Chiefs = Paper Tigers

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Right, but there are other things to consider than just money for a contract. Like the fact they gave up a first round pick for Brown, and need to figure that out. Do they throw a pick away and not sign him or sign him to what is sure to be a rather expensive contract, most LT cost money. Right now that looks like a damned if you do damned if you don't decision. If they do not sign Brown that will be two years in a row they basically wasted their first round pick. Need to talk more about how this is effecting the team now and will for years to come.

 

And Brown started slow, big adjustment from the Baltimore O to the KC owe, but he has definitely been coming round. The only true "weak spot" on the line is right tackle IMO, where I think Niang has struggled a fair amount. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

His "improvements" were barely decimal points.

He’s leading the nfl in air yards per pass attempt by a large margin….waaaaay up from last year, where he was outside of the top 20.  
 
His passes are, on average, being thrown almost 20% further this year compared to last (and the rest of his career).  Yet his completion% is slightly higher.  
 

He’s throwing the ball better this year.  It’s obvious to most.  He’s not an upper echelon passer, but he’s improving from last year….despite what you think
 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

48 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s leading the nfl in air yards per pass attempt by a large margin….waaaaay up from last year, where he was outside of the top 20.  
 
His passes are, on average, being thrown almost 20% further this year compared to last (and the rest of his career).  Yet his completion% is slightly higher.  
 

He’s throwing the ball better this year.  It’s obvious to most.  He’s not an upper echelon passer, but he’s improving from last year….despite what you think
 

 

Agree... for sure looks like his passing has improved, which is what most were worried about as far as defending him. If he keeps it up and stays the course it definitely will be harder to defend against him than it already is.

 

I trust McD/Frazier will continue to have a solid plan for him though. So far Bills D has done pretty good each time they've played, but may have to tweak it a little if his passing game continues improving

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

He’s leading the nfl in air yards per pass attempt by a large margin….waaaaay up from last year, where he was outside of the top 20.  
 
His passes are, on average, being thrown almost 20% further this year compared to last (and the rest of his career).  Yet his completion% is slightly higher.  
 

He’s throwing the ball better this year.  It’s obvious to most.  He’s not an upper echelon passer, but he’s improving from last year….despite what you think
 

 

 

The original post I responded to said Lamar has figured out the passing game. Yeah I guess if throwing the ball 2 yards further per completion over last year means he has figured out the passing game then I guess he did.  I don't think that means he figured out the passing game though.  

 

I would give more credit that his completion% being slightly higher with his volume of passing being higher as more of an improvement over throwing 2 yards deeper than last year on avg.

 

Lamars TD% is 18th best in the league while his INT % is 12th worst in the league.  He is also the third highest sacked QB in the league.  Those things don't normally indicate someone who has "figured out the passing game."

 

Maybe he has improved in some areas but I would also say he regressed in others.  In either case I don't think any of that means "he has figured out the passing game."

 

The way to defend Lamar this year is the same as last year.  Keep him in the pocket and take away Andrews.  Sure he will hit some balls to Brown but if that is done all game then I don't think Baltimore wins.

 

This is a Mahomes thread though so I am going to end this here.  I will certainly read your response if you care to make one, but I won't be responding to it as I don't really want to totally derail the thread.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Scott7975

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I don’t agree that the Chiefs oline is that bad. They’re being made to look worse because Mahomes won’t step up in the pocket and keeps drifting. They’re decent in pass pro, they’re just being made to block for too long and at bad angles because he’s trying to buy more time than is necessary.

 

I'll have to watch more, but I kind of thought the opposite - the KC oline isn't preserving the width and the depth of the pocket so he doesn't trust he has anyplace to step up.

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The only one not on a rookie deal is Thuney......

 

True but a little deceptive....Orlando Brown was traded because this is the last year of his rookie deal, and he made it clear he wanted the big bucks of a LT

So he's a 1 year rental for them unless they shell out the Big Clams.

[HappyDays]

Chris Simms eviscerated Mahomes' performance against Tennessee on his podcast today.

 

 

The relevant part starts about 6 minutes in.

 

Anyone blaming the blocking or play calling for his poor performance, give this a listen. I wish I had video to see what Simms is describing, but be basically says Mahomes is hanging his OTs out to dry, he's watching the pass rush instead of looking downfield, he's missing wide open reads, he isn't trusting his protection even when it's good. Mahomes has to pull himself out of this slump or their season is toast.

[Zerovoltz]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms eviscerated Mahomes' performance against Tennessee on his podcast today.

 

 

The relevant part starts about 6 minutes in.

 

Anyone blaming the blocking or play calling for his poor performance, give this a listen. I wish I had video to see what Simms is describing, but be basically says Mahomes is hanging his OTs out to dry, he's watching the pass rush instead of looking downfield, he's missing wide open reads, he isn't trusting his protection even when it's good. Mahomes has to pull himself out of this slump or their season is toast.

I heard this earlier...and I agree....Mahomes is slumping...he keeps looking for the homerun ball....and KC also keeps calling too many long routes....the combo is killing the team.  

 

I heard Mahomes in an interview with Rich Eisen today.....Mahoems was asked what was wrong....and he said they aren't executing, and turning the ball over too much....

 

I didn't like the answer....because it indicates that they don't think the opposing D is actually doing anything to earn the turnovers....and that they arogantly believe they can still just run deep routes into defenses that are playing to stop exactly that.  

 

Frankly, they need to have some humility about where they are now and make some changes.  I'm not sure they are ready to do that now..and they are out of time.

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

True but a little deceptive....Orlando Brown was traded because this is the last year of his rookie deal, and he made it clear he wanted the big bucks of a LT

So he's a 1 year rental for them unless they shell out the Big Clams.

 

I mean I don't think it is deceptive. This year their oline is cheap. They are only paying 1 guy. It is about to get a lot less cheap because they will need to pay Brown top 5 or 6 left tackle money. That is only the same as any other expiring contract. I know they traded what amounted to a 2nd round pick for him in value terms, so it isn't that there hasn't been any investment at all but purely in terms of contract this is one of the cheapest lines in the league.

[GunnerBill]

22 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Right, but there are other things to consider than just money for a contract. Like the fact they gave up a first round pick for Brown, and need to figure that out. Do they throw a pick away and not sign him or sign him to what is sure to be a rather expensive contract, most LT cost money. Right now that looks like a damned if you do damned if you don't decision. If they do not sign Brown that will be two years in a row they basically wasted their first round pick. Need to talk more about how this is effecting the team now and will for years to come.

 

The true cost of the Brown trade was a high 2nd actually. They traded a first and some other picks away but got a 2nd back. When you work it all out Brown's value in the trade equates to about the 46th pick of the draft. If Brown continues to get comfortable in the offense then I don't see that as anything other than a win. Yes it costs money to keep him but having a good left tackle costs money. That is the modern NFL. Still infinitely better to have one than not have one. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The true cost of the Brown trade was a high 2nd actually. They traded a first and some other picks away but got a 2nd back. When you work it all out Brown's value in the trade equates to about the 46th pick of the draft. If Brown continues to get comfortable in the offense then I don't see that as anything other than a win. Yes it costs money to keep him but having a good left tackle costs money. That is the modern NFL. Still infinitely better to have one than not have one. 

You can see it that way, it’s a valid opinion. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by atlbillsfan1975

[stevewin]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms eviscerated Mahomes' performance against Tennessee on his podcast today.

 

 

The relevant part starts about 6 minutes in.

 

Anyone blaming the blocking or play calling for his poor performance, give this a listen. I wish I had video to see what Simms is describing, but be basically says Mahomes is hanging his OTs out to dry, he's watching the pass rush instead of looking downfield, he's missing wide open reads, he isn't trusting his protection even when it's good. Mahomes has to pull himself out of this slump or their season is toast.

Here is the video

 

[HappyDays]

13 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

I heard this earlier...and I agree....Mahomes is slumping...he keeps looking for the homerun ball....and KC also keeps calling too many long routes....the combo is killing the team.  

 

Apparently even when the home run ball is there he's missing it though. It isn't just that he's forcing passes. His bigger problem is he is not trusting the reads and the offensive line. It's all in his head right now. I wonder if the Super Bowl got under his skin.

[Rico]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Apparently even when the home run ball is there he's missing it though. It isn't just that he's forcing passes. His bigger problem is he is not trusting the reads and the offensive line. It's all in his head right now. I wonder if the Super Bowl got under his skin.

Yes, he got humiliated and was exposed in the SB. If he had great football character (like say, Josh Allen), he would’ve responded to adversity and become a better player. Unfortunately, he is lacking.  

[GunnerBill]

49 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Apparently even when the home run ball is there he's missing it though. It isn't just that he's forcing passes. His bigger problem is he is not trusting the reads and the offensive line. It's all in his head right now. I wonder if the Super Bowl got under his skin.

 

It is a thing with Quarterbacks. When they stop trusting their line it screws them up some. We saw it here in the first couple of weeks of the season when Josh lost faith early in the Steelers game and was dropping his eyes and looking at the rush for the next game and a half. Mahomes is getting better protection than he is making it look. He just is not playing well right now. Do I think he is forcing it (and I don't just mean forcing passes I mean kinda playing tense and not playing loose) because he knows the defense is a liability? Yes. But that is context. It isn't an excuse. He is playing poorly. I said it about Josh weeks 1 and 2 and I say it about Mahomes here. Bottom line, he has to play better. I am sure he will. These are not problems that can't be corrected. He needs a head clear, get right moment, and he is too good not to figure it out. But he is in a slump at the moment, no question.

[YoloinOhio]

Burn, Chefs, burn.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Burn, Chefs, burn.

I guess the fans should be satisfied and the team can just mail it in from here then. 🤷‍♂️

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Burn, Chefs, burn.

Wow!!!  Ain’t THAT some s***!!! 

 

I hope nothing like that happens while Josh Allen in our QB.  Players lashing out @ fans is not a good look.  I’d be shocked if the chiefs extended Mathieu now

 

edit:  I’m rewatching the bills@chiefs from a couple weeks ago…….just thought I’d share what an animal Jerry Hughes was that night.  He recorded a half sack and 1 assisted tackle, but my man got after it.  He was exploding off the line with the best in the league.  When Jerry is on, he’s a terror. His pass rush altered the chiefs passing offense on several occasions. You couldn’t tell by the box score, but he was a game changer.  

Edited October 30, 2021 by NewEra

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/27/2021 at 8:39 PM, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms eviscerated Mahomes' performance against Tennessee on his podcast today.

 

 

The relevant part starts about 6 minutes in.

 

Anyone blaming the blocking or play calling for his poor performance, give this a listen. I wish I had video to see what Simms is describing, but be basically says Mahomes is hanging his OTs out to dry, he's watching the pass rush instead of looking downfield, he's missing wide open reads, he isn't trusting his protection even when it's good. Mahomes has to pull himself out of this slump or their season is toast.

 

So here's the video version off Youtube, including the visuals on the film.

 

 

Here's my comment on Chris Simms comments:

 

1) is he wrong that Mahomes is taking deep drops instead of stepping up in the pocket, and that the deep drops make it harder on his OTs to block?

No, of course he's not wrong.

 

But here's the thing- and maybe @Zerovoltz or someone will correct me if I'm wrong - it seems to me that Mahomes has always taken deep drops, 10 or 15 yd drops, and actually that was an aspect of his game that was PRAISED and to which much of his success at deep throws to Hill was attributed.

 

IMHO, the difference is that Eric Fisher adapted to the drops Mahomes likes to take and blocked accordingly, while Orlando Brown Jr is taking the correct blocking angle as though his QB will step up (which I believe is Lamar Jackson's pattern - he doesn't take those deep drops, if he needs to run, he wants to be positioned to squirt out and make yards).  How's Fisher doing, BTW, coming back from that Achilles?  Started every game for the Colts so far? 

 

2) Not taking "gimmee" throws to open WR

 

Andy Reid said it last season: "Everyone needs a Guy, and Kelce is Pat's Guy".  Basically 30% of Mahomes passing yards were from Kelce last season, with 27% to Hill.  Kelce has been Mahomes security blanket, the guy he looks to when they need a 3rd down.  And teams have clued to that, and they're working harder to bracket Kelce and take him away.  He's still getting open...but by the time he's open, Mahomes is on the move and off platform and the throw is off.

 

And while Mahomes does look for Hill, he has always had some of the same tendency as Josh in that he doesn't want to take the checkdown.  I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Mahomes style of play has always been to extend, extend, and wait for a guy to get open downfield (or to wait for Kelce)

 

3) About that off-platform thing - Simms implied that he may have some information that something is physically wrong with Mahomes foot.  But there again - in the past, Mahomes could do all that off-balance, off platform stuff and it worked like magic.

 

So basically, some of the same styles of play that Mahomes used successfully in previous seasons - the deep drop, the aggressive long-to-short reads, extending the play, the reliance on "his guy" Kelce, the off-platform any-angle throws - the things that in a guy who wasn't magic from his first starts in his 2nd season, would be criticized as poor QB play - are now biting him.

 

Can much of this be fixed, sure!  But it depends upon the coaches and Mahomes doing a "mind meld" about what's wrong and how to fix it.  I don't think it's play design per se, but they can't have a LT taking angles to block for a guy in the pocket while Mahomes is 15 yds back.   They can't have Hill wide open in the flats if Mahomes isn't going to turn, look, hit him.  etc etc.

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

Very lucky tonight to be playing against a banged up NYG team. 
KC looks bad, Mahomes looked like Josh 2019, and Reid can’t seem to figure out how to beat the way teams are defending his offense. You guys wanna fear KC, go ahead. Not me. 

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Very lucky tonight to be playing against a banged up NYG team. 
KC looks bad, Mahomes looked like Josh 2019, and Reid can’t seem to figure out how to beat the way teams are defending his offense. You guys wanna fear KC, go ahead. Not me. 

 

Nobody fears KC anymore.  We are on to the Pats.