Call your shot: How is DE battle resolved? (update - after preseason games)

[MJS]

28 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think the fact that multiple DE’s on this team can kick inside on passing downs changes the equation.  
 

Also, Jerry and/or Mario likely aren’t here next year.  Obada is on a one year deal.  If we cut Johnson, that leaves us with 3 young DE’s under contract for next year.  Not the worst thing in the world if Johnson isn’t in their long term plans, but may play into their thinking. 

That's why I would love to move on from Addison, or even, to a lesser extent, Hughes (not both of them, though). Both of them are old. I'd rather keep the young guys to develop.

 

But we'll see.

[Sugar High JA17]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

This is from Bobby Greco of the FN Draft Bible, fwiw, rookies that will stand out:

 

Defense

Carlos "Boogie" Basham, DE, Buffalo:

This was a difficult choice between Basham and Bill's first-round pick Gregory Rousseau, but Basham played in 2020 and was the most complete pass rusher in the draft. Just turn on the tape, and Boogie will jump off the screen. He is just disruptive on every play, with the perfect combination of power and speed. Basham has a ton of power when rushing the passer, but once he sees a lineman get ready for a power move, he switches it up and runs right past the lineman. It's going to be a lot of fun to watch what Basham and Rousseau can do in Buffalo and for years to come.

Lets hope this guy gets it right on C-los Boogie Bash. I think if we have any long term injuries this year Bash will fill in on the line & impress with his raw skills

[Rigotz]

10 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

I am very close to agreeing with you (in terms of how unlikely those first five options are), but apparently 40% (72/180) of voters right now think that at least one of these options cannot be easily removed.

 

And I think it can be easily argued that Johnson stays since he is core special teamer and also that there is zero chance we will keep 7 DEs. Maybe like you said keeping 10 DL overall including these 7 could be an option.

 

However, I think they will prefer keeping Star, Ed, Zimmer and Phillips which will exclude this scenario.

 

Therefore my call is still trading Obada for 6th or something, even though I wouldn't like it.

 

40% of the message board must not know how the salary cap and waiver system works.

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

You do realize that Jerry is 33 and Mario will be 34 next month, right? 

I knew Hughes was past 30 and need to mentor his next up ! 

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, T master said:

Personal opinion they should keep 1 vet being Hughes and keep the younger players this team is looking to the future so keep getting younger and Hughes can be the lone teacher of how to be a really good football player at their position ...

They brought Addison in for the same reason, and to get production from him. he lead in sacks last year. (I know)
 Bills are finally over staffed at D Line !
Losing any of these men we talked about week after week is not my favorite part of the season for sure

 my vote is they keep both one more season. and my opinion is that is what McBeanes will do

[Wizard]

The answer is probably keeping 7 DE and taking away a DT like Zimmer, Butler, or Phillips. And, then unless their is remarkable improvement, someone like Basham will not dress on game day unless there is a rash of injuries.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Wizard

[BillsFanForever19]

It's all the rage amongst fans for them to cut Mario Addison and Taiwan Jones and I guarantee neither is going to happen.

Edited August 18, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[LyndonvilleBill]

8 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

It's all the rage amongst fans for them to cut Mario Addison and Taiwan Jones and I guarantee neither is going to happen.

I agree on Addison,  but don't you think Kumerow or Breida could take the 5-10 plays a game on special teams AND offer something to the offense if needed?🤔

[maryland-bills-fan]

13 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

It's all the rage amongst fans for them to cut Mario Addison and Taiwan Jones and I guarantee neither is going to happen.

what is your guarantee?  I think a trade is more likely.  It is time to start watching other teams weakneses and who who like an upgrade from Addison, Butler or Hudges.   MAybe all 3

On 8/16/2021 at 9:12 PM, skibum said:

Yes, the old Vosean Joseph maneuver! I think that was his name, anyway.

 

That actually sounds like a likely scenario if they don't think Boogie's ready. Charles, I think you might have called it!

Boogie played last year and is a more complete player than Rousseau is now.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 9:39 AM, Victory Formation said:

If it was me, I’d cut/trade Addison. Keep Hughes as our veteran/leader type presence on defense. Daryl Johnson is probably the weakest link, not Basham, but Johnson is a very good STs player and he is also a quality backup lineman. I do think there’s a chance that he develops into a quality rotational guy. If the Bills cut him, I think they’ll regret it down the line.
 

Ultimately I think we need to see a youth movement along the DL. Groot, Epenesa, Basham, Obada and Johnson are our future. Even without Hughes and Addison in the game, the Bills DL looked dominant and deep all along that entire DL through all 4 quarters in the game. So why not deal Addison for picks? It seems like the transition this year for our younger players will be effortles, so why hang onto older vets who cost more and will not provide as much juice? 

 

I agree that Addison should be swamped for a draft pick.  Perhaps he might return a late 3rd or early 4th round pick (pick85-110).  That would be a great trade chip for us to move up in the 2nd or 3rd round.  We could look at the $$ paid to him this year as an investment on that traded draft pick.

Edited August 18, 2021 by maryland-bills-fan

[maryland-bills-fan]

On 8/17/2021 at 10:32 AM, Back2Buff said:

IMO, who plays at the end of meaningless preseason games says a lot.

 

Obada was in there right till the end.  

I don;t know.  They could be playing them because:

[1]  He is on the bubble and they want more tape and experience

[2]  He is on the bubble or will be squeezed out by younger players and the are giving trade partners some game tape and health report on him

[3]  He is cannon fodder and the roster spots are filled and they are not risking injuries.

]4\  He is cannon fodder but might catch on with another team with that exposure.  Player's agents will take note of that and encourage free agents to accept try-outs with Buffalo  to have a better chance of catching on somewhere.

[5]  He looks cute in shorts to one of the staff.

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by maryland-bills-fan

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I agree on Addison,  but don't you think Kumerow or Breida could take the 5-10 plays a game on special teams AND offer something to the offense if needed?🤔

 

Taiwan played 200 something snaps last year on special teams.  If you keep a 7th dline or 10th oline, you are forced to replace those snaps and I'm certain the STs coach would look at it as a downgrade.  Put the extras on the practice squad.

18 hours ago, MJS said:

That's why I would love to move on from Addison, or even, to a lesser extent, Hughes (not both of them, though). Both of them are old. I'd rather keep the young guys to develop.

 

But we'll see.

 

I think they're both free agents next year.  Hughes saves more cap space, but he's almost impossible to trade.  He's also probably our best defensive lineman.  

The team has super bowl aspirations, they aren't trying to win some cap space war, or keep all the young players.  Get the best 53 and try and win the damn thing!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

16 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

what is your guarantee?  I think a trade is more likely.  It is time to start watching other teams weakneses and who who like an upgrade from Addison, Butler or Hudges.   MAybe all 3

Boogie played last year and is a more complete player than Rousseau is now.

 

I agree that Addison should be swamped for a draft pick.  Perhaps he might return a late 3rd or early 4th round pick (pick85-110).  That would be a great trade chip for us to move up in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Moving players before the season starts usually results in terrible returns.  I'm open to it, but i trust the GM/coach to see that and make the right call.  I also don't want to cut a mccoy so we can throw frank gore out there again.  While that was financially a good move, i feel like mccoy would have been a more productive player for the offense in 2018 than frank gore.

 

Rousseau and Basham are probably situational players at this point.  Neither is ready to start and be productive.  So moving on from an addison creates pass rush opportunities, but thins out the team depth wise on early downs to Obada and darryl johnson.  I don't have a ton of faith in that pair to be impact players on early downs.

[BillsFanForever19]

15 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I agree on Addison,  but don't you think Kumerow or Breida could take the 5-10 plays a game on special teams AND offer something to the offense if needed?🤔

 

McDermott praised Jones as being in his eyes "the best gunner in the NFL". We've already lost Andre Roberts and will most likely lose Daryl Johnson from a pure numbers standpoint. I don't see us then voluntarily getting rid of someone who is considered our top Special Teams player. 

 

McDermott and Beane have spoke of the importance of having a core of Special Teams specialists. When you trade those guys in for guys who might not be as good there but offer more on Offense or Defense - you get burned. As we did in 2019 when we didn't match Houston's offer for Taiwan. We brought him back as soon as we could. And then re-signed him this offseason, knowing he's used almost exclusively on Special Teams. 

 

Last Friday, he was a healthy scratch by McDermott. He didn't want to risk him getting hurt, even when we were already down Zack Moss and Christian Wade at RB. Even when Antonio Williams went down, they still didn't put in Jones. If you look at everyone else who sat on Friday, they're all locks. They view him as an important part of the team. If he was even in so much of a training camp battle, they wouldn't have done that 

 

9 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

what is your guarantee?  I think a trade is more likely.  It is time to start watching other teams weakneses and who who like an upgrade from Addison, Butler or Hudges.   MAybe all 3

Boogie played last year and is a more complete player than Rousseau is now.

 

Much like I stated above about Jones, Addison wasn't risked to injury last Friday amongst the rest of the locks on the roster. Beyond that, Beane has been steadfast in stating he's relying on Addison for leadership and expects big things from him this year. Often speaking of a new plan they have for reps for him to get back to where he was before last season.

 

And if they were to move on from him, they would have released him before the season. Not asked him to restructure to stay. Never under Brandon Beane's regime has he approached a player and told them they need to take a paycut to stay and then released the player. Not even someone we ended up not even using like Tyler Kroft. It's a bad look to the locker room and Beane places a heavy emphasis on morale and trust in the process. 

 

A trade is even more unlikely as it's an even worse look to say "thanks for taking that pay cut, it made it easier for us to move you to a new team at the start of the season for you to play catch up with all year". 

 

I think I remember seeing cutting Adisson wouldn't save us any money now either. I see Addison as way more unlikely to be released or traded then Trent Murphy was. Especially after only one season with us. And they never even cut or traded Murphy. 

 

I just see a big disparity between how many of you view Addison and Jones and how Beane and McDermott view them.

[Patrick Duffy]

May be a tough decision with DE. I think at least 1 is released. Obada has looked good in TC at times but has he shown enough to stay?

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

May be a tough decision with DE. I think at least 1 is released. Obada has looked good in TC at times but has he shown enough to stay?

 

Although Obada is a fan favorite because of his size, story, and potential - I don't think he's staying for a number of reasons.

 

1.) I believe his signing just before the Draft was more of a cover your butt type signing in the event that the board didn't fall in our favor at the position. Not only did it fall in our favor - but they landed TWO in the first two rounds.

 

2.) As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, if they thought as highly of him as members of this board do - he wouldn't have been on the field at the end of the game on Friday. 

 

3.) Ultimately, the numbers game isn't in his favor.

 

Although fans have written off Addison after one year and made him the new Trent Murphy of the board (who also didn't fall as they wanted) - it doesn't appear to me that's how McBeane see it.

 

Hughes and Addison sat to not risk they're health because they're important pieces in their eyes. Greg Rousseau, A.J. Epenesa, and Carlos Basham are premium Draft Picks over the past two Drafts who won't be released. In my time as a Bills fan - they've only kept 4 Defensive Ends, 5 tops. I don't see them keeping 6.

 

Even if he plays a hybrid role like Quinton Jefferson last season - he'd have to be good enough at DT to justify them releasing both Harrison Phillips and Justin Zimmer. Not to mention, from what I've seen from Rousseau and Basham - both played Inside quite a bit in College. Thus eliminating that specialized role for him. 

 

So, yeah, I just don't see it.

Edited August 19, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[machine gun kelly]

Taiwan is for another thread as the OP asked about D Line.  I don’t think you can parse out DE from DT as Frazier continues to discuss positionless football which has been trending for years around the league.

 

I see the questions are do they keep Zimmer or Harry on the inside and Johnson on the outside.  There is no upside on cutting Addison or Hughes. They don’t save that much money and will probably just exit quietly next year.

 

Im paying attention to what happens to the above three.  We’re almost assuredly keeping 10 total just like from a positionless POV we’ll keep 9 D Backs, and 6 LB’s.  Some have to be ST guys.

 

It makes sense as that leaves 3 specialists and 25 on offense.

[BillsFanForever19]

33 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I see the questions are do they keep Zimmer or Harry on the inside and Johnson on the outside.  There is no upside on cutting Addison or Hughes. They don’t save that much money and will probably just exit quietly next year.

 

Im paying attention to what happens to the above three.  We’re almost assuredly keeping 10 total just like from a positionless POV we’ll keep 9 D Backs, and 6 LB’s.  Some have to be ST guys.

 

It makes sense as that leaves 3 specialists and 25 on offense.

 

I see the 53 for the D-Line as Jerry Hughes, Mario Addison, AJ Epenesa, Greg Rousseau, and Carlos Basham at Defensive End and Ed Oliver, Star Lotulelei, Vernon Butler, and Justin Zimmer at Defensive Tackle. Possible that Harrison Phillips edges out Zimmer. But I see both Obada and Bam gone regardless. Of course, any injuries could change things.

[No_Matter_What]

So how do you feel about this after preseason games? Did you change your mind?

 

I still think this is single most interesting roster battle, and still think Obada is going to be traded, hopefully for 5th round pick. I'd hate to give up on him but I just don't think they will or want part ways with Addison. On the other hand, Beane sounded pretty ruthless to me in his interview during Packers game so maybe he actually is capable to deal Addison if he finds it best for the team.

 

Other possible option is that they actually keep all 7 on the roster, but I don't think it makes sense - we wouldn't use more than 5 on gamedays anyway.