 92.5% of their snaps, according to News charts. That’s tops in the NFL.

The breakdown is 69.6% using three wides (or 11 personnel) and 22.9% using four wides (or 10 personnel)."  https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/how-often-are-bills-using-three-or-four-wide-receivers-more-than-any-other-team/article_1522e198-09ad-11eb-bf9d-cf4ebecbaaa0.html   ....Another source for the season has us using 15%  4 WR,,,,,,,,,,71% 3 WR,,,,,,,, and 9% 2 WR...,,, .... ....   https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html    86% of the time we have at least 3 wide recievers on the field. ...  Going 6 WR on the roster  just gives one backup for each position and there is a difference between a deep threat guy and a slot receiver. ......... .................   7 WR is NOT excessive for a game day or for being stocked for the long season.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

35 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

One thing that I have not seen talked about is this.   If your offense uses a certain type of player or position a lot, well then you need more players at that position. The reason is that you want to have some variation in the strenths of the players,  you want to have fresh legs to come in during a game and over the season AND you want to be able to replace players who are injured or need time to recover from a minor ding.  .... ... Yes this is obvious. ... ...  Remember last year we ended the season with 3 gimpy WR and were out of the playoffs. ... .... ... We play a lot of 3 and 4 wides (early season article "

Through four games, the Buffalo Bills have used a spread formation with either three or four wide receivers on 92.5% of their snaps, according to News charts. That’s tops in the NFL.

The breakdown is 69.6% using three wides (or 11 personnel) and 22.9% using four wides (or 10 personnel)."  https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/how-often-are-bills-using-three-or-four-wide-receivers-more-than-any-other-team/article_1522e198-09ad-11eb-bf9d-cf4ebecbaaa0.html   ....Another source for the season has us using 15%  4 WR,,,,,,,,,,71% 3 WR,,,,,,,, and 9% 2 WR...,,, .... ....   https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html    86% of the time we have at least 3 wide recievers on the field. ...  Going 6 WR on the roster  just gives one backup for each position and there is a difference between a deep threat guy and a slot receiver. ......... .................   7 WR is NOT excessive for a game day or for being stocked for the long season.

 

It's excessive for a game day 46, however i could see it argued that you want 7 on the 53 though.  Especially since the TE's aren't great.

 

The practice squad rules also allow you to carry significantly more players, as well as make them available on the "55".  

[Jobot]

22 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

He would come in a sub for whoever he backs up for a certain number of snaps a game. He’d be the primary receiver on plays where he is in the game and the play call calls for that receiver to be the primary option. 
 

I don’t think they would call different plays because he was in the game, so he’ll get his shot. Gotta remember the other players are not at the same position and they aren’t going to not let his routes be primary when he subs in ever, otherwise they would know he’s basically in as a decoy while Diggs or Davis catch a breather in their outside receiver position.

 

That said they’ll play different formations to get those guys breathers too, so probably will be more of a matchup thing when he gets in, but he will play and he won’t be hidden as a non option/last option every play. 

 

So you think it's pretty much coming down to who can add to the team this season opposed to losing your higher ceiling guy?

I guess I wouldn't go against that argument based on what I've perceived from this coaching staff.

[Behindenemylines]

14 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

One thing that I have not seen talked about is this.   If your offense uses a certain type of player or position a lot, well then you need more players at that position. The reason is that you want to have some variation in the strenths of the players,  you want to have fresh legs to come in during a game and over the season AND you want to be able to replace players who are injured or need time to recover from a minor ding.  .... ... Yes this is obvious. ... ...  Remember last year we ended the season with 3 gimpy WR and were out of the playoffs. ... .... ... We play a lot of 3 and 4 wides (early season article "

Through four games, the Buffalo Bills have used a spread formation with either three or four wide receivers on 92.5% of their snaps, according to News charts. That’s tops in the NFL.

The breakdown is 69.6% using three wides (or 11 personnel) and 22.9% using four wides (or 10 personnel)."  https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/how-often-are-bills-using-three-or-four-wide-receivers-more-than-any-other-team/article_1522e198-09ad-11eb-bf9d-cf4ebecbaaa0.html   ....Another source for the season has us using 15%  4 WR,,,,,,,,,,71% 3 WR,,,,,,,, and 9% 2 WR...,,, .... ....   https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html    86% of the time we have at least 3 wide recievers on the field. ...  Going 6 WR on the roster  just gives one backup for each position and there is a difference between a deep threat guy and a slot receiver. ......... .................   7 WR is NOT excessive for a game day or for being stocked for the long season.

Good post!  And with the addition of the extra game it changes the percentages of injury and illness significantly.  
 

I’m of the opinion since we are a passing team you’ve got to have healthy receivers. As Maryland posted we were out of the playoffs with hurt receivers. 
 

 

[DCbillsfan]

14 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

One thing that I have not seen talked about is this.   If your offense uses a certain type of player or position a lot, well then you need more players at that position. The reason is that you want to have some variation in the strenths of the players,  you want to have fresh legs to come in during a game and over the season AND you want to be able to replace players who are injured or need time to recover from a minor ding.  .... ... Yes this is obvious. ... ...  Remember last year we ended the season with 3 gimpy WR and were out of the playoffs. ... .... ... We play a lot of 3 and 4 wides (early season article "

Through four games, the Buffalo Bills have used a spread formation with either three or four wide receivers on 92.5% of their snaps, according to News charts. That’s tops in the NFL.

The breakdown is 69.6% using three wides (or 11 personnel) and 22.9% using four wides (or 10 personnel)."  https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/how-often-are-bills-using-three-or-four-wide-receivers-more-than-any-other-team/article_1522e198-09ad-11eb-bf9d-cf4ebecbaaa0.html   ....Another source for the season has us using 15%  4 WR,,,,,,,,,,71% 3 WR,,,,,,,, and 9% 2 WR...,,, .... ....   https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html    86% of the time we have at least 3 wide recievers on the field. ...  Going 6 WR on the roster  just gives one backup for each position and there is a difference between a deep threat guy and a slot receiver. ......... .................   7 WR is NOT excessive for a game day or for being stocked for the long season.

Agree 100%.  A 7th WR would most likely be inactive on game days but you have an extra WR if/when another WR gets banged up.  I believe this is why they didn't retain Andre Roberts.  They wanted a guy who had better WR skills.  Keeping Stevenson as WR7 makes sense imo.  Let him develop better as a route runner, practice with the team, and if needed dress him on Sundays.

13 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

It's excessive for a game day 46, however i could see it argued that you want 7 on the 53 though.  Especially since the TE's aren't great.

 

The practice squad rules also allow you to carry significantly more players, as well as make them available on the "55".  

A team can dress 48 players on game day as long as 8 players are OL guys.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

How did the NFLPA agree to more games without more roster spots? There should be 3 more roster spots for every extra game added. 

 

In fact wasn't that part of the initial deal? How did we get extra games but not 55-56 man rosters? 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How did the NFLPA agree to more games without more roster spots? There should be 3 more roster spots for every extra game added. 

 

In fact wasn't that part of the initial deal? How did we get extra games but not 55-56 man rosters? 

 

They do still have the expanded practice squad. 

[Metal Man]

The Bills needing extra WRs based on the offense they run makes sense and the arguments above about how banged up the WRs were in the AFC championship game are valid.

 

However I think if we end up in the AFC championship game again with a banged up Diggs, Beasley and Sanders those guys are still going to be the ones who play regardless of the depth behind them. The only way the #6 and #7 WRs on this roster would see significant snaps in a playoff game is if everyone above them is injured enough to be in street clothes.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

26 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

They do still have the expanded practice squad. 

I know they kept the PS rules from last year I believe so it helps if you sneak a player on the PS. But there should be increased roster size. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I know they kept the PS rules from last year I believe so it helps if you sneak a player on the PS. But there should be increased roster size. 

 

Maybe down the line, they expand it - it's always about money though.

[ColoradoBills]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I know they kept the PS rules from last year I believe so it helps if you sneak a player on the PS. But there should be increased roster size. 

 

They sort of did.  

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29820641/inside-new-nfl-roster-rules-2020-expanded-rosters-practice-squad-injured-reserve

Expanded rosters

New CBA rule: Starting this season, game-day active rosters, which used to be limited to 46 players per team, can include up to 48 players, provided that at least eight of those 48 are offensive linemen. (If not, the game-day roster size is limited to 47 players.)

New CBA rule: Additionally, according to the new CBA, a team can carry up to 55 players on its roster during the week -- up from 53 in past years -- by elevating one or two players from its practice squad before 4 p.m. ET on the day before that team's game. This will allow teams a larger pool from which to select their 47 or 48 game-day active players. Any player elevated from the practice squad for this purpose will immediately revert to his team's practice squad on the day after the game.

[HardyBoy]

23 hours ago, Jobot said:

 

So you think it's pretty much coming down to who can add to the team this season opposed to losing your higher ceiling guy?

I guess I wouldn't go against that argument based on what I've perceived from this coaching staff.

It’s more I think they will design plays that fit the skill set of whoever is in there and I don’t think the 6th receiver on this team will  be used as a decoy. Also, Kumero isn’t even a wide receiver in their minds potentially. He could be a special teams specialist who also plays receiver well enough to get a set of plays game planned around him. A lot easier to set up some film for a defender to get super confident on a route and set him up for a counter in a super key spot with a guy playing 6 snaps a game vs 50 a game or whatever. 
 

I don’t know that Kumero isn’t a high ceiling guy either. His route running reminds me a bit of Stevie Johnson maybe. What I mean by that is he uses positioning extremely well to get in a box out position on his defender. The suddenness with which he attacks his cuts allows him to use his arms and his hip to initiate sneaky contact and basically boxes out his defender so he is a lot more open then it looks initially and he’s fast so he is open enough to catch and fall on the break, but also can separate if the route has another window in the next level. 

 

Stevenson for sure has a bunch of upside, as does Hodgins, but I think they will figure out ways to make sure both are on the initial roster to avoid going through waivers and then figure out a way to keep them. They don’t have the luxury at receiver to make decisions for this year only. Neither Sanders, Beasley or McKenzie are going to play out Allen’s contract, but those guys, and potentially even Kumero do, and shouldn’t be crazy expensive to resign. 
 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How did the NFLPA agree to more games without more roster spots? There should be 3 more roster spots for every extra game added. 

 

In fact wasn't that part of the initial deal? How did we get extra games but not 55-56 man rosters? 

 

Fair question.  I think the NFLPA screwed the players on this one.  I wonder if they winced and bought in because of the lower cap, though?  Lower cap and more players = less funds per player?

 

To the topic, Buffalo Bills article on Kumerow:

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/definition-of-a-gamer-jake-kumerow-aims-to-lock-down-a-spot-on-the-bills-53-man-

 

Quote

"The way that Coach Dabs (Daboll) has the offense drawn up, I like to be able to help them out in any way possible," Kumerow said. "Whether it's being an outside guy, an inside guy, being able to make blocks, being down the line of scrimmage making blocks, and also special teams. Being able to not only fit in on the offense but fit in there, be able to make plays and help us out give us good field position, and just be an all-around player so I love it here."

 

I will say from what I've seen, Kumerow can make blocks both downfield and down the LOS

[Jobot]

14 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

They don’t have the luxury at receiver to make decisions for this year only. Neither Sanders, Beasley or McKenzie are going to play out Allen’s contract, but those guys, and potentially even Kumero do, and shouldn’t be crazy expensive to resign. 

 

Good point here, didn't even think of that aspect. Did make me think, it'll hopefully be fun one day looking back at all maybe all the recievers that Josh Allen turns into pro-bowlers/hall of famers.

[GunnerBill]

On 8/25/2021 at 4:30 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Anyway, there's your answer: he was with the Bills for a cup of coffee in mid to late May, and has been gone since.

 

Or is now employed in the players canteen making coffee? 😛

[Bob in STL]

I think we carry 7.  Factor in that we now know at least 3 WRs are unvaccinated, 7 helps mitigate a risk.  

[Eastport bills]

We better have depth at receiver because the 3 guys(Cole,Isaiah and Davis)will invariably have issues with suspension or Covid quarantining. These question marks, along with breakthrough cases leave a cloud over the position group.