Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 2

[Rocky Landing]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Disagree on Kumerow / Stevenson just because what teams tend to claim in that period is often special teams guys, particularly returners. Especially poorer teams who have maybe had teams as an after thought to that point while they try to fix the O or the D. Although I think there is a strong chance Kumerow would be claimed too.

 

Perhaps, but of course, Kumerow has been playing on ST, as well. And I would think that the area of ST that poorer teams would have ignored would be the periphery spots, whereas they would have at least addressed K/PR. 

 

It all makes me consider... I think all teams, to some degree, are preparing for waivers, and have people watching tape (including the Bills) of value players that might get cut. It's no mystery in the league that the Bills are exceptionally deep at certain positions, WR being one of them. I wonder how much scrutiny the Bills are receiving around the league?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said:

Perhaps, but of course, Kumerow has been playing on ST, as well. And I would think that the area of ST that poorer teams would have ignored would be the periphery spots, whereas they would have at least addressed K/PR. 

 

It all makes me consider... I think all teams, to some degree, are preparing for waivers, and have people watching tape (including the Bills) of value players that might get cut. It's no mystery in the league that the Bills are exceptionally deep at certain positions, WR being one of them. I wonder how much scrutiny the Bills are receiving around the league?

 

Oh there will be guys cut from the Bills getting claimed or signed. 100%.

[Rocky Landing]

29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Come on.  He's 31st on the all-time passer rating list, and he's 18th among all active players.  He is most definitely a starter in the NFL.  He's won over half his game, and that's while playing on some demonstrably bad teams.  

Worth noting also, his interception occurred because his WR slipped, and fell, after the ball was thrown.

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Come on.  He's 31st on the all-time passer rating list, and he's 18th among all active players.  He is most definitely a starter in the NFL.  He's won over half his game, and that's while playing on some demonstrably bad teams.  

 

Nah. This Andy Dalton is not that Andy Dalton. That last injury in Cincy took something away from him. He was bad on a really talented offense in Dallas. At this point Dalton is definitely not a starter. I am not even sure he is the best backup on the Bears. Think that is Foles. He has been an above average starter. So has Joe Flacco. Neither are starting quality now.

[Rocky Landing]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh there will be guys cut from the Bills getting claimed or signed. 100%.

No doubt about it. I'm suspecting that teams who are thin at WR, and DE are paying especially close attention to the Bills in particular. And I'm assuming the Bills are paying close attention to teams that might be deep at OL, and CB.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Rocky Landing

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I think he actually got one in at LDT, Frazier was getting cute😂😂

 

Yea he did. From a 2 point stance. Ed lined up as the Right End. 3rd and long play.

1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said:

No doubt about it. I'm suspecting that teams who are thin at WR, and DE are paying especially close attention to the Bills in particular. And I'm assuming the Bills are paying close attention to teams that might be deep at OL.

 

And corner. Tackle depth league wide is bad. Encouraging that Spencer played well last night. Hope he isn't hurt too bad.

[Rocky Landing]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

 

And corner. Tackle depth league wide is bad. Encouraging that Spencer played well last night. Hope he isn't hurt too bad.

LOL, I just made that correction right before you responded!

[Utah John]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Silver lining — if they stash Stevenson on the practice squad with a genuine (not fake!) foot injury or put him on 8-week IR, he is less likely to be snatched away by another team. I don’t think he makes the roster as it is, but he’s a good developmental prospect and I wouldn't like to lose him.

I don't think Stevenson gets to stick around if he's on the PS. Some other team will grab him.  I wouldn't be surprised if the walking boot turns into a long-term feature, and he goes on IR for the season, essentially giving him a red-shirt year so we can keep him until next year when we'll see what we see with aging Sanders and Beasley.  I'm not saying those two will be gone next year, just that we don't really know what's going to happen, and Stevenson looks like too much of a talent to let him be grabbed away.

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, Utah John said:

I don't think Stevenson gets to stick around if he's on the PS. Some other team will grab him.  I wouldn't be surprised if the walking boot turns into a long-term feature, and he goes on IR for the season, essentially giving him a red-shirt year so we can keep him until next year when we'll see what we see with aging Sanders and Beasley.  I'm not saying those two will be gone next year, just that we don't really know what's going to happen, and Stevenson looks like too much of a talent to let him be grabbed away.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the same rules for protecting players on the PS that were instituted last season apply this season, as well. So, the trick would be getting Stevenson on the PS, not keeping him there.

[Shaw66]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah. This Andy Dalton is not that Andy Dalton. That last injury in Cincy took something away from him. He was bad on a really talented offense in Dallas. At this point Dalton is definitely not a starter. I am not even sure he is the best backup on the Bears. Think that is Foles. He has been an above average starter. So has Joe Flacco. Neither are starting quality now.

Not worth arguing about it.  I don't want him as my starter.   But he was 25th in the league in passer rating last season on a team that's been dysfunctional for years.  Now he's playing for a team that hasn't had a clue about offense for years.  

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Not worth arguing about it.  I don't want him as my starter.   But he was 25th in the league in passer rating last season on a team that's been dysfunctional for years.  Now he's playing for a team that hasn't had a clue about offense for years.  

 

On a team whose starter was leading the league in passing when he went down. Dallas had many faults last year but they should have been a dynamic passing attack and were with Dak. 

 

People are too slow to move off Quarterbacks who have the history. Dalton is another of those cases. Eli Manning was one. Flacco was one. I think Wentz is also one. Just because you were a competent Quarterback once does not mean you still are. In my view Dalton is the 3rd best Quarterback on his own team.

[Ta111]

48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh there will be guys cut from the Bills getting claimed or signed. 100%.

Yes, even the Bears announcers stated several times that players cut by the Bills would end up on other teams 53. They’re that deep.

[Andy1]

I too think they keep Stevenson somehow, someway. They need a backup returner for McKenzie and he is it. If McK gets hurt, what’s the plan? He is young and shows promising talent the Bills lack - breakaway speed. Kumerow, who is 30 and while having a good camp, is more replaceable with what he offers. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh there will be guys cut from the Bills getting claimed or signed. 100%.

He's watching...

[LABILLBACKER]

13 hours ago, ganesh said:

No mention of the three knee injuries in the bad night. It included Stevenson 

 

Kumerow is a mismatch with his speed and size.  He is definitely making this roster 

Stevenson and Kumerow are both making this team. The Bills will roll with 7. Haack was underwhelming but Bojo wanted too much. Maybe Gilliam acts as the 3rd TE rather than FB.  Stop with the ridiculous Trade Mitch threads. What we need to do is find a creative way of keeping him beyond this season. Hollister should be TE1, I'm tired of waiting around for Dawson Creek to figure it out. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by LABILLBACKER

[L Ron Burgundy]

Great write up.  The d line could really be a huge improvement hopefully Rousseau can keep getting better and contribute in the regular season.   I think Hollister may end up being our Te1 on obvious pass plays.

Edited August 23, 2021 by L Ron Burgundy

[Rocky Landing]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this opinion, but I'm going to say it anyway:

 

A lot of hay has been made regarding Stevenson's punt return for a TD. I have read posts on this site declaring that Stevenson has "won" the K/PR position from McKenzie. That he has "guaranteed" himself a spot on the 53. One such post declared "Kumerow is out." 

 

And, yeah, he was very fast, and shifty, and sure, Lil Dirty muffed one. But listen, in preseason games-- especially late in preseason games-- coaches have a lot of bubble players out there on kicks, and punts to see if they can handle special teams duties in a real game. We should all know that the players who are low on the depth chart are basically required to be able to play special teams, and preseason games are the coaches' best opportunity to evaluate them. And, the thinner a team is in depth (like Da Bears), the crappier the bubble players are going to be.

 

Am I the only one who thought that return looked a little too easy? Don't get me wrong-- Stevenson certainly increased his stock with that play. But, I suspect that people are making a much bigger deal out of it than perhaps it is.

 

Flame away.

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

If epenesa is better than Jerry, he should start @ RE.  If he’s not, Jerry should start @ RE.  My money is on Jerry.  Or do they plan on Jerry starting @ LE opposite Epenesa while bringing the rookie Rousseau off the bench?   I just don’t think Jerry will be asked to come off the bench. 

Since our  coaching staff rotate the folks on the DL constantly,  starting a game is just symbolic.   

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Since our  coaching staff rotate the folks on the DL constantly,  starting a game is just symbolic.   

Yeah, I should’ve said get the majority of the snaps. Last year jerry player around 59% of the defensive snaps.  I think that will take a slight dip this year but still hope that he plays over 50% and rush primarily from the right side, opposite Rousseau on important 3rd downs

[IgotBILLStopay]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Here we go... my take on who hurt themselves and who helped themselves in our beatdown of the Bears:

 

Good Night for...

 

Mitch Trubisky - Let's start with the returning hero Mitch Trubisky going back to the team that gave up on him (and he would still be the best QB on their roster right now). His first drive he was a little amped up and high on a couple of balls, but overall Mitch had a great half. I was advocating last year for an upgrade on Matt Barkley. A team with a Superbowl level roster and a Quarterback still earning essentially rookie level money for the year should have a high end backup. If (heaven forbid) Josh missed time Mitch could keep this team on track. 

 

The "starting" defensive line - Okay Greg Rousseau will grab the headlines, and rightly so he stood out again, but the whole of that 'starting' dline - Rousseau, Phillips, Oliver and Epenesa - was outstanding. They demolished the Bears (admittedly poor) starting oline. Rousseau grabbed another sack, two in two games, and Epenesa got a couple of really impressive pressures and one big Quarterback hit. I was impressed with Harrison Phillips again too - he had a batted ball on the first play and pushed the pocket well. He left the game injured and hopefully it is nothing serious. They also played the run better this week. All four of them were impressive and I also liked the fact Leslie had them move about and line up in different spots. Ed rushed once from the edge, AJ rushed stood up from the interior.... it remains to be seen what it looks like when the lights go on against the Steelers but so far so good on improving the line play.  

 

Jacob Hollister - Dawson Knox remains atop of the depth chart and has started both pre-season games but he had another drop today and Job Hollister caught 3 for 53 and a 2 point conversion. He isn't the athletic freak that Knox is but he has looked like a solid addition who knows his role and has safe hands. I'm not sure the staff sees Tight End as a live "competition" but I think you are going to see both get plenty of opportunities when the regular season starts. 

 

Reggie Gilliam - Not sure there was ever any doubt about Gilliam making the roster but a really nice night for him, 2 short yardage touchdowns, plus a short yardage conversion for a first down and a really nice block on the Zack Moss run to the 1. He is a core special teamer, he can play full back, he can play tight end, and he ended this game playing some tailback. He is just the definition of a McBeane player - versatile, smart, tough, and with that underdog chip on his shoulder. The up-back handoffs in short yardage and goalline situations definitely look like an addition to the offense, it's not something this staff has done a lot before now though I remember Marrone and Hackett used them occasionally with Frank "the tank" Summers a few years back. 

 

Marquez Stevenson - With that one play on punt return I think this kid secured his place in Buffalo. You can't cut guys with his speed who score special teams touchdowns in pre-season and expect them to get through waivers. It almost never happens. Teams with less depth will be willing to take a shot and just use him as a returner. I still don't think he looks anything special as a receiver at this point and given the players ahead of him finding a spot is tricky. Could they stash him on IR? Sure. Could they put him on the 53 thinking "we will cut him a few weeks into the season when teams are a bit more settled and then sneak him on the practice squad".... they could definitely try that but that is what Denver tried with Isaiah McKenzie three years ago and the Bills (at the time a bad team with little depth) liked the upside enough to claim him. Unless Buffalo is willing to lose him, Stevenson has to be on the squad in my opinion. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Outside corner depth - I commented last week and I am still concerned. Siran Neal was a bit unlucky on the long touchdown throw because he had good position but at the same time my concerns about his speed as an outside guy remain. Dane Jackson played better than last week, he was tighter in coverage and just more active and around the ball. Nick McCloud had a pick on Dalton but just generally I still feel the Bills are thinner at the spot than a Superbowl contender should be. Interestingly I didn't see Levi Wallace out there at all (please correct me if I just missed him) which would suggest given that he did start last week that McDermott and Frazier have now declared whatever battle there was for CB2 over. 

 

Jake Kumerow - Seems slightly harsh to have a player who scored a touchdown on the "bad night" list but it was hard to find guys for this category this week after that performance. Here is my thinking on Kumerow: he had two bad drops. Yes the ball was a bit off target on the first but still he should have hauled it in. Also Isaiah McKenzie proved yet again that he is the 5th best receiver on this team, led the Bills in yards and receptions, can play outside and in the slot, and even if you ignore the returners job he belongs on this roster. Then Stevenson has the big return and makes himself very difficult to sneak onto the practice squad as discussed above. All of which means the WR6 spot that Kumerow looked to have essentially tied up might just be a little vulnerable again. The Bills could choose to go with 7, of course, but what looked like a done deal at receiver suddenly got interesting. 

 

Matt Haack - Not a great night for the Bills' new punter. It was remarked on by a few people last week that he seemed to take a while to get his punt off and on his shanked 29 yarder in the 2nd quarter the Bears definitely got close enough to disrupt his motion. He also had a 48 yarder in the second half where he was guilty of the thing I used to criticise Bojo for pretty frequently - out kicking his coverage with poor hang time. Was not impressed. Worth watching when the season kicks off. 

 

Jake Fromm - I know, I know, it sounds like I just wanna get on the kid's back, I really don't but 3/7 for 20 yards at 2.9 yards per attempt. I'm sorry I see nothing that suggests he has the arm to play in the league. I didn't think Davis Webb shone yesterday either, but at least he manages to get the ball out and into the hands of his playmakers. Fromm is the 4th best Quarterback on the roster. He could still land on the practice squad but I would have thought Webb will be ahead of him for that spot if he also clears waivers. There is no reason for the Bills to keep either of them as a 3rd guy on the 53. 

 

The 3rd team offensive line - You know you are struggling for negatives when you have to start digging into the 3rd team oline but these guys were all over the place. I was pretty happy with the Jack Anderson selection in the 7th round (I had him graded a little higher) but having seen him play two games he very much fits in the category of "developmental prospect" who needs some time and seasoning. Jordan Devey also majorly struggled at center. There was nobody on this line who looks like making a late push for the roster. 

 

 

There you have it folks. That is how I saw week 2!

Missed McKenzie man! He was the man on offense - more so than even Trubisky.