Chiefs = Paper Tigers

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

11 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

The 2nd best team in the AFC until proven otherwise. 

 

The Titans are a team on the rise and I'll go out on a limb that it will be them and the Bills fighting for the number 1 spot. The NFL is an unpredictable beast and I just don't see the Chiefs as front runner anymore. They were exposed badly by Tampa. Not only that, they have to break in 2 new tackles and you better believe that Frazier w/ an upgraded D-Line is going to send the house. After 2 Superbowl appearances, the odds are stacked against them to make a 3rd one. In fact, only 3 teams have made 3 or more in a row (Bills, Patriots, Dolphins.) 

 

1) Bills

2) Titans

3) Chiefs

4) Browns

5) Ravens

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

The Titans are a team on the rise and I'll go out on a limb that it will be them and the Bills fighting for the number 1 spot. The NFL is an unpredictable beast and I just don't see the Chiefs as front runner anymore. They were exposed badly by Tampa. Not only that, they have to break in 2 new tackles and you better believe that Frazier w/ an upgraded D-Line is going to send the house. After 2 Superbowl appearances, the odds are stacked against them to make a 3rd one. In fact, only 3 teams have made 3 or more in a row (Bills, Patriots, Dolphins.) 

 

1) Bills

2) Titans

3) Chiefs

4) Browns

5) Ravens

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, Chiefs were badly exposed in the SB, but even with an upgraded D-line, it’s up to McD/Frazier/Daboll to have the team ready to play. Above all else, I blame coaching for the 2 KC debacles last year.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

Yes, Chiefs were badly exposed in the SB, but even with an upgraded D-line, it’s up to McD/Frazier/Daboll to have the team ready to play. Above all else, I blame coaching for the 2 KC debacles last year.

 

The first one is on the coaches for sure. A team like KC isn't supposed to run allover people like that and adjustments were badly needed, they held on for a little while, but the Chiefs had full control from the beginning. The AFC championship (to me) was a combination of borderline illegal defensive contact by the KC DBs, an injured Diggs & Beasley, and poor offensive line play. Those are the Big 3 for me. Coaches coach, but players must execute. The Bills were the away team and they had too much going against them. Fortunately, they are becoming a seasoned playoff team and the next time around the spotlight won't be as bright.

[CommonCents]

10 minutes ago, Rico said:

Yes, Chiefs were badly exposed in the SB, but even with an upgraded D-line, it’s up to McD/Frazier/Daboll to have the team ready to play. Above all else, I blame coaching for the 2 KC debacles last year.

Coaching? Play calling? They got manhandled all over the field. Not sure what could have changed. If the WR were healthy maybe it would have been closer. 

[Rico]

1 minute ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

The first one is on the coaches for sure. A team like KC isn't supposed to run allover people like that and adjustments were badly needed, they held on for a little while, but the Chiefs had full control from the beginning. The AFC championship (to me) was a combination of borderline illegal defensive contact by the KC DBs, an injured Diggs & Beasley, and poor offensive line play. Those are the Big 3 for me. Coaches coach, but players must execute. The Bills were the away team and they had too much going against them. Fortunately, they are becoming a seasoned playoff team and the next time around the spotlight won't be as bright.

If they play the Chiefs in the playoffs again, they should hire Tony Siragusa for a week and have him talk to the team about Rich Gannon.

[Dr.Sack]

The fact Mahomes has only been defeated 1 time by double digits in his NFL career (playoffs or regular season), is astonishing. The dude simply keeps his teams in games. I’ll believe the term ‘paper tigers’ if and when the Chiefs start getting blown out. 

[cle23]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

Yes, Chiefs were badly exposed in the SB, but even with an upgraded D-line, it’s up to McD/Frazier/Daboll to have the team ready to play. Above all else, I blame coaching for the 2 KC debacles last year.

 

Exposed? If you truly believe that,  then did the Chiefs "expose" Buffalo in the AFC championship game?

 

 I don't understand how one team getting beat is exposing them and another team getting beat is just nothing.

Edited August 18, 2021 by cle23

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

This is correct.  KC was awful VS the spread last year....got out to big leads and then took foot off gas....other times when could have put the hammer down, but couldn't convert 3rd and short etc.  SEE MORE BELOW.  

 

 

Vulnerable isn't a bad way to put it in the sense that KC was absolutely awful on 3rd and short and goal to go with the bad O line.  KC was also not a good red zone team.  When KC should have and could have put the death blow on teams...they simply couldn't do it most times.  Allowed teams to hang in and get late scores or prevented KC from getting that last nail into the coffin.  SEE MORE BELOW

 

 

It worked.

 

 

I can't deny this stat as it is a fact, but I would say that the Raiders win didn't have anything to do with 50% pressures on MAhomes...KC put up 32 points in that loss.  Las Vegas had 40.  The Raiders have been a bad matchup for KC for a while....as they throw a TON of passes to the TE and backs out of backfield....KC's weakest aspects of defense.  

 

 

in 2018, KC had a starting O line of:

 

LT Eric Fisher

LG Cameron Erving

C Mitch Morse (pre concussions)

RG Andrew Wylie and later Laurant Duvernay-Tardiff

RT Mitch Schwartz

 

That was the best line Mahomes had been with since his time starting in KC.  That team was good in the red zone, and decent and short yardage conversions.

 

That offseason, KC lost Morse to the Bills.  Also in 2019 Eric Fisher missed 8 games due to injury.  KC also had to rotate in guys at LG for injury, and also, Mahomes got injured and missed a few games, as well as playing hurt.  KC's offensive metrics dropped across the board...especially games where Fisher was out.

KC got healthy toward the end of that season, including having Fisher healthy at the end.  KC put up 51, 35, and 31 points in the playoffs.

 

In 2020, KC lost Laurant Duvarnay Tardiff to covid opt out.  A couple games in they lost the starting LG, a game or 2 later, they lost RT Mitch Schwartz for the season.  KC's red zone and short yardage metrics were HORRIBLE as a result.  ...and then KC lost Fisher at the end of the AFCCG... resulting in KC rolling with only C Ausin Reiter the Center and worst player on the line when healthy....as the lone starter remaining.  2nd and 3rd stringers started at the G and OT spot in the SB.  ...against a team that has a great 4 man rush.  We lost..I'm not whining about it....TB won.  My hats off to them.  They are the champions.

 

.....KC is the Vegas favorite for a reason.

 

Let me address what KC lost in the offseason first...because it's been brought up that KC lost 8 starters.

 

Guys KC lost who started.

C Austin Reiter.  Remains unsigned as of this post.  He sucks.  

DE Tanoh Kpasagnon.  Very much a JAG...no impact player.  his production (next to nothing) is easily replacable for less money

WR Sammy Watkins. .......  do I need to make an explanation for him?

LT Eric Fisher  .....  Injured

RT Mitch Schwartz.  Injured and remains unsiged and has infact been hanging around KC and helping coach up the new line guys....rumored to be retired but not officially.

LB  Damien Wilson  ....another JAG whose replacement is better and cheaper

CB Bashaud Breeland .....this is the one that matters most....good CB that fit will in the system.

S  Juan Thornhill.....recovering from injury....not sure he'll be the same player, he hasn't been with the 1s much.

 

If you are losing 8 starters...those are the 8 you don't mind losing (except Breeland)  

 

The important part of this is O line.

 

Traded for LT Orlando Brown

Signed LG Joe Thuney

drafted C Creed Humphrey

drafted RG Trey Smith

drafted RT Lucas Niang
 

This will 99.9 percent be by far the best line Mahomes has had since he joined the Chiefs.  The early returns are good.  If KC is a threat to run on short yardage and in goal to go situations, that means the full playbook is available and defenses can't drop 7-8 and rush 3-4 all the time.  

 

On defense, Willie Gay is looking like the speedy, coverage LB we've been missing, and rookie LB Bolton reports are good on so far too (very early on that yet though)

 

Add to that, KC signed Jarron Reed, and Last year rookie impact UDFA Tershawn Wharton has given KC the depth to move Chris Jones to DE.....that has looked really good so far too.  

 

It is not lost on me that I am a biased KC fan. so take this all with a small grain of salt...but I'm not at all beyond being critical of my own team.  

 

Vegas has KC as front runners for a reason...they know those close games last year were not KC struggling to win...but struggling to put teams away late and letting them back in.  They know the line being better will improve the metrics that kept KC from closing out teams.......

 

I am predicting KC gets the 1 seed, is in the SB again, and will win it all.  (bla bla bla bias...but Vegas sees it as I do)  

 

Buffalo is the main threat.  CLEVELAND is the actual paper tiger.  Bunch of close 1 score games.   they rely on turnovers and game management to win..that leaves room for lucky bounces etc.

Voltz, I’ve written this before to you, but I appreciate you are a Chiefs fan, don’t hide it like some real trolls (Pats or Jests fans pretending to be Bills fans when they are just acting passive aggressive), and you support you’re team while I don’t see what you’ve written is derogatory towards the Bills.

 

You make some excellent points and for the life of me, can’t understand someone writing you guys are paper tigers.  You get to the AFCCG against the Pats, you win the SB over the 49ers, lose to the Bucs, but you lost both tackles.  Now, I wasn’t happy at all the refs kept their scarfs in their pockets against us, and miraculously the refs figured out a penalty in the SB.  It wasn’t consistent and you’re team got away with murder in our game. With that said, you were the better team, and we probably would’ve lost anyway.  Our entire receiving core was injured, and not slightly, but seriously injured.  We also had one of the smallest defensive lines in football last year and hopefully Beane has rectified that issue.

 

I don’t know at this point whether the Browns are a serious threat to us or not as they are very balanced in running and passing.  Mayfield is not even in the ballpark of Mahomes or Allen.  I understand you’re prediction of you’re team winning the SB, as we feel the same about our Bills.

 

I do think the AFCCG will be a repeat of us and you’re team.  Until we do it, I’m not going to predict we beat you, but I think we have a sound chance at it.  The question mark for me about you’re team is you have three linemen who are rookies (I don’t care what they did in college, that is a variable no one knows what they will look like this year).

 

It should be a fun year, and as I’ve mentioned many times, I can see Mahomes/Allen becoming a Brady/Manning for the next decade.  Good luck when you’re not playing us.

Edited August 18, 2021 by machine gun kelly

[Nelius]

Mahomes, of course, but Tyreek Hill is a cheat code that remains underrated. Can't be dismissed at this point. Jerk human being maybe, but incredible WR, quickly becoming an all-time deep threat/dynamic player at this point. And then Kelce. Lol no.

[Zerovoltz]

46 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Voltz, I’ve written this before to you, but I appreciate you are a Chiefs fan, don’t hide it like some real trolls (Pats or Jests fans pretending to be Bills fans when they are just acting passive aggressive), and you support you’re team while I don’t see what you’ve written is derogatory towards the Bills.

 

You make some excellent points and for the life of me, can’t understand someone writing you guys are paper tigers.  You get to the AFCCG against the Pats, you win the SB over the 49ers, lose to the Bucs, but you lost both tackles.  Now, I wasn’t happy at all the refs kept their scarfs in their pockets against us, and miraculously the refs figured out a penalty in the SB.  It wasn’t consistent and you’re team got away with murder in our game. With that said, you were the better team, and we probably would’ve lost anyway.  Our entire receiving core was injured, and not slightly, but seriously injured.  We also had one of the smallest defensive lines in football last year and hopefully Beane has rectified that issue.

 

I don’t know at this point whether the Browns are a serious threat to us or not as they are very balanced in running and passing.  Mayfield is not even in the ballpark of Mahomes or Allen.  I understand you’re prediction of you’re team winning the SB, as we feel the same about our Bills.

 

I do think the AFCCG will be a repeat of us and you’re team.  Until we do it, I’m not going to predict we beat you, but I think we have a sound chance at it.  The question mark for me about you’re team is you have three linemen who are rookies (I don’t care what they did in college, that is a variable no one knows what they will look like this year).

 

It should be a fun year, and as I’ve mentioned many times, I can see Mahomes/Allen becoming a Brady/Manning for the next decade.  Good luck when you’re not playing us.

 

1st....I hope to see you guys again in the AFCCG.  I feel very strongly that the Bills are legit contenders and as long as Allen is the QB....are going to be for a while.  I do think the Bills got better this offseason.  

 

Ok...so about the 3 rookies....this is both a legit concern and also for Chiefs fans...represent a real major change and likely improvement.

 

So about the line....on top of almost certainly starting 3 rookies, the other 2 guys are both new to the team as well.  5 new starters.  It is a tall task to ask any 5 new guys on a line to play together with cohesion, let along have 3 rookies.  I'd love to sit here and say that they'll be all on the same page, week 1.  That's not realistic.  I suspect KC's line is going to need at least 8 games to gel....and since we are workign with rookies....it may take all year.  

 

The upside / potential of this group is the exciting part and not so much what they will look like in week 1.  Too early to say so with much certainty, but the group does look good so far...(again, looking good at camp and VS SF 2nd string is all we have to go on so far)  Let's say they do gel are good....  Thuney is highly paid but on the team long term, the 3 rookies are here the next 4 seasons on the cheap.....that leaves signing Orlando Brown to a long term deal, wich is expected assuming he plays well enough.  Best case...that group is young and will be together 4 years.  That's the exciting part.  I think KC can absorb future losses of RB's, WR's, TE's etc...as long as you have Mahomes and a super line....they'll figure out the other parts as time passes.  This year I'll be really looking at how the line shows..and hopefully gets some chemistry....it's the key to how far we can go.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

 

I can't deny this stat as it is a fact, but I would say that the Raiders win didn't have anything to do with 50% pressures on MAhomes...KC put up 32 points in that loss.  Las Vegas had 40.  The Raiders have been a bad matchup for KC for a while....as they throw a TON of passes to the TE and backs out of backfield....KC's weakest aspects of defense.  

 

 

I disagree it didn't have anything to do with it. I watched that game and the Raiders kept the Chiefs O off balance most of the day. Yes you ended up with 32 but one of those scores was garbage time. The Raiders ran it well, especially the change of pace pack whose name I forget, limited the Chiefs possessions and then when KC got on the field they pressured Mahomes and he was playing slightly in desperation mode after the first quarter. They went 14-3 up right at the beginning of the 2nd Quarter and only scored 10 points between then and the final couple of minutes of the game when they got the garbage time points. I get it, it wasn't just pass rush, but the pass rush was a critical element in Vegas winning. 

[Zerovoltz]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree it didn't have anything to do with it. I watched that game and the Raiders kept the Chiefs O off balance most of the day. Yes you ended up with 32 but one of those scores was garbage time. The Raiders ran it well, especially the change of pace pack whose name I forget, limited the Chiefs possessions and then when KC got on the field they pressured Mahomes and he was playing slightly in desperation mode after the first quarter. They went 14-3 up right at the beginning of the 2nd Quarter and only scored 10 points between then and the final couple of minutes of the game when they got the garbage time points. I get it, it wasn't just pass rush, but the pass rush was a critical element in Vegas winning. 

 

Odd thing about KC/Raiders....the Radiers have had a BAD pass rush for the past few years but for some reason, give KC fits in this department....makes no sense.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Zerovoltz said:

 

Odd thing about KC/Raiders....the Radiers have had a BAD pass rush for the past few years but for some reason, give KC fits in this department....makes no sense.

 

Similar to KC and the Bills. The Bills were very strong in pass protection last year..... except both games against the Chiefs. 

[machine gun kelly]

Agreed GB.  We had a poor run blocking line, but excellent pass pro, except arrgghh against the Chiefs.

 

Im hopeful we’ve tooled with the scheme enough to change that in 2021.

[snowbelt_subie]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

The Titans are a team on the rise and I'll go out on a limb that it will be them and the Bills fighting for the number 1 spot. The NFL is an unpredictable beast and I just don't see the Chiefs as front runner anymore. They were exposed badly by Tampa. Not only that, they have to break in 2 new tackles and you better believe that Frazier w/ an upgraded D-Line is going to send the house. After 2 Superbowl appearances, the odds are stacked against them to make a 3rd one. In fact, only 3 teams have made 3 or more in a row (Bills, Patriots, Dolphins.) 

 

1) Bills

2) Titans

3) Chiefs

4) Browns

5) Ravens

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

idk you can put the chiefs below 2 teams but it seems more Hope than anything.   they are the front runner until proven otherwise they lost one game.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Agreed GB.  We had a poor run blocking line, but excellent pass pro, except arrgghh against the Chiefs.

 

Im hopeful we’ve tooled with the scheme enough to change that in 2021.

 

When you get that and it is one team that suddenly causes what is normally a strength of yours a problem it generally means that the coaching on that one team has spotted something that it feels with its particular collection of players it can exploit. I kept saying I'd try and get back to those two games over the summer and see if I could work it out on the film but I haven't to this point. I hope Daboll and Bobby Johnson have self-scouted those two games to death though. I don't know if our style of defense is ever going to be a perfect match up against Mahomes and I feel that to get closer to them in head to head play in 2021 we will need to play better offensively. Part of that is our receivers being more physical with their DBs but the biggest part is our line holding up better for Josh. 

[machine gun kelly]

Howard and Jeremy with Sal (WGR if you don’t listen on Audacy GB) have been pointing out the answer lies in outscoring the Chiefs.  The Raiders played them well in running well and even though normally a bad pass rush team, seems to do well against the Chiefs.

[Beast]

I want to beat the Chiefs as much as anyone but attempting to rationalize that they aren't a great team is an idiotic task.

[Sharky7337]

Umm they kicked the crap out of us, so what does that make us then? 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Howard and Jeremy with Sal (WGR if you don’t listen on Audacy GB) have been pointing out the answer lies in outscoring the Chiefs.  The Raiders played them well in running well and even though normally a bad pass rush team, seems to do well against the Chiefs.

 

Yea. Our defense can improve against them, sure. But we are not going to beat the Chiefs 24-21. We are going to have to score 30+ to win. I start from the premise they will get around 8 drives a game against us. They had 8 in the regular season game (excluding kneel downs) and 7 in the ACFCG (excluding kneel downs). I reckon we have to try and create 3 scoreless drives - in October we managed that (2 punts and a fumble), in the AFCCG we only managed 1 (their first drive). That means their maximum score (excluding 2 pointers) is 35. That has to be our target offensively. We need to aim to score 32-35 points against them. Then if we can play decent red zone defense which we did in the regular season and hold them to some FGs we are in business. But until our offense can score 30+ on them it is gonna be tough for us to beat them.