Chiefs = Paper Tigers

[Greg S]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It’s rough we built our defense around beating the chiefs and they’re not gonna make the playoffs but teams like the browns/ravens/titans will be in there…bucs must be thrilled they are built well to demolish any of those teams if they can get through the nfc 

 

So far this season the Cards look like they have the best chance to beat Tampa. They have already looked impressive this year against tough teams and have done it on the road as well. Looking forward to this Thursday with the Packers and Cardinals. That should be a great game.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Greg S said:

They are going to have a tough time making the playoffs now. The Chargers and Raiders look like the two best teams in that division. Carr is playing very well this year. He was outstanding yesterday vs the Eagles. Herbert is one of the best young QB's in the game right now. The Bucs in last year's Super Bowl along with the Bills and Titans have shown everyone how to beat the Chiefs.

 

Carr was excellent yesterday. I still have a hard time trusting the Raiders though. They have utterly collapsed down the stretch the last two years. I am going to need to see them last the pace to believe it. 

[TheFunPolice]

Bengals are no joke. I loved what I saw of Burrow last year before his injury. It seemed like he threw for a gazillion yards but just kept coming up short. Now they have a stacked defense and more weapons on offense. 

 

It's not crazy to think that the Bengals could win that division, especially with Mayfield banged up and the Ravens being wildly inconsistent (needing an NFL record FG to beat DET, then blowing out the Chargers, before getting blown out at home to the Bengals).

 

Chiefs seem to rely on the home run ball, which has worked for years. But when that doesn't materialize, they just fall apart. Even their SB win was like that: nothing all game, then FINALLY they hit the long ball miracle play in the 4th quarter on (I think) 4th down. 

 

This year those plays are not happening, and their defense is horrible. 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[Royale with Cheese]

Pretty good...pretty good.

[Rico]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/25/joe-burrow-bengals-nfl-week-7-fmia-peter-king/
 

Goat of the Week

Patrick Mahomes, quarterback, Kansas City. Two more Mahomes turnovers in his own territory—man, this is getting to be an epidemic, uncharacteristically—in the second quarter in Nashville led to 10 Tennessee points and turned a 17-0 game into 27-0 by halftime. Mahomes picks in 2019: five. Mahomes picks in 2020: six. Mahomes picks in seven games this year: nine. He added a third turnover in the second half, a fumble. KC now leads the NFL with 17 turnovers through seven weeks. That is so unlike an Andy Reid team.
 

 

[ColoradoBills]

Looking at the AFCW schedule the next 4 games it's going to be CRAZY.  KC is up against the wall and how they play these

4 games is everything for their season.

 

KC:  NYG, GB, LVR, DAL     KC has a bye after the Cowboys game.

LVR:  Bye, NYG, KC, CIN

LAC:  NE, PHI, MIN, PIT     Chargers had their bye last Sunday.

DEN:  WFT, DAL, PHI, Bye

[atlbillsfan1975]

KC is capable of getting beat by anyone right now. I honestly will not be surprised to see them finish below .500. The big thing for them right now is culture. I have a hard time finding a high character leader. Do they have many?

[Governor]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Looking at the AFCW schedule the next 4 games it's going to be CRAZY.  KC is up against the wall and how they play these

4 games is everything for their season.

 

KC:  NYG, GB, LVR, DAL     KC has a bye after the Cowboys game.

LVR:  Bye, NYG, KC, CIN

LAC:  NE, PHI, MIN, PIT     Chargers had their bye last Sunday.

DEN:  WFT, DAL, PHI, Bye

Jeez. KC is done. They’re going to lose 3 out of those 4.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Governor said:

Jeez. KC is done. They’re going to lose 3 out of those 4.

 

That could happen and the Chargers could win 3 of the next 4.

[Zerovoltz]

....ugh.....

 

I'll try and address issues brought up....

 

1.  For the millionth time already...I joined this board after the trade to watch how the trade played out and to troll.  I've made no secret about that.  Over time, I have come to really enjoy the community here.  I was a Josh Allen doubter...not ANTI josh....I just didn't think he'd ever overcome the low comp%.  I posted many times I was rooting for him, he's fun to watch etc.  I am glad he's succeeded.  I really enjoy watching him play.  In the time since I have joined here...I kind of look at the Bills as my second favorite team, I met Poncho Villa at the 2018 Draft, I bought my kid a Bills jersey.  I enjoy the interaction and crap takling that is part of fandom and I also like just talking ball even if it isn't Chiefs specific.  I can understand why some here hate me, some don't....I'm not here to try and win a popularity contest....just here to participate at this point...wich I am grateful to be allowed to do here.  It's a great place to talk football and have fun.  

 

If I don't show up here, it's because I died problably...it won't ever be because my team sucks and I am hiding.  I'll show up and take my medicine when I have it coming.

 

2.  Regarding KC and my thoughts on the team.

 

a).  I admit that I have placed way too much faith in Patrick Mahomes alone.  The 2018 where he was consistantly overcoming a horrendous D, and making numerous incredible plays, led me to think Mahomes, on his own, could overcome just about anything.  He can't.  

 

b).  When building the roster, I have been very adamant that the CAP isn't really an obsticle.  I still don't think overall, the CAP is a major hurdle to roster building, but if you are going to push money forward, then you will have needed to spent it wisely.....where the money you spent is showing up on the field.  Too much of the allocations of CAP dollars KC has invested, is not tranlating into any production on the field.  I still don't think it's a bad way to go IF you get the production, but they have NOT this season at all.

 

c.)  In refference to the above....I have been overly optimisitc on some of what KC has done related to roster construction.  Even where I've been kind of right about having some doubts... I was still overly optimistic...for example....If you go back to where KC aquired Orlando Brown...I mentioned that he was more of a run blocker who might struggle some with speed rushers in pass blocking.  He's been a horrible pass blocker...worse than I could have imagined at the time.  I thought Jaran Reed would bring help to hte pass rush...he's been a complete non factor.  Street FA would be just as productive or better.  

 

d.)  Watching the KC offense, they continue to run the same plays they've ran now for 3 years.....playes that have 3 and 4 and sometimes 5 WR all run at least 10 yards upfield before doing anything.  Defenses are ready for this...they are all playing back in cover 2 or cover 3 deeper zones.  KC simply doesn't run nearly enough short routes, slants, crossers, quick outs, etc.  It's all way upfield.  KC runs right into the coverage...Mahomes can't see an open man and then runs around hoping the coverage breaks down, and it just isn't happening much.  I think it's possible Ried has either gotten stale and/or the tradgedy of his messed up kid(s) has taken away his attention and focus.  He has health issues.  I think the energy is fading and perhaps, the NFL has caught up to him and he just doesn't have it in him now to respond and change accordingly.  

 

e.) Mahomes is pressing, but also, see D.  and see C. regarding Brown.  The KC staff, players, and Mahomes himself, seem insistant on continuing to look for the home run ball...they've lived off it for the past 3 years..and teams have taken it away.  They all need to rconsider things....Its incredible that this team litterally looks befuddled by cover 2.  It's because they won't adjust.  Arrogance, pride...whatever.  they haven't evolved and everyone else has.  

 

f.)  too many guys don't seem hungry.  

 

I am sure I am missing some other things brought up.

 

I would simply follow up by saying that many of KC's issues may well remain unresolved until the offseason.  They may well struggle with all this and miss the playoffs.  As a fan I am hoping they get it turned around and make the wild card and see if they can make a run...but I won't be surprised at this point if this season comes to nothing.  Considering how it's gone and how it's going....My optimism beginning the year....seems foolish and the crow doesn't taste good.  

 

Lastly, I'd point out that Reid, Spags, etc...they've been doing this for years and have been highly successful.  in 2016, KC started 1-6.  They finished 10-6....I don't think Andy Ried suddenly became a dumbass or that Mahomes has forgotten how to play the QB position all of the sudden.  hopefully they've got another run in them and adjustments and fixes are comeing sooner rather than later.....right now it's a bunch of suck.

[HappyDays]

11 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

Watching the KC offense, they continue to run the same plays they've ran now for 3 years.....playes that have 3 and 4 and sometimes 5 WR all run at least 10 yards upfield before doing anything.  Defenses are ready for this...they are all playing back in cover 2 or cover 3 deeper zones.  KC simply doesn't run nearly enough short routes, slants, crossers, quick outs, etc.  It's all way upfield.

 

I don't know that they have the players to run those routes. Watkins was that guy last year and they made no effort to replace him. Tyreek Hill isn't a quick slant WR. For whatever reason he seems to have trouble catching quick crossing routes too, like he's too afraid to get hit or something (which is the definition of irony). Kelce is the only player on offense running normal routes. Everyone is just bracketing Hill downfield and Kelce underneath and there's no one else to throw the ball to consistently. Weirdly enough it might be a simple talent issue for the KC offense. It's a top heavy offense with zero complements.

Edited October 26, 2021 by HappyDays

[Scott7975]

Allen and Daboll sometimes have that problem. Too busy looking for the downfield stuff when they should just take the short stuff. Take the short stuff enough and the deep stuff will open up. 

[Norcalbillsfan]

The cheifs have a chance of being eliminated, people laughed at me when I said it 2 weeks ago. I still think they get a wild card but it's a serious discussion if they lose to Vegas twice and the packers and maybe the broncos pull out 1 stunner.

 

I would absolutely love them to not make playoffs, yes they are playing terrible right now. But if they get to the playoffs with healthy mahomes, kelce, hill, they are dangerous no matter what.

[ColoradoBills]

14 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

a).  I admit that I have placed way too much faith in Patrick Mahomes alone.  The 2018 where he was consistantly overcoming a horrendous D, and making numerous incredible plays, led me to think Mahomes, on his own, could overcome just about anything.  He can't.  

 

b).  When building the roster, I have been very adamant that the CAP isn't really an obsticle.  I still don't think overall, the CAP is a major hurdle to roster building, but if you are going to push money forward, then you will have needed to spent it wisely.....where the money you spent is showing up on the field.  Too much of the allocations of CAP dollars KC has invested, is not tranlating into any production on the field.  I still don't think it's a bad way to go IF you get the production, but they have NOT this season at all.

 

First off Zero your post was well done and honest.  Personally I think having you on the board is a plus.

 

Regarding the bolded in a).  You are not the first fan of a team with an "elite" QB to feel this way.  I would wager some GMs and HCs

have even thought this.  QB is the most important piece on building a team but the reality is you still have to have a good team.

 

Regarding the bolded in b).  Too many fans (and GMs) believe the CAP is not a major hurdle.  Allocating a teams cap IMO is the most important

GM job AFTER getting a Franchise (hopefully Elite) QB.  Any team can sign a large group of players to contracts even if they don't have the

cap space but in the long run the cap is the "big equalizer" that can't be escaped.  It's why drafting well lessens that cap issue and is

critical in building and keeping a dominant team.  It has to be so hard for a GMs/HCs to keep their heads in all of this when they see guys

they would love to have on their team!

 

Not drafting well, signing too many high dollar FAs that don't play to their pay and pushing out cap year after year IMO has ruined many

of good football teams.  It's a very tough balancing act.  Brandon Beane has been both good and bad in these regards and something I hope he

can continue to learn from going forward.  KC has good bones and can bounce back quickly or they can compound their issues.  I'm very

interested in what they do going forward.  I'm interested because the Bills are a year behind in a lot of these choices. 

FWIW.

[Don Otreply]

15 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

....ugh.....

 

I'll try and address issues brought up....

 

1.  For the millionth time already...I joined this board after the trade to watch how the trade played out and to troll.  I've made no secret about that.  Over time, I have come to really enjoy the community here.  I was a Josh Allen doubter...not ANTI josh....I just didn't think he'd ever overcome the low comp%.  I posted many times I was rooting for him, he's fun to watch etc.  I am glad he's succeeded.  I really enjoy watching him play.  In the time since I have joined here...I kind of look at the Bills as my second favorite team, I met Poncho Villa at the 2018 Draft, I bought my kid a Bills jersey.  I enjoy the interaction and crap takling that is part of fandom and I also like just talking ball even if it isn't Chiefs specific.  I can understand why some here hate me, some don't....I'm not here to try and win a popularity contest....just here to participate at this point...wich I am grateful to be allowed to do here.  It's a great place to talk football and have fun.  

 

If I don't show up here, it's because I died problably...it won't ever be because my team sucks and I am hiding.  I'll show up and take my medicine when I have it coming.

 

2.  Regarding KC and my thoughts on the team.

 

a).  I admit that I have placed way too much faith in Patrick Mahomes alone.  The 2018 where he was consistantly overcoming a horrendous D, and making numerous incredible plays, led me to think Mahomes, on his own, could overcome just about anything.  He can't.  

 

b).  When building the roster, I have been very adamant that the CAP isn't really an obsticle.  I still don't think overall, the CAP is a major hurdle to roster building, but if you are going to push money forward, then you will have needed to spent it wisely.....where the money you spent is showing up on the field.  Too much of the allocations of CAP dollars KC has invested, is not tranlating into any production on the field.  I still don't think it's a bad way to go IF you get the production, but they have NOT this season at all.

 

c.)  In refference to the above....I have been overly optimisitc on some of what KC has done related to roster construction.  Even where I've been kind of right about having some doubts... I was still overly optimistic...for example....If you go back to where KC aquired Orlando Brown...I mentioned that he was more of a run blocker who might struggle some with speed rushers in pass blocking.  He's been a horrible pass blocker...worse than I could have imagined at the time.  I thought Jaran Reed would bring help to hte pass rush...he's been a complete non factor.  Street FA would be just as productive or better.  

 

d.)  Watching the KC offense, they continue to run the same plays they've ran now for 3 years.....playes that have 3 and 4 and sometimes 5 WR all run at least 10 yards upfield before doing anything.  Defenses are ready for this...they are all playing back in cover 2 or cover 3 deeper zones.  KC simply doesn't run nearly enough short routes, slants, crossers, quick outs, etc.  It's all way upfield.  KC runs right into the coverage...Mahomes can't see an open man and then runs around hoping the coverage breaks down, and it just isn't happening much.  I think it's possible Ried has either gotten stale and/or the tradgedy of his messed up kid(s) has taken away his attention and focus.  He has health issues.  I think the energy is fading and perhaps, the NFL has caught up to him and he just doesn't have it in him now to respond and change accordingly.  

 

e.) Mahomes is pressing, but also, see D.  and see C. regarding Brown.  The KC staff, players, and Mahomes himself, seem insistant on continuing to look for the home run ball...they've lived off it for the past 3 years..and teams have taken it away.  They all need to rconsider things....Its incredible that this team litterally looks befuddled by cover 2.  It's because they won't adjust.  Arrogance, pride...whatever.  they haven't evolved and everyone else has.  

 

f.)  too many guys don't seem hungry.  

 

I am sure I am missing some other things brought up.

 

I would simply follow up by saying that many of KC's issues may well remain unresolved until the offseason.  They may well struggle with all this and miss the playoffs.  As a fan I am hoping they get it turned around and make the wild card and see if they can make a run...but I won't be surprised at this point if this season comes to nothing.  Considering how it's gone and how it's going....My optimism beginning the year....seems foolish and the crow doesn't taste good.  

 

Lastly, I'd point out that Reid, Spags, etc...they've been doing this for years and have been highly successful.  in 2016, KC started 1-6.  They finished 10-6....I don't think Andy Ried suddenly became a dumbass or that Mahomes has forgotten how to play the QB position all of the sudden.  hopefully they've got another run in them and adjustments and fixes are comeing sooner rather than later.....right now it's a bunch of suck.

Your point about adapting to how your opponents play you is spot on, we Bills fans have had some level of trepidation concerning this with our team as well, so far we have been doing well on that front, but the need for adaptation is always an on going concern for all teams. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[atlbillsfan1975]

16 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

....ugh.....

 

I'll try and address issues brought up....

 

1.  For the millionth time already...I joined this board after the trade to watch how the trade played out and to troll.  I've made no secret about that.  Over time, I have come to really enjoy the community here.  I was a Josh Allen doubter...not ANTI josh....I just didn't think he'd ever overcome the low comp%.  I posted many times I was rooting for him, he's fun to watch etc.  I am glad he's succeeded.  I really enjoy watching him play.  In the time since I have joined here...I kind of look at the Bills as my second favorite team, I met Poncho Villa at the 2018 Draft, I bought my kid a Bills jersey.  I enjoy the interaction and crap takling that is part of fandom and I also like just talking ball even if it isn't Chiefs specific.  I can understand why some here hate me, some don't....I'm not here to try and win a popularity contest....just here to participate at this point...wich I am grateful to be allowed to do here.  It's a great place to talk football and have fun.  

 

If I don't show up here, it's because I died problably...it won't ever be because my team sucks and I am hiding.  I'll show up and take my medicine when I have it coming.

 

2.  Regarding KC and my thoughts on the team.

 

a).  I admit that I have placed way too much faith in Patrick Mahomes alone.  The 2018 where he was consistantly overcoming a horrendous D, and making numerous incredible plays, led me to think Mahomes, on his own, could overcome just about anything.  He can't.  

 

b).  When building the roster, I have been very adamant that the CAP isn't really an obsticle.  I still don't think overall, the CAP is a major hurdle to roster building, but if you are going to push money forward, then you will have needed to spent it wisely.....where the money you spent is showing up on the field.  Too much of the allocations of CAP dollars KC has invested, is not tranlating into any production on the field.  I still don't think it's a bad way to go IF you get the production, but they have NOT this season at all.

 

c.)  In refference to the above....I have been overly optimisitc on some of what KC has done related to roster construction.  Even where I've been kind of right about having some doubts... I was still overly optimistic...for example....If you go back to where KC aquired Orlando Brown...I mentioned that he was more of a run blocker who might struggle some with speed rushers in pass blocking.  He's been a horrible pass blocker...worse than I could have imagined at the time.  I thought Jaran Reed would bring help to hte pass rush...he's been a complete non factor.  Street FA would be just as productive or better.  

 

d.)  Watching the KC offense, they continue to run the same plays they've ran now for 3 years.....playes that have 3 and 4 and sometimes 5 WR all run at least 10 yards upfield before doing anything.  Defenses are ready for this...they are all playing back in cover 2 or cover 3 deeper zones.  KC simply doesn't run nearly enough short routes, slants, crossers, quick outs, etc.  It's all way upfield.  KC runs right into the coverage...Mahomes can't see an open man and then runs around hoping the coverage breaks down, and it just isn't happening much.  I think it's possible Ried has either gotten stale and/or the tradgedy of his messed up kid(s) has taken away his attention and focus.  He has health issues.  I think the energy is fading and perhaps, the NFL has caught up to him and he just doesn't have it in him now to respond and change accordingly.  

 

e.) Mahomes is pressing, but also, see D.  and see C. regarding Brown.  The KC staff, players, and Mahomes himself, seem insistant on continuing to look for the home run ball...they've lived off it for the past 3 years..and teams have taken it away.  They all need to rconsider things....Its incredible that this team litterally looks befuddled by cover 2.  It's because they won't adjust.  Arrogance, pride...whatever.  they haven't evolved and everyone else has.  

 

f.)  too many guys don't seem hungry.  

 

I am sure I am missing some other things brought up.

 

I would simply follow up by saying that many of KC's issues may well remain unresolved until the offseason.  They may well struggle with all this and miss the playoffs.  As a fan I am hoping they get it turned around and make the wild card and see if they can make a run...but I won't be surprised at this point if this season comes to nothing.  Considering how it's gone and how it's going....My optimism beginning the year....seems foolish and the crow doesn't taste good.  

 

Lastly, I'd point out that Reid, Spags, etc...they've been doing this for years and have been highly successful.  in 2016, KC started 1-6.  They finished 10-6....I don't think Andy Ried suddenly became a dumbass or that Mahomes has forgotten how to play the QB position all of the sudden.  hopefully they've got another run in them and adjustments and fixes are comeing sooner rather than later.....right now it's a bunch of suck.

I appreciate you admitting you like to troll, I actually have more respect for you. Also admitting you were wrong about plenty of other things regarding the construct of the roster.

I recall you being rather arrogant regarding the FA signings by KC, and telling me and a few others here that basically KC figured out a work around for pushing money down the road...Let's see how this works out for the team. KC could be the shortest "dynasty" the NFL has ever seen. What IF Mahomes really isn't that good, but was a product of a system like so many QB's to come out of the Big 12? I mean this could just as easily be the case as say KC ripping off 10 wins and then a SB run. Imagine having that contract in place and Reid leaves in a year or two? Time will tell. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by atlbillsfan1975

[MJS]

On 10/25/2021 at 8:36 AM, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It’s rough we built our defense around beating the chiefs and they’re not gonna make the playoffs but teams like the browns/ravens/titans will be in there…bucs must be thrilled they are built well to demolish any of those teams if they can get through the nfc 

We did pretty well vs the Ravens in the playoffs last year. There's no reason to believe we can't beat the Browns. But yeah, the Titans are a problem. Potentially. They are hot right now, but they are an inconsistent team. They lost to the Jets.

[RiotAct]

3 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

The cheifs have a chance of being eliminated, people laughed at me when I said it 2 weeks ago. I still think they get a wild card but it's a serious discussion if they lose to Vegas twice and the packers and maybe the broncos pull out 1 stunner.

 

I would absolutely love them to not make playoffs, yes they are playing terrible right now. But if they get to the playoffs with healthy mahomes, kelce, hill, they are dangerous no matter what.

 Very good chance we end up playing them in Orchard Park in the Wild Card or Divisional Round.

[Zerovoltz]

4 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I appreciate you admitting you like to troll, I actually have more respect for you. Also admitting you were wrong about plenty of other things regarding the construct of the roster.

I recall you being rather arrogant regarding the FA signings by KC, and telling me and a few others here that basically KC figured out a work around for pushing money down the road...Let's see how this works out for the team. KC could be the shortest "dynasty" the NFL has ever seen. What IF Mahomes really isn't that good, but was a product of a system like so many QB's to come out of the Big 12? I mean this could just as easily be the case as say KC ripping off 10 wins and then a SB run. Imagine having that contract in place and Reid leaves in a year or two? Time will tell. 

 

The John Elway broncos went 5-11 in 1990.  Elway started all 16 games and he had a pretty bad year.  No one thought he was suddenly a bad QB.  0The Tom Brady led, back to back super bowl champion Patriots, missed the playoffs in 2002.  Brady threw 14 INTS that year.  No one thought he was a flash in the pan.  Mahomes may be in the midst of a down season, but no one anywhere thinks he's a bust etc.  3 seasons of very high level production is more than enough sample size to cement Mahomes as a high end QB.  I would say that his struggles are more to do with factors around him than they are with him alone.  

[atlbillsfan1975]

5 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

The John Elway broncos went 5-11 in 1990.  Elway started all 16 games and he had a pretty bad year.  No one thought he was suddenly a bad QB.  0The Tom Brady led, back to back super bowl champion Patriots, missed the playoffs in 2002.  Brady threw 14 INTS that year.  No one thought he was a flash in the pan.  Mahomes may be in the midst of a down season, but no one anywhere thinks he's a bust etc.  3 seasons of very high level production is more than enough sample size to cement Mahomes as a high end QB.  I would say that his struggles are more to do with factors around him than they are with him alone.  

I didn’t say a bust. I said a product of a system. Now we are seeing that system breakdown. It will be interesting to see what happens to Reid and then Mahomes. Can Mahomes have similar success with a different HC/OC? I think we will find out sooner than later.