The "Right Josh" is no longer available; signed by the Falcons.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, NickelCity said:

 

I actually disagree. I think this narrative that Bills fans who were "wrong joshers" were actively rooting against Allen and wouldn't let go of their pre-draft guesses is overblown. How it got to be taken as gospel I don't know. Probably something about our general inferiority complex as a fan base. 

 

During that offseason I had times where I wanted the Bills to draft each of the top 4 prospects (I didn't want Lamar and I thought Rudolph would turn into what he has). By the time the draft rolled around I was in "play it safe" mode and wanted Rosen at that spot. I got over it very quickly because I'm a Bills fan and happily admitted my error in short order. I think this experience is pretty typical from what I've experienced on this board. 

 

I was all in on Mayfield until he went #1 and then I just didn't really care who they picked. I trusted the judgement of the FO. I wasn't on the Lamar train, though. I wanted a pocket passer. I'm a fan of the team and once a player puts on that uniform, I'm a supporter. You're right that people live & die w/ their pre-draft picks and Bills fans (and Western New Yorkers in general) DO have an inferiority complex. We're all in the Shadows of the big markets/big cities.

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Glad you were not trolling.  I could care less about his attitude or "cockiness".

It just seems to me he is not an NFL QB and he has kind of proven that on his last 3 teams.

Maybe someone else will give him another chance and if so we will see how that goes.

I can see your point in the sense that he never really displayed anything to instill hope as a franchise QB. Mostly all rookie QB prospects are going to struggle, even the greats. But what are you showing us as you take your lumps? Are you leaping 8 yds over LB's for a 1st down? (Minn) Are you throwing TD bombs while buried under a pile of defenders? (Jax) Are you rushing for 100 yards making defenders look helpless to stop you? (Mia). Displays like that inspire coaches and players to build around and play hard for you. Rosen never showed Arizona or Miami that IT factor that ensures a team made the right choice. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Yeah, no need to shed a tear for Wrong Josh.  He's done far better than most people whose dreams were crushed.

No one needs to feel sorry for Josh Rosen. I saw every snap he played at UCLA as a lifelong season ticket holder. The red flags were there. Mora had to misdirect them all the time during news conferences. The kids family is rich as sin. He'll play tennis or go into politics or start a business. The problem with JR during his entire time as a Bruin was whether he really enjoyed or was passionate about football. And I think this factored in his ability to work his way into a NFL QB1 position. His journey and us selecting JA should forever be a testament to McB's ability and vision.

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:24 PM, Logic said:

I've said this before on this forum, but...

The split second between the words "Josh" and "Allen" coming out of Roger Goodell's mouth on draft day felt like an eternity. I so badly wanted the pick to be Rosen in that moment (I preferred Mayfield and Darnold, but both were off the board), and I was initially so despondent that the Bills had chosen Allen.

I was an idiot. I mean, I'm STILL an idiot, but....boy oh boy, was I wrong. It is unquestionably the happiest I've ever been to be so wrong in my life.

As for Rosen now? Well...I'm just not sure he's going to get many more opportunities. After you've flamed out with three teams in so short a time after being a 1st round draft picks...not sure how many teams are going to keep taking swings at you.

What's good, gents? What's good? 

 

In retrospect, JA17 would be the #1 overall pick in the 2018 draft 100 times out of 100, FACT!

Edited August 18, 2021 by Cotton Fitzsimmons

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Which makes your wonder how much the team that drafts you factors into how good you'll be as a pro. 

Absolutely. I remember the chants of "Suck for Darnold" and we were supposed to have missed out because he didn't come out of the draft the year after Rex left.

 

 

And then he got taken four picks ahead of Allen by the Jets. The Jets and Adam Gase in particular are a case study of what not to do 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

In retrospect, JA17 would be the #1 overall pick in the 2018 draft 100 times out of 100, FACT

Yeah think so too. I think more would agree with that than not. Some may say Lamar Jackson, but I think more would go Allen that Lamar 

[FilthyBeast]

I believe their reports pre -draft that Rosen turned off a lot of GM's with his attitude/personality.

 

If true it's not shocking that he's on the verge of being out of the league after just 3 NFL seasons or hoping to land a spot on a practice squad.

 

Beane has not been perfect but thank god he didn't draft Rosen or Darnold (if he would have been available).

[HappyDays]

I was one of the many Bills fans that wanted nothing to do with Allen and was dismayed when he was the pick over Rosen. My biggest takeaway is that you can't just evaluate the player; you also have to evaluate the person. All we had as fans was the tape. On tape Rosen was miles ahead of Allen. What we didn't have was all the behind the scenes knowledge about their character.

 

The Rosen/Allen result has actually changed the entire way that I think about scouting. Evaluating the player only is how you end up with busts like Isaiah Wilson or DeAndre Baker. You still need to have a requisite level of talent to make it in the NFL, character alone isn't enough. But all the talent in the world with no character is an equally losing formula. Luckily I believe we have a regime in place that understands this.

 

For all the people in this thread saying Rosen didn't get a fair chance, I think he got plenty of chances. What's happened again and again is that NFL decision makers have seen his habits in practice and the film room and decided his character isn't worth developing. That's why Rosen and Allen have taken opposite career trajectories.

[The Dean]

7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

It seems obvious you’re a bit of a Draft Guru, which begs the question; why didn’t you take into account Allen’s Wonderlick score?

 

 

Not sure if this was sarcastic. If it was, well done.

 

Seriously though, for a high 1st round pick, I doubt the Wonderlick is ever even considered. If it is, IMO it should not be. The information gathered by NFL teams on high first round picks is so far superior to the Wonderlick, the idea of even putting it into the equation seems preposterous to me. At it's best, the Wonderlick is something to use to pare down a huge potential pool, far too big to evaluate individually, into a more manageable group. That simply isn't an issue with potential high NFL draft picks. These candidates have been (or should be) thoroughly evaluated. There are meetings with their college coaches and fellow players. Even their high school coaches, teachers and peers. They are brought in to talk with coaches and coordinators. They are asked to answer questions, FOOTBALL QUESTIONS, and answer on a chalk board/white board/whatever.  That information is SO much more relevant to evaluating a player's football intelligence, attitude, etc. 

 

The generic info from a test that also has many biases attached to the results MIGHT be something you look at for lower draft picks who you haven't been able to thoroughly vet. Even then, I'd use them with a LOT of grains of salt.

[Behindenemylines]

I agree Rosen got more than his fair share of chances.  You can’t be a total d-bag with zero personality and expect to keep getting chances when your talent is mid tier.  Even high tier talent only gets so much leash being a total d-bag

 

Rosen appears by all I’ve seen to be both mid tier talent and a high tier

D-bag

 

enjoy your millions, retirement and tennis 

 

Moving on to awesome Josh and our future Lombardi’s!

 

[Doc]

He went unclaimed off of waivers.  His NFL career is likely over.

[Patrick Duffy]

22 minutes ago, The Dean said:

Seriously though, for a high 1st round pick, I doubt the Wonderlick is ever even considered. If it is, IMO it should not be

I think it is considered to some extent. Probably not much when it comes to top draft pics, but could be more for later round pics. Which would maybe depend on the circumstances how much it may determine decisions on particular player that is picked. 

 

Honestly I don't know if it does or not, but I would think it at least plays some type of factor. I mean if not then what's the point of them even taking the test then?

[The Dean]

6 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I think it is considered to some extent. Probably not much when it comes to top draft pics, but could be more for later round pics. Which would maybe depend on the circumstances how much it may determine decisions on particular player that is picked. 

 

Honestly I don't know if it does or not, but I would think it at least plays some type of factor. I mean if not then what's the point of them even taking the test then?

 

 

Because it's cheap and for people not trained in research methodology and analysis, it is SOME information. Like you say, they may use it for lower round draft picks since they may have very little information about them. In their minds, this adds something. Similar to how some companies use it to pare down the pool of possibilities. 

[Putin]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:54 PM, billsbackto81 said:

No argument there. But Buffalo did everything possible to develop and provide him with players, scheme and an environment to thrive. What did the Jets and Cards do?

Cards did the right thing by not wasting time and getting rid of his a$$ , the Jets on the other hand well they’re the Jets .. 

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

No one needs to feel sorry for Josh Rosen. I saw every snap he played at UCLA as a lifelong season ticket holder. The red flags were there. Mora had to misdirect them all the time during news conferences. The kids family is rich as sin. He'll play tennis or go into politics or start a business. The problem with JR during his entire time as a Bruin was whether he really enjoyed or was passionate about football. And I think this factored in his ability to work his way into a NFL QB1 position. His journey and us selecting JA should forever be a testament to McB's ability and vision.

I think you're on to it right here. Rosen was never enough of a "jock" or "gym rat" to overcome adversity at the pro level. He's unlikely to connect with and inspire a diverse locker room of gladiators, many of whom are annually sacrificing their bodies for chances at brief careers. 

 

To the contrary, I commend McBeane for their holistic appreciation of Josh Allen.

[Patrick Duffy]

19 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Because it's cheap and for people not trained in research methodology and analysis, it is SOME information. Like you say, they may use it for lower round draft picks since they may have very little information about them. In their minds, this adds something. Similar to how some companies use it to pare down the pool of possibilities. 

I wouldn't say any team only has very little info about players in lower rounds. Lower round players that are on a teams board I'm sure that FO knows everything about that player that is needed regardless of the lower position.

 

I meant that the test may not play as much a factor for high 1st round pics as it would lower round pics. I wasn't assuming that due to any amount of info a team has on a lower pick. Was implying that imo the high 1st round pics that are like top 10 picks or whatnot, teams picking in that 1-10 part of 1st round pretty much have their mind made up regardless for the most part, in which case that test likely won't come into play much if any at all.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[Patrick Duffy]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:54 PM, billsbackto81 said:

No argument there. But Buffalo did everything possible to develop and provide him with players, scheme and an environment to thrive. What did the Jets and Cards do?

Yes in his 2nd year they did. But thankfully Bills have/had the right ppl in place to develop Allen the best way possible, even though he had crap surrounding him. He still made many great throws that would have changed the outcome of some games only to be dropped way too many times. But even though he had to be thrown in quicker than they wanted, this staff is so good that Josh still was developed quite well.

[Arkady Renko]

Sign Josh Rosen.  Sign Chad Kelly.  Trade Mitch and Davis Wood for a 2022 First Rounder!!!

[Mike in Horseheads]

Wheres 26 Copy and Paste ?

[The Dean]

11 hours ago, Arkady Renko said:

Sign Josh Rosen.  Sign Chad Kelly.  Trade Mitch and Davis Wood for a 2022 First Rounder!!!

 

 

I bet they can get a very high pick for Davis Wood!