Chiefs = Paper Tigers

[y2zipper]

19 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

Addressing some of the last several posts.

 

1.  the O line has been pretty good...especially the interior 3.  Niang has had some growing pains...but overall, has been decent.  Orlando Brown has been OK, but he isn't elite.  There are cap reasons why Eric Fisher isn't a Chief now...but when healthy, he's a better player than Brown.  Brown hasn't been awful, he's just not great.  Overall, this line is better now, than what KC ran out last year.  Of the troubles KC has had, the line really hasn't been one.

 

2.  It's been mentioned one way or another that Clyde Edwards Helaire has been a bad draft choice.  I AGREE!.  You don't take RB that high....unless he's the next Barry Sanders...and there hasn't been one of those since....Barry Sanders.  When KC drafted CEH...the talk was that he would contribute in the passing game....that you could split him out wide and so on.  HE SUCKS in the passing game.  They don't trust him or use him...he's also a bad pass blocker.  As a runner, I don't think I've ever seen a RB with worse field vision.  He doens't understand how to play off his blockers...and if the line does a good job and makes a 7 yard hole...CEH gets exactly 7 yards out of it.  He doesn't make anyone miss and he doesn't break tackles.  He's awful in the screen game as well. Has ZERO concept of following blockers...just catches the ball and takes off, rendering the blockers useless.  CEH leaves a TON of yards on the field.  Horrible draft choice, in an era where RB's are a dime a dozen...waste of a high value pick.

 

3.  KC has gone with a "stars and jags" approach.  I don't have a problem with that if done right.  KC hasn't quite done it right.  KC has tried to keep everyone.  That's tough to do, and when you dole out big contracts to your guys, you need two things to happen more often than not...A) you need your big money guys to live up to their contracts.  And B) you need your jags to outplay their cheap contracts.  In KCs case, too much of the big money on D hasn't come through.  Frank Clarks contract is bad.  Chris Jones contract is ok, but he needs to be playing as an inside pass rusher...that's where he's elite...not at END where he is MEH and a waste of money and talent.  Anthony Hitchens contract is AWFUL and so poorly written that they've had to live with him at MLB for years and can finally escape this upcoming offseason. 

 

the other half of this is that KC simply hasn't drafted well enough to sustain this at present.  KC has spent too many 2nd-4th round picks on guys who can't get on the field.  That's a HUGE problem if you ***** Stars and Jags....you can't keep missing on draft picks (especially 2nd and 3rds) who don't contribute with cheap contracts and above average production.  KC simply hasn't gotten enough out of drafts recently to make this work.

 

4.  KC coaches have got to admit that the leauge is agressively working to take Hill and Kelce out of games and are playing 2 deep to limit big plays.  There is a certain amount of ego and arrogance involved here where KC thinks it can dictate the play on O and call and do what they want when they want.  Not now.  KC needs to run teams out of their light box looks instead of calling pass plays that are covered by what teams are doing.  Run until they get out of the two deep.  Run short slants etc utnil they get out of the two deep.  KC refuses....still running alot plays with deep routes even when the box is light. 

 

5.  Specific to this defense , this year...KC hasn't blitzed much....the D is getting burnt up.  Sorenson, Hitchens, and Ben Nieman are SLOW and not good at much.  Might as well blitz and at least get guys who can run on the field.  Blitzing will get them burnt too, but if they cause a TO or incompletion sometimes...it would be better than what's they've been doing. 

 

All ths said....KC is still something like 3rd on O and still have Mahomes, Kelce and Hill.  This is going to be one of those years where we just need to get to the playoffs and hopefully get hot at the right time.  The AFC isnt going through KC this year for sure.     

 

Let's be honest: reports of the Chiefs' demise have probably been greatly exaggerated. The game against Buffalo is the only game where they got outplayed by any significant margin and have played tough competition.

 

For all the talk, the offensive issues will straighten themselves out. Kansas City is first in every drive efficiency category and are 5th in points on the least amount of drives in the league. They also lead the league in lost fumbles, which is widely considered a random stat and have a 1-2 record in one possession games. 

 

Real issues on the offense are that Mahomes interception rate is too high and I do think they need to run more because they are good at it this season and defenses will give it. It's something that Buffalo is doing to the dismay of some people here, but it's worked out for us so far.

 

The defense is a major issue, though. KC just bleeds points on the defensive side of the ball and their defense isn't getting turnovers right now. I could be a product of the excellent offenses they've played, and you'll find out the next few weeks here. Their backs seem a step slower than last year, and Jones and Clark have taken turns being out. I don't think it's going to continue to be one of the worst in history, but they do need a change in approach.

[Beerball]

On which page do the mea culpas start?

 

Good Call Dr. K!

[L Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

What is bored lol a player is always playing for their next contract and has absolutely every reason to have a great game every week.  

True but that offense always had another gear they could go into.  Most of those games were close but never in doubt.  Would you want to run into them in the playoffs?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I frankly suspect that one reason the Bills put Williams at RG when they decided to start Brown at RT was to put a vet next to the rookie to "coach him up" and steady him.  I wonder a bit if the Chiefs would benefit by starting Duvernay-Tardiff between Humphries and Niang for the same reason - Trey Smith may be by far the better athlete and long term the better player, but maybe the inexperience on the R side of their line is an issue?  I don't know. 

 

No way. Trey has been their best OL through 5 games to my eye. Benching him would be madness.

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:20 AM, 17islongenough said:

Yet they killed the Bills.   What does that make us?

The Bills were stupid and wanted to do things cute? 

 

Certain teams you gotta beat a certain way, especially paper tigers.

Edited October 16, 2021 by ExiledInIllinois

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

No way. Trey has been their best OL through 5 games to my eye. Benching him would be madness.

 

I hear your POV, and I have not watched all 5 Chiefs games much less the OL in detail for all 5 games.  So I could easily be mistaken.

 

On the other hand I recall you evaluated Quinton Spain as the best OLman on the Bills - a viewpoint not shared by the professional coaches and FO on the Bills who benched and then cut him.  IIRC, you were similarly positive about his performance on the Bengals though I could be misremembering - yet the Bengals waited to sign him to a 1 yr contract for vet minimum at the end of March - almost as though they were looking for an upgrade.

 

Most puzzling indeed.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I hear your POV, and I have not watched all 5 Chiefs games much less the OL in detail for all 5 games.  So I could easily be mistaken.

 

On the other hand I recall you evaluated Quinton Spain as the best OLman on the Bills - a viewpoint not shared by the professional coaches and FO on the Bills who benched and then cut him.  IIRC, you were similarly positive about his performance on the Bengals though I could be misremembering - yet the Bengals waited to sign him to a 1 yr contract for vet minimum at the end of March - almost as though they were looking for an upgrade.

 

Most puzzling indeed.

 

 

 

I didn't call Spain the best lineman on the Bills. Better than some of the guys (Ford) who were playing while he was benched however? Yes. Yes I did. I stand by it too.

 

Edit: and to be clear, 5 games earlier those same "professionals" felt fit to extend him for 3 years. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Mat68]

Paper?  No.  Older yes?  I saw a few weeks ago Gronk is only like 6 or 8 months older than Kelce.  Gronk seems like he has played for 20 years at this point.  Outside of Mahomes, Hill and Kelce how is the player development going?  That was augmented by Matthew and Ford but they are older and missing time now.  

 

Their style of play has been unsustainable.  For as dynamic a team they are the worst team vs the spread over the last 3 years.  The pff “turnover worthy play”. That has disappeared for the most part from them because Mahomes lead the league by a mile last year.  Now the ball is bouncing the other way.  
 

I believe Buffalo and Kc are going in 2 separate directions.  Right now, this Kc team can still beat anyone.  They will be a problem in the playoffs.  The team as a whole is going to have some big changes to continue the same level of success moving forward this offseason.  One thing Bill and the Patriots did would change the teams make up to stay ahead. Most teams try to hold onto what they had.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Mat68

[wjag]

23 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

  Frank Clarks contract is bad.  Chris Jones contract is ok, but he needs to be playing as an inside pass rusher...that's where he's elite...not at END where he is MEH and a waste of money and talent. 

 

Zero.  I've been musing about Jones since they made the move.  I wasn't sure I saw the logic then and I sure as heck don't see the logic now.  Move him back inside where his path to the QB is shorter.  That might give the secondary a better chance if the QB is off platform or off his mark. 

[NewEra]

23 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

No.  They got bored and sloppy.  They are very good.  That offense will adapt and they will get 11 wins.  Defense will improve a bit as well.  Without the turnovers I think our game is a lot closer.

They are very good- but they aren’t taking what the defense gives them.  Their OC and Mahomes are getting cocky.  They’ve always been able to just make it happen when they want/need. Their defense is just too crappy right now for their O to overcome. 
 

Chris Jones not playing against us was monumental imo.  The second I heard he wasn’t playing, I hammered the bills on the money line

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Jones has been playing end for whatever reason…. So not sure it would’ve mattered if KC stuck to that dumb strategy…. He’s an absolute beast inside and ***** on the Bills interior line last season in both games 

That was also with Frank Clark out.  I can’t see them sticking with that.  It would’ve been too tempting to put him opposite Feliciano considering their last 2 matchups vs one another.  

[Norcalbillsfan]

I definitely think alot of media are overreacting with the " mahomes has been figured out" He's still elite and can almost singlehandedly beat any NFL team any day.

With that said I fell like its pretty obvious why they have lost the games they have, their secondary is atrocious and any competent QB has been able to shred them. Most of the time mahomes and hill can have a track meet and make up for the D. But Allen Herbert and Jackson are qbs that can keep pace and if the opposing D can get a few stops or FGs the cheifs have an uphill battle cuz that secondary couldn't stop Glenn Foley.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I definitely think alot of media are overreacting with the " mahomes has been figured out" He's still elite and can almost singlehandedly beat any NFL team any day.

With that said I fell like its pretty obvious why they have lost the games they have, their secondary is atrocious and any competent QB has been able to shred them. Most of the time mahomes and hill can have a track meet and make up for the D. But Allen Herbert and Jackson are qbs that can keep pace and if the opposing D can get a few stops or FGs the cheifs have an uphill battle cuz that secondary couldn't stop Glenn Foley.

Only Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence have thrown more picks than Mahomes. It’s not all on their defense.

[Patrick Duffy]

5 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I definitely think alot of media are overreacting with the " mahomes has been figured out" He's still elite and can almost singlehandedly beat any NFL team any day.

With that said I fell like its pretty obvious why they have lost the games they have, their secondary is atrocious and any competent QB has been able to shred them. Most of the time mahomes and hill can have a track meet and make up for the D. But Allen Herbert and Jackson are qbs that can keep pace and if the opposing D can get a few stops or FGs the cheifs have an uphill battle cuz that secondary couldn't stop Glenn Foley.

I agree. He just got beat by the better team last game. But "figured out" is exactly the media talk. Only thing figured out is the defensive scheme best to use that will at least give your team a chance, as long as you can put up some points. 

 

But PM can and will make defenses look stupid no matter what or how much he is "figured out" as they say.

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Only Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence have thrown more picks than Mahomes. It’s not all on their defense.

Yeah it's not all on their defense, always is more than one part to be held account for struggling most ofthe time. However that Defense is a very big part of the reason so far. But unfortunately I think they get better as season goes on....

Edited October 17, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno if I agree that Watkins was such a big loss for them.  He was their 5th receiver last season in terms of yards? The Chiefs ran a (1,1) set even more than we did last season (74%)  and when they didn't, were 17% (1,2). So they seldom have more than 3 WR on the field and sometimes only 2 WR.  I think Hardman is a good receiver - pro bowl his rookie year might mean something? ; given Watkins saw more snaps (almost 50%) and had less production (42 y/g), it wasn't illogical to think Hardman (38% snaps, 32 y/g) could take a bigger slice of the pie and maybe Robinson too (65% of the snaps last season)

 

 

Hardman's pro bowl nod as a rookie was as a returner not a receiver. I do think he is a good deep threat guy and he is good on the sweeps and reverses but I think the problem is he is a bit of a Tyreek Hill lite. I think where they miss Sammy a bit (or someone of his type) is that guy who can run the intermediate in cuts and out cuts etc and is a slightly bigger body - Sammy isn't huge by any means but he is 6'1, 210 and at times he was that possession receiver that converted 1st downs. He had 87 1st downs over his three years there. It is not Sammy Watkins as such they are missing but I do think they are missing a better complimentary #2 to Hill's skillset. I think if Stef Diggs is your #1 you'd love Hardman as your #2, I just feel he and Hill are a bit similar. 

 

Receiver is not the biggest of their issues, I think we agree on that, but the Chiefs fans I speak to generally complain about the lack of depth behind Hill. 

[eball]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

the Chiefs fans I speak to

 

Why in the world would you do that?

 

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Why in the world would you do that?

 

 

Ha. I speak to fans from most other teams. 

[Patrick Duffy]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ha. I speak to fans from most other teams. 

Yeah me too. Some are good convo's and some are easy for you to find out they are band wagon type fans. And some are just really stupid and pretend they are football smart only to say something ignorant or ask an ignorant question that shows they don't know *****. Have come across many kinds.

 

Believe it or not I had a guy ask me if EJ was still starting QB lol. And was 2019. Allens 2nd season. Also Tyrod was QB for like 3 years after EJ lol, Was out of left field.....guy started off acting as if he knew this and that and why, but when he said that to me I could do nothing but give him the "look" and walk away.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Only Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence have thrown more picks than Mahomes. It’s not all on their defense.

 

Yep. Whatever the reason, if he is pressing or not, the bottom line is Mahomes has to play better. He is making too many poor decisions that are hurting his team right now.

 

Of course the defense is the biggest issue but actually they have problems on all 3 phases. 

 

The one defense I would make of Kansas City is they have played a tough slate of games. I think there is a top 5 in the AFC at the moment and Kansas City have played all 4 of the other members of that group through 5 weeks. The schedule will lighten up some, but the conclusion is at the moment they are not beating those other teams in that top tier. 

[Cantankeous]

I guess this fits here -an exceptional analysis by Ollie the Brit! I’ll be following this guys takes the rest of the season.

https://youtu.be/DOqZoR4dAWQ