Doc Posted August 30, 2021 Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, cle23 said: See, I disagree. Most of them have played better when given the chance than Trubisky. Maybe Trubisky turned a corner in Buffalo, but that's hard to say after a couple preseason games. And yes, the rookies are unproven, but most them also played pretty well this preseason. The veterans have proven to be good players. Keenum led the Vikings to a 13-3 record in few years ago. Minshew was a good QB on a garbage Jacksonville team. Mariota has been a good starter. Lock may or may not be, he honestly is very similar to Trubisky of showing flashes but never putting it all together. Trubisky is a good backup. I just don't feel after 1 preseason you can anoint him the best backup in the league. He may prove me wrong. Disagreement is fine. But how the rookies fared in pre-season means nothing, especially when they went against backups at best. As for the rest, outside of Dalton who is done, they have losing records as starters. That trumps all, not some outlier season one of them might have had. 1
Patrick Duffy Posted August 30, 2021 Posted August 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Doc said: Disagreement is fine. But how the rookies fared in pre-season means nothing, especially when they went against backups at best. As for the rest, outside of Dalton who is done, they have losing records as starters. That trumps all, not some outlier season one of them might have had. Yeah dude, I don't know about you, but to me he lost credibility with the "Mariota has been a good starter" comment lol. 1
cle23 Posted August 30, 2021 Posted August 30, 2021 6 hours ago, Doc said: Disagreement is fine. But how the rookies fared in pre-season means nothing, especially when they went against backups at best. As for the rest, outside of Dalton who is done, they have losing records as starters. That trumps all, not some outlier season one of them might have had. So how the rookies fared in preseason means nothing, but how Trubisky fared in preseason is somehow super important? Trubisky was an average starter at best his whole career, has a good preseason for Buffalo against the same backups at best, and then suddenly is the best backup QB in the league. He may be, but there are plenty of other guys in the conversation. And while record matters, it certainly isn't the only factor. Minshew was a much better QB on a MUCH worse team. Chicago while Trubisky was there was always a decent team. Not world beaters, but they couldn't count on him to carry them at all. 6 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said: Yeah dude, I don't know about you, but to me he lost credibility with the "Mariota has been a good starter" comment lol. Good was probably the wrong word. Average. Decent. Whatever you want to say. Just as good as Trubisky was in Chicago. Not great, not terrible. 1
PatsFanNH Posted August 30, 2021 Posted August 30, 2021 On 8/29/2021 at 8:05 AM, Doc said: And yet the 49’ers are/have been trying to get rid of the “SB QB”…hmmm lol No they haven’t been. They actually pulled Jimmy G back before the draft. The Pats were supposedly close to getting him. That was before they got Jones so now they would have to wait till someone is desperate.
Doc Posted August 30, 2021 Posted August 30, 2021 2 hours ago, cle23 said: So how the rookies fared in preseason means nothing, but how Trubisky fared in preseason is somehow super important? Trubisky was an average starter at best his whole career, has a good preseason for Buffalo against the same backups at best, and then suddenly is the best backup QB in the league. He may be, but there are plenty of other guys in the conversation. And while record matters, it certainly isn't the only factor. Minshew was a much better QB on a MUCH worse team. Chicago while Trubisky was there was always a decent team. Not world beaters, but they couldn't count on him to carry them at all. Trubisky's pre-season meant little...other than confirming what I said when the Bills signed him: he is (now) the best backup QB in the league. He's got the starting experience the rookies lack. And even you yourself said he was an "average starter." And now he's a backup. As for Minshew, he was a nice story...during pre-season his rookie year. That was the highlight of his NFL career. 2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: No they haven’t been. They actually pulled Jimmy G back before the draft. The Pats were supposedly close to getting him. That was before they got Jones so now they would have to wait till someone is desperate. Why did they pull him back before the draft? Lack of good offers. And the 49'ers didn't draft Lance to be Jimmy G's backup. They're looking to move on from him and want to have Lance get some time to sit and develop behind him this year. 1
cle23 Posted August 30, 2021 Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Doc said: Trubisky's pre-season meant little...other than confirming what I said when the Bills signed him: he is (now) the best backup QB in the league. He's got the starting experience the rookies lack. And even you yourself said he was an "average starter." And now he's a backup. As for Minshew, he was a nice story...during pre-season his rookie year. That was the highlight of his NFL career. Why did they pull him back before the draft? Lack of good offers. And the 49'ers didn't draft Lance to be Jimmy G's backup. They're looking to move on from him and want to have Lance get some time to sit and develop behind him this year. Minshew had 37 TDs to 11 INTs on the worst team in football. Don't try to act like he's some garbage player. Straight up, given the choice, I take Minshew every time. If you would have asked anybody on this board last year if you wanted to Trubisky on your roster the answer would have been no. He isn't suddenly some great quarterback because hes on tge Bills roster. Edited August 30, 2021 by cle23
JakeFrommStateFarm Posted August 30, 2021 Posted August 30, 2021 Trubisky is not the best backup in the league. Foles is better. Minshew is better. Should I go on ?
Doc Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 3 hours ago, cle23 said: Minshew had 37 TDs to 11 INTs on the worst team in football. Don't try to act like he's some garbage player. Straight up, given the choice, I take Minshew every time. If you would have asked anybody on this board last year if you wanted to Trubisky on your roster the answer would have been no. He isn't suddenly some great quarterback because hes on tge Bills roster. Congrats to Minshew on his stats. He was given an audition this season and went 1-8 and is 7-13 overall. And whether you agree with it or not, that's how QBs are judged. It will be interesting though to see what he does in Philly. And if you asked anyone here if they would have wanted Trubisky as the backup to Josh for $2.5M, everyone would have said "hell yes!" Why you bring up the strawman "he is[n't] suddenly some great quarterback" is anyone's guess. 3 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said: Trubisky is not the best backup in the league. Foles is better. Minshew is better. Should I go on ? Foles? He isn't even the backup on the Bears, his 5th team. As for Minshew, see above. 1
cle23 Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doc said: Congrats to Minshew on his stats. He was given an audition this season and went 1-8 and is 7-13 overall. And whether you agree with it or not, that's how QBs are judged. It will be interesting though to see what he does in Philly. And if you asked anyone here if they would have wanted Trubisky as the backup to Josh for $2.5M, everyone would have said "hell yes!" Why you bring up the strawman "he is[n't] suddenly some great quarterback" is anyone's guess. Foles? He isn't even the backup on the Bears, his 5th team. As for Minshew, see above. Wins and loses are a factor of the equation, not the entire thing. You put Trubisky on Jacksonville and they are just as bad or worse. And Foles won a SB as a backup, and suddenly Trubisky is better. Give me a break man. He unseated Trubisky as the starter just last year. Edited August 31, 2021 by cle23
Weatherman Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 6 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said: Trubisky is not the best backup in the league. Foles is better. Minshew is better. Should I go on ? Desean Watson is the best backup QB in the league.
Doc Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 9 hours ago, cle23 said: Wins and loses are a factor of the equation, not the entire thing. You put Trubisky on Jacksonville and they are just as bad or worse. And Foles won a SB as a backup, and suddenly Trubisky is better. Give me a break man. He unseated Trubisky as the starter just last year. Wins and losses are a huge factor of the equation. If I'm looking at 2 QBs and both have good TD:INT ratios, I'll take the guy with the winning (and far far) better record. Because gaudy stats can be the result of racking them up in garbage time. And hypotheticals are just that. Foles is a box of chocolate QB: you never know what you're gonna get. Sure the Bears benched Trubisky for him, but they put him back in as starter. Then they went out and drafted a QB and signed a veteran starter, pushing Foles to 3rd on the depth chart. Nagy will be fired at the end of the year, if not before.
Patrick Duffy Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, Doc said: Wins and losses are a huge factor of the equation. If I'm looking at 2 QBs and both have good TD:INT ratios, I'll take the guy with the winning (and far far) better record. Because gaudy stats can be the result of racking them up in garbage time. And hypotheticals are just that. Foles is a box of chocolate QB: you never know what you're gonna get. Sure the Bears benched Trubisky for him, but they put him back in as starter. Then they went out and drafted a QB and signed a veteran starter, pushing Foles to 3rd on the depth chart. Nagy will be fired at the end of the year, if not before. I lost interest and moved on after the Mariota comment lol
Doc Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said: I lost interest and moved on after the Mariota comment lol I should have.
cle23 Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Doc said: Wins and losses are a huge factor of the equation. If I'm looking at 2 QBs and both have good TD:INT ratios, I'll take the guy with the winning (and far far) better record. Because gaudy stats can be the result of racking them up in garbage time. And hypotheticals are just that. Foles is a box of chocolate QB: you never know what you're gonna get. Sure the Bears benched Trubisky for him, but they put him back in as starter. Then they went out and drafted a QB and signed a veteran starter, pushing Foles to 3rd on the depth chart. Nagy will be fired at the end of the year, if not before. Wins and losses are a factor, but the entire team is a factor. You can't look at one team that is above average, and another that is worst in the league, and say that the quarterback on the better team means he is the better quarterback. Yes, there are TONS of factors to consider, and wins/losses is one, and TD/INT ratio is one. Talent of the other players, and supporting cast is a HUGE one. Trubisky had a far superior supporting cast than say Minshew. Also, Trubisky was put back in as the starter over Foles because Foles got injured, not because Trubisky deserved it. The game that Foles got hurt, they played Tyler Bray, not Trubisky. Trubisky then started the next week. Edited August 31, 2021 by cle23
Patrick Duffy Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, cle23 said: Wins and losses are a factor, but the entire team is a factor. You can't look at one team that is above average, and another that is worst in the league, and say that the quarterback on the better team means he is the better quarterback. Yes, there are TONS of factors to consider, and wins/losses is one, and TD/INT ratio is one. Talent of the other players, and supporting cast is a HUGE one. Trubisky had a far superior supporting cast than say Minshew. Also, Trubisky was put back in as the starter over Foles because Foles got injured, not because Trubisky deserved it. The game that Foles got hurt, they played Tyler Bray, not Trubisky. Trubisky then started the next week. Hey just to throw it out there, Cam is available now for a back up QB. So going by your opinions so far about this I would bet you also think Cam is a better back up QB than Mitch also right?
cle23 Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 14 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said: Hey just to throw it out there, Cam is available now for a back up QB. So going by your opinions so far about this I would bet you also think Cam is a better back up QB than Mitch also right? Honestly, I don't know. Cam looks like him arm is shot, so it's hard to say. He used to be able to run a lot, and he can some, but not like he could when he entered the league. Also, Trubisky is a lot younger, so he COULD improve, while Cam probably won't. So younger Cam, for sure, but Cam not, probably not. You guys seems to think I am saying Trubisky is hot garbage. I'm not. I honestly think he is an average QB at best, and one who won't lead you anywhere good if forced to play much. But that's probably the case with most backups, hence them being backups.
Patrick Duffy Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, cle23 said: Honestly, I don't know. Cam looks like him arm is shot, so it's hard to say. He used to be able to run a lot, and he can some, but not like he could when he entered the league. Also, Trubisky is a lot younger, so he COULD improve, while Cam probably won't. So younger Cam, for sure, but Cam not, probably not. You guys seems to think I am saying Trubisky is hot garbage. I'm not. I honestly think he is an average QB at best, and one who won't lead you anywhere good if forced to play much. But that's probably the case with most backups, hence them being backups. Nobody is saying he would take a team to SB or anything, far as I know. I'm saying if it's 4-5 games without your starter, imo he's the best QB2 as of right now that can give you the best chance to win those games. You have to remember, he didn't the best surroundings all that much with the Bears either
Doc Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 29 minutes ago, cle23 said: Wins and losses are a factor, but the entire team is a factor. You can't look at one team that is above average, and another that is worst in the league, and say that the quarterback on the better team means he is the better quarterback. Yes, there are TONS of factors to consider, and wins/losses is one, and TD/INT ratio is one. Talent of the other players, and supporting cast is a HUGE one. Trubisky had a far superior supporting cast than say Minshew. Also, Trubisky was put back in as the starter over Foles because Foles got injured, not because Trubisky deserved it. The game that Foles got hurt, they played Tyler Bray, not Trubisky. Trubisky then started the next week. But you can say that having a better TD:INT ratio but a terrible W-L record means he is better? Again QB is the most important position in football. A good one will make his supporting cast better. Foles was 3-5 as a starter or playing more than 50% of the snaps with the Bears. Trubisky was 5-3. And he was injured/inactive for that game in which Foles got hurt, hence playing Bray. Again, Nagy will be fired soon.
cle23 Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc said: But you can say that having a better TD:INT ratio but a terrible W-L record means he is better? Again QB is the most important position in football. A good one will make his supporting cast better. Foles was 3-5 as a starter or playing more than 50% of the snaps with the Bears. Trubisky was 5-3. And he was injured/inactive for that game in which Foles got hurt, hence playing Bray. Again, Nagy will be fired soon. I didn't say that the touchdown to interception ratio is the only factor. In my last post I said that it was one of many factors. I watched Trubisky and Minshew play several times and to me Minshew is the better player. I see tons of people post on this board all the time about how terrible Josh Allen's supporting cast was the 1st year and that was a big reason why he struggled so much. So obviously it is a big factor in your play and your development. Trubisky to me is a dime a dozen quarterback. He's got some legs to him and some physical ability but he struggles when asked to process must information.
Doc Posted September 1, 2021 Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, cle23 said: I didn't say that the touchdown to interception ratio is the only factor. In my last post I said that it was one of many factors. I watched Trubisky and Minshew play several times and to me Minshew is the better player. I see tons of people post on this board all the time about how terrible Josh Allen's supporting cast was the 1st year and that was a big reason why he struggled so much. So obviously it is a big factor in your play and your development. Trubisky to me is a dime a dozen quarterback. He's got some legs to him and some physical ability but he struggles when asked to process must information. I didn't say you said it was the only factor: I said you said it was the main factor. I said I'll take the guy with a good TD:INT ratio and winning record as my backup QB to hold down the fort should Josh miss time. And I heard the hype about Minshew but likewise was unimpressed whenever I watched him. Not sure if going to the Eagles is going to help in the "supporting cast" area, but at least he'll get to play with Ertz...
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