Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 2

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Here we go... my take on who hurt themselves and who helped themselves in our beatdown of the Bears:

 

Good Night for...

 

Mitch Trubisky - Let's start with the returning hero Mitch Trubisky going back to the team that gave up on him (and he would still be the best QB on their roster right now). His first drive he was a little amped up and high on a couple of balls, but overall Mitch had a great half. I was advocating last year for an upgrade on Matt Barkley. A team with a Superbowl level roster and a Quarterback still earning essentially rookie level money for the year should have a high end backup. If (heaven forbid) Josh missed time Mitch could keep this team on track. 

 

The "starting" defensive line - Okay Greg Rousseau will grab the headlines, and rightly so he stood out again, but the whole of that 'starting' dline - Rousseau, Phillips, Oliver and Epenesa - was outstanding. They demolished the Bears (admittedly poor) starting oline. Rousseau grabbed another sack, two in two games, and Epenesa got a couple of really impressive pressures and one big Quarterback hit. I was impressed with Harrison Phillips again too - he had a batted ball on the first play and pushed the pocket well. He left the game injured and hopefully it is nothing serious. They also played the run better this week. All four of them were impressive and I also liked the fact Leslie had them move about and line up in different spots. Ed rushed once from the edge, AJ rushed stood up from the interior.... it remains to be seen what it looks like when the lights go on against the Steelers but so far so good on improving the line play.  

 

Jacob Hollister - Dawson Knox remains atop of the depth chart and has started both pre-season games but he had another drop today and Job Hollister caught 3 for 53 and a 2 point conversion. He isn't the athletic freak that Knox is but he has looked like a solid addition who knows his role and has safe hands. I'm not sure the staff sees Tight End as a live "competition" but I think you are going to see both get plenty of opportunities when the regular season starts. 

 

Reggie Gilliam - Not sure there was ever any doubt about Gilliam making the roster but a really nice night for him, 2 short yardage touchdowns, plus a short yardage conversion for a first down and a really nice block on the Zack Moss run to the 1. He is a core special teamer, he can play full back, he can play tight end, and he ended this game playing some tailback. He is just the definition of a McBeane player - versatile, smart, tough, and with that underdog chip on his shoulder. The up-back handoffs in short yardage and goalline situations definitely look like an addition to the offense, it's not something this staff has done a lot before now though I remember Marrone and Hackett used them occasionally with Frank "the tank" Summers a few years back. 

 

Marquez Stevenson - With that one play on punt return I think this kid secured his place in Buffalo. You can't cut guys with his speed who score special teams touchdowns in pre-season and expect them to get through waivers. It almost never happens. Teams with less depth will be willing to take a shot and just use him as a returner. I still don't think he looks anything special as a receiver at this point and given the players ahead of him finding a spot is tricky. Could they stash him on IR? Sure. Could they put him on the 53 thinking "we will cut him a few weeks into the season when teams are a bit more settled and then sneak him on the practice squad".... they could definitely try that but that is what Denver tried with Isaiah McKenzie three years ago and the Bills (at the time a bad team with little depth) liked the upside enough to claim him. Unless Buffalo is willing to lose him, Stevenson has to be on the squad in my opinion. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Outside corner depth - I commented last week and I am still concerned. Siran Neal was a bit unlucky on the long touchdown throw because he had good position but at the same time my concerns about his speed as an outside guy remain. Dane Jackson played better than last week, he was tighter in coverage and just more active and around the ball. Nick McCloud had a pick on Dalton but just generally I still feel the Bills are thinner at the spot than a Superbowl contender should be. Interestingly I didn't see Levi Wallace out there at all (please correct me if I just missed him) which would suggest given that he did start last week that McDermott and Frazier have now declared whatever battle there was for CB2 over. 

 

Jake Kumerow - Seems slightly harsh to have a player who scored a touchdown on the "bad night" list but it was hard to find guys for this category this week after that performance. Here is my thinking on Kumerow: he had two bad drops. Yes the ball was a bit off target on the first but still he should have hauled it in. Also Isaiah McKenzie proved yet again that he is the 5th best receiver on this team, led the Bills in yards and receptions, can play outside and in the slot, and even if you ignore the returners job he belongs on this roster. Then Stevenson has the big return and makes himself very difficult to sneak onto the practice squad as discussed above. All of which means the WR6 spot that Kumerow looked to have essentially tied up might just be a little vulnerable again. The Bills could choose to go with 7, of course, but what looked like a done deal at receiver suddenly got interesting. 

 

Matt Haack - Not a great night for the Bills' new punter. It was remarked on by a few people last week that he seemed to take a while to get his punt off and on his shanked 29 yarder in the 2nd quarter the Bears definitely got close enough to disrupt his motion. He also had a 48 yarder in the second half where he was guilty of the thing I used to criticise Bojo for pretty frequently - out kicking his coverage with poor hang time. Was not impressed. Worth watching when the season kicks off. 

 

Jake Fromm - I know, I know, it sounds like I just wanna get on the kid's back, I really don't but 3/7 for 20 yards at 2.9 yards per attempt. I'm sorry I see nothing that suggests he has the arm to play in the league. I didn't think Davis Webb shone yesterday either, but at least he manages to get the ball out and into the hands of his playmakers. Fromm is the 4th best Quarterback on the roster. He could still land on the practice squad but I would have thought Webb will be ahead of him for that spot if he also clears waivers. There is no reason for the Bills to keep either of them as a 3rd guy on the 53. 

 

The 3rd team offensive line - You know you are struggling for negatives when you have to start digging into the 3rd team oline but these guys were all over the place. I was pretty happy with the Jack Anderson selection in the 7th round (I had him graded a little higher) but having seen him play two games he very much fits in the category of "developmental prospect" who needs some time and seasoning. Jordan Devey also majorly struggled at center. There was nobody on this line who looks like making a late push for the roster. 

 

 

There you have it folks. That is how I saw week 2!

 

Agree with most of your comments, but will add the following

 

WRT Haack the punter, I think the Bills moved on from Bojo for three reasons;

He was asking for more money than they wanted to pay him

Maybe they did get close on $$, but then he wanted a shorter deal and the Bills wanted a longer commitment from him

He was shaky on holding

 

While I agree with you on the punting was less than stellar I can't help but wonder if the Bills were willing to give up some yards on punting in exchange for better holds on kicks.  The way this offense looks there's maybe more kicking opportunities than punts.  Seems more games are won/lost on made/missed FG's than a long punt return.  They do happen, but not as much as the field goals.  Plus seems like Haack's issue is distance, not hang time so yeah maybe some yards are given up, but little in returns

[Virgil]

On the first pass to Jake, the defender was holding his other arm.  I can’t fault him for that first one. 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I agree with the list...........except I'd put Spencer Brown 3rd on "good night".

 

He really was excellent against Mack.

 

If he doesn't turn into a guy who can't stay healthy that pick might turn out to be a HR for Beane.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree with most of your comments, but will add the following

 

WRT Haack the punter, I think the Bills moved on from Bojo for three reasons;

He was asking for more money than they wanted to pay him

Maybe they did get close on $$, but then he wanted a shorter deal and the Bills wanted a longer commitment from him

He was shaky on holding

 

While I agree with you on the punting was less than stellar I can't help but wonder if the Bills were willing to give up some yards on punting in exchange for better holds on kicks.  The way this offense looks there's maybe more kicking opportunities than punts.  Seems more games are won/lost on made/missed FG's than a long punt return.  They do happen, but not as much as the field goals.  Plus seems like Haack's issue is distance, not hang time so yeah maybe some yards are given up, but little in returns

 

I understand why they moved on. I was never a Bojo fan. Thought he was a big leg and not much else. But I haven't loved Haack from what I have seen so far. The time he takes to get his kicks off concerns me most. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

His draft projection was as a RT. I think they are just giving him reps at LT too so he can be their primary swing tackle. Based on how he looked yesterday I am wondering how easy it would be to get out of Darryl Williams' contract after this year. Next year I think Brown will be ready.

 

I think you're thinking like Brandon Beane. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/daryl-williams-16828/

 

If the Bills part way with Williams in the off-season next year, they have $3.6M dead cap (signing bonus) - his 2022 salary doesn't guarantee until the 5th day of 2022.

So basically, Williams has a 3 year, #9 RT deal that could be seen as a 1 yr, $9.4M (#4 for RT) deal.

 

If the Bills like Brown as their RT next season, they could move on from Williams for a savings of $5.3M.  If Williams plays well this season, he would easily gain a better deal somewhere else with 2 years of top RT play after comeback, so it's kind of a win-win for him too.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I agree with the list...........except I'd put Spencer Brown 3rd on "good night".

 

He really was excellent against Mack.

 

If he doesn't turn into a guy who can't stay healthy that pick might turn out to be a HR for Beane.

 

I will go back and watch Brown. I was actually focussing on Dion while he was out there but a few people have mentioned him. Definitely need him because I have no faith in Doyle or Hart.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

While I agree with you on the punting was less than stellar I can't help but wonder if the Bills were willing to give up some yards on punting in exchange for better holds on kicks.  The way this offense looks there's maybe more kicking opportunities than punts.  Seems more games are won/lost on made/missed FG's than a long punt return.  They do happen, but not as much as the field goals.  Plus seems like Haack's issue is distance, not hang time so yeah maybe some yards are given up, but little in returns

 

The hesitation in getting the ball off is my concern for Haack.

 

He can't boom them like Bojo could, but Bojo kicked into the EZ a lot, while Haack (I think) did a better job of putting the punts inside the 20.

[Philo]

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I don't know.  I think Devey is a decent guard.  They've been looking for positional flexibility from him, and I think the answer to "can he play tackle?"  "can he play guard?" is No.

 

How many do we cut this Tues?

 

They have to cut five players if I understand the new rules correctly.

 

I guess I just haven't seen anything from Devey that makes me want to keep him around any longer. He's been in the league 7 years I believe and is still 3rd string at best. The only leg up he has on other bottom of the roster guys is experience with the team and system since he was on PS last season. I just don't think that warrants keeping him over a younger guy that has a better chance at improving at this point in their respective careers. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I understand why they moved on. I was never a Bojo fan. Thought he was a big leg and not much else. But I haven't loved Haack from what I have seen so far. The time he takes to get his kicks off concerns me most. 

 

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The hesitation in getting the ball off is my concern for Haack.

 

He can't boom them like Bojo could, but Bojo kicked into the EZ a lot, while Haack (I think) did a better job of putting the punts inside the 20.

 

Certainly a blocked punt would be pretty bad, as long as that doesn't happen, overall I'll take the better holding over less gross yards

 

He's only had one punt ever blocked in his career.

 

LOL Maybe that's his strategy, lull the defense into thinking they're gonna block it, only to end up with a roughing the kicker call instead.

[billykay]

15 minutes ago, Virgil said:

On the first pass to Jake, the defender was holding his other arm.  I can’t fault him for that first one. 

This. Not my definition of a drop. Just a good play by the DB.

[NewEra]

Great stuff, per usual GB.  Thanks for sharing.  
 

Regarding the “good night”, those we my thoughts exactly regarding the DL and where the DLmen are lining up.  Exotic schemes created to confuse the qb and the OL.  Love it.  
 

After 2 preseason games, Rousseau is the most impressive rookie I’ve seen in a Bills uniform since…….maybe Jarius Byrd?  Can’t wait to see more.  Also can’t wait to see Jerry back on the right side……hopefully that happens.  He moved to the left last year for the sake of Addison wanting to play the right.  Hopefully addison will be cut or on the bench and a Jerry can return to his old home

 

I feel 💯 the same regarding Stevenson.  Keep him on the 53 or IR or he’ll be on another teams roster opening day.  Most likely the pats, jets or fins.  Keep 7 WRs or we might have to cut Kumerow.   I hope Hodgins goes to IR again, but I doubt he is ever more than a PS player for this team.

 

Josh Allen is our QB.  Rest easy
 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

After 2 preseason games, Rousseau is the most impressive rookie I’ve seen in a Bills uniform since…….maybe Jarius Byrd?  Can’t wait to see more.  Also can’t wait to see Jerry back on the right side……hopefully that happens.  He moved to the left last year for the sake of Addison wanting to play the right.  Hopefully addison will be cut or on the bench and a Jerry can return to his old home

 

Except...clearly the Bills want to work Epenesa into the rotation and hasn't he been exclusively on the R?

 

Quote

I feel 💯 the same regarding Stevenson.  Keep him on the 53 or IR or he’ll be on another teams roster opening day.  Most likely the pats, jets or fins.  Keep 7 WRs or we might have to cut Kumerow.   I hope Hodgins goes to IR again, but I doubt he is ever more than a PS player for this team.

 

I agree that we need to keep or IR Stevenson.  The Bills drafted him knowing he was a developmental receiver who had that uncoachable "speed" trait, you can't expect to achieve that if you cut such players.

 

My hope is that the Bills have been trying Kumerow at gunner and see enough there they'll be willing to part with Taiwan Jones, then go with 3 RB to open another WR spot as well as go with 2 TE and PS Sweeney or whichever of the developmental TE looks best.

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I am not sure Kumerow has 4 accrued years so would apply to him too but might be wrong.

 

Jake only has 3 years.  He is subject to waivers.

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except...clearly the Bills want to work Epenesa into the rotation and hasn't he been exclusively on the R?

 

 

I agree that we need to keep or IR Stevenson.  The Bills drafted him knowing he was a developmental receiver who had that uncoachable "speed" trait, you can't expect to achieve that if you cut such players.

 

My hope is that the Bills have been trying Kumerow at gunner and see enough there they'll be willing to part with Taiwan Jones, then go with 3 RB to open another WR spot as well as go with 2 TE and PS Sweeney or whichever of the developmental TE looks best.

If epenesa is better than Jerry, he should start @ RE.  If he’s not, Jerry should start @ RE.  My money is on Jerry.  Or do they plan on Jerry starting @ LE opposite Epenesa while bringing the rookie Rousseau off the bench?   I just don’t think Jerry will be asked to come off the bench. 

[GoBills808]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except...clearly the Bills want to work Epenesa into the rotation and hasn't he been exclusively on the R?

I think he actually got one in at LDT, Frazier was getting cute😂😂

[ticketssince61]

1. A few things that stood out for  me:

 

1. The percentage of passes on offense

 

I think Daboll has come to the realization that with JA and our receivers - passing is the way to go and running will only be supplemental to keep teams honest

Thus, I think we keep a lot of receivers to keep them all fresh and tire out the other team's DB's. We also ran a ton of screen, short passes, and bubble screens. It is a way to get the ball into the hands of the speedy receivers out in space. I think we have a great combo of weapons: Diggs and Beasley for ability / Kumerow and Davis for Size / and McKenzie and Stevenson for speed and excitement

 

2. Davis Webb onto PS 

3 TO's in 3 possessions against 2nd or 3rd stringers should be a death knell. but Keep him on PS for his other non football skills. Sits on PS for a few years, and then becomes QB coach. I think Fromm also goes to PS to keep a roster spot available. 

 

3.Hollister might be starting TE

He looked so much better than knox and does not drop those ball. Maybe Knox should have practiced more with catching real footballs and less with ping pong balls

 

4. Bears are pathetic!

Dalton is not a starter in this league, and Fields will be starter early in the season whether he is ready or not

Edited August 22, 2021 by ticketssince61

[Rocky Landing]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Here we go... my take on who hurt themselves and who helped themselves in our beatdown of the Bears:

 

Good Night for...

 

Mitch Trubisky - Let's start with the returning hero Mitch Trubisky going back to the team that gave up on him (and he would still be the best QB on their roster right now). His first drive he was a little amped up and high on a couple of balls, but overall Mitch had a great half. I was advocating last year for an upgrade on Matt Barkley. A team with a Superbowl level roster and a Quarterback still earning essentially rookie level money for the year should have a high end backup. If (heaven forbid) Josh missed time Mitch could keep this team on track. 

 

The "starting" defensive line - Okay Greg Rousseau will grab the headlines, and rightly so he stood out again, but the whole of that 'starting' dline - Rousseau, Phillips, Oliver and Epenesa - was outstanding. They demolished the Bears (admittedly poor) starting oline. Rousseau grabbed another sack, two in two games, and Epenesa got a couple of really impressive pressures and one big Quarterback hit. I was impressed with Harrison Phillips again too - he had a batted ball on the first play and pushed the pocket well. He left the game injured and hopefully it is nothing serious. They also played the run better this week. All four of them were impressive and I also liked the fact Leslie had them move about and line up in different spots. Ed rushed once from the edge, AJ rushed stood up from the interior.... it remains to be seen what it looks like when the lights go on against the Steelers but so far so good on improving the line play.  

 

Jacob Hollister - Dawson Knox remains atop of the depth chart and has started both pre-season games but he had another drop today and Job Hollister caught 3 for 53 and a 2 point conversion. He isn't the athletic freak that Knox is but he has looked like a solid addition who knows his role and has safe hands. I'm not sure the staff sees Tight End as a live "competition" but I think you are going to see both get plenty of opportunities when the regular season starts. 

 

Reggie Gilliam - Not sure there was ever any doubt about Gilliam making the roster but a really nice night for him, 2 short yardage touchdowns, plus a short yardage conversion for a first down and a really nice block on the Zack Moss run to the 1. He is a core special teamer, he can play full back, he can play tight end, and he ended this game playing some tailback. He is just the definition of a McBeane player - versatile, smart, tough, and with that underdog chip on his shoulder. The up-back handoffs in short yardage and goalline situations definitely look like an addition to the offense, it's not something this staff has done a lot before now though I remember Marrone and Hackett used them occasionally with Frank "the tank" Summers a few years back. 

 

Marquez Stevenson - With that one play on punt return I think this kid secured his place in Buffalo. You can't cut guys with his speed who score special teams touchdowns in pre-season and expect them to get through waivers. It almost never happens. Teams with less depth will be willing to take a shot and just use him as a returner. I still don't think he looks anything special as a receiver at this point and given the players ahead of him finding a spot is tricky. Could they stash him on IR? Sure. Could they put him on the 53 thinking "we will cut him a few weeks into the season when teams are a bit more settled and then sneak him on the practice squad".... they could definitely try that but that is what Denver tried with Isaiah McKenzie three years ago and the Bills (at the time a bad team with little depth) liked the upside enough to claim him. Unless Buffalo is willing to lose him, Stevenson has to be on the squad in my opinion. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Outside corner depth - I commented last week and I am still concerned. Siran Neal was a bit unlucky on the long touchdown throw because he had good position but at the same time my concerns about his speed as an outside guy remain. Dane Jackson played better than last week, he was tighter in coverage and just more active and around the ball. Nick McCloud had a pick on Dalton but just generally I still feel the Bills are thinner at the spot than a Superbowl contender should be. Interestingly I didn't see Levi Wallace out there at all (please correct me if I just missed him) which would suggest given that he did start last week that McDermott and Frazier have now declared whatever battle there was for CB2 over. 

 

Jake Kumerow - Seems slightly harsh to have a player who scored a touchdown on the "bad night" list but it was hard to find guys for this category this week after that performance. Here is my thinking on Kumerow: he had two bad drops. Yes the ball was a bit off target on the first but still he should have hauled it in. Also Isaiah McKenzie proved yet again that he is the 5th best receiver on this team, led the Bills in yards and receptions, can play outside and in the slot, and even if you ignore the returners job he belongs on this roster. Then Stevenson has the big return and makes himself very difficult to sneak onto the practice squad as discussed above. All of which means the WR6 spot that Kumerow looked to have essentially tied up might just be a little vulnerable again. The Bills could choose to go with 7, of course, but what looked like a done deal at receiver suddenly got interesting. 

 

Matt Haack - Not a great night for the Bills' new punter. It was remarked on by a few people last week that he seemed to take a while to get his punt off and on his shanked 29 yarder in the 2nd quarter the Bears definitely got close enough to disrupt his motion. He also had a 48 yarder in the second half where he was guilty of the thing I used to criticise Bojo for pretty frequently - out kicking his coverage with poor hang time. Was not impressed. Worth watching when the season kicks off. 

 

Jake Fromm - I know, I know, it sounds like I just wanna get on the kid's back, I really don't but 3/7 for 20 yards at 2.9 yards per attempt. I'm sorry I see nothing that suggests he has the arm to play in the league. I didn't think Davis Webb shone yesterday either, but at least he manages to get the ball out and into the hands of his playmakers. Fromm is the 4th best Quarterback on the roster. He could still land on the practice squad but I would have thought Webb will be ahead of him for that spot if he also clears waivers. There is no reason for the Bills to keep either of them as a 3rd guy on the 53. 

 

The 3rd team offensive line - You know you are struggling for negatives when you have to start digging into the 3rd team oline but these guys were all over the place. I was pretty happy with the Jack Anderson selection in the 7th round (I had him graded a little higher) but having seen him play two games he very much fits in the category of "developmental prospect" who needs some time and seasoning. Jordan Devey also majorly struggled at center. There was nobody on this line who looks like making a late push for the roster. 

 

 

There you have it folks. That is how I saw week 2!

Agree with all of this, but I have a couple comments: 

Haack's shank occurred due to pressure. He is a tad slow getting the ball off, but he should have had better protection than on that play. Also, my recollection is that his punt when he was pinned in the end zone was pretty damned good.

 

You're right about Kumerow, but I suspect that he would get claimed off waivers quicker than Stevenson. A lot of eyes have been on that guy.

[Scott7975]

I think Kumerow makes the roster because he adds something to the group that others don't have.  Big red zone target.

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Agree with all of this, but I have a couple comments: 

Haack's shank occurred due to pressure. He is a tad slow getting the ball off, but he should have had better protection than on that play. Also, my recollection is that his punt when he was pinned in the end zone was pretty damned good.

 

You're right about Kumerow, but I suspect that he would get claimed off waivers quicker than Stevenson. A lot of eyes have been on that guy.

 

Disagree on Kumerow / Stevenson just because what teams tend to claim in that period is often special teams guys, particularly returners. Especially poorer teams who have maybe had teams as an after thought to that point while they try to fix the O or the D. Although I think there is a strong chance Kumerow would be claimed too.

 

On Haack - you are right he didn't have great protection. Jaquan Johnson was out and he is their primary personal protector for the punter. Would have to look back at who they had in that spot.

[Shaw66]

44 minutes ago, ticketssince61 said:

 

Dalton is not a starter in this league,

Come on.  He's 31st on the all-time passer rating list, and he's 18th among all active players.  He is most definitely a starter in the NFL.  He's won over half his game, and that's while playing on some demonstrably bad teams.