Jags: Open competition at QB to start week 1 (update - it’s over)

[Gugny]

It's conventional wisdom and it's good optics.

 

No one thinks, or expects, that Minshew will beat out Lawrence. 

 

What the Jets are doing is asinine.  I want Urban Meyer to fall flat on his smug ***** face, but he's handling this properly, IMO.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, K-9 said:

You make some good points here regarding the veterans on that team. If Minshew is outperforming Lawrence at this time, nobody knows it better than the players in the locker room. There is no better way for a coach, especially a new one, to lose credibility with veteran players than to give a job to a player who has clearly been outperformed by another. That said, I have no idea if Minshew has shown better in camp than Lawrence. Meyer may also be trying to simply motivate Lawrence, who has never been second fiddle to anyone on the field before. Might be giving Minshew enough rope to hang himself, also. Either way, the vets in that team will know better than anyone. 

Technically he didn’t start right away at Clemson, he backed up Kelly Bryant, which dabo eventually reversed course on. But I think the difference there is Bryant had taken them to a championship game and “earned” the right to continue in the starting role.., eventually Dabo threw that out the window 

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I want Urban Meyer to fall flat on his smug ***** face,

If he doesn't, he will be the only one from college to pros that succeeded off top of my mind. Well execpt maybe Chip Kelly if you consider that success. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[Kwai San]

4 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

If he doesn't, he will be the only one from college to pros that succeeded off top of my mind. Well execpt maybe Chip Kelly if you consider that success. 

 

For a small brief time he wasn't bad but THAT blew up in his face pretty quickly.

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

If he doesn't, he will be the only one from college to pros that succeeded off top of my mind. Well execpt maybe Chip Kelly if you consider that success. 

 

Jimmy Johnson has entered the chat.

[Niagara Bill]

42 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

If there was a veteran QB on the team, I could understand this logic but besides having good stats in a few games, why is Minshew even being portrayed as potential starter? Is this really a competition at all? Appears to be a charade on the face of it. 

In theory, I agree. But, Minshew?

It may not be about Minshew, maybe Lawrence has a rather large head? Arrogance is a hindrance to leadership.

[YoloinOhio]

9 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

If he doesn't, he will be the only one from college to pros that succeeded off top of my mind. Well execpt maybe Chip Kelly if you consider that success. 

Pete Carroll

 

kliff kingsbury? Hasn’t really done anything yet but not fired yet either so 

 

Jim harbaugh (should have stayed in nfl actually)

Edited August 12, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[K-9]

28 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Well now they are but even Beane admits they didn’t go about it the right way in his rookie year. Still can’t believe they went into the year with him and peterman. And while that could kind of compare to what the jags are doing with minshew, minshew is better than peterman and josh was considered a raw project and not expected to start right away. I see Trevor as ready to go. He might not be perfect on day one but not going to develop on the bench. Seems like a charade to me. 

Imo, Beane’s most telling admission that year was when he said, “AJ isn’t who we thought he was.” They were absolutely counting on him to carry the bulk of the load initially and by the time he realized McCarron was a mistake, it was too late. That QB room was a mess until Derek Anderson and Matt Barkley came in to help settle things. 
 

But as much as they may have rushed Allen too soon, I think it helped his development in the long run. And the time he spent on the sideline while injured that year was invaluable as well. He came back a better QB. I think Allen is really good at self-scouting. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by K-9

[Patrick Duffy]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Jimmy Johnson has entered the chat.

 

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Pete Carroll

 

kliff kingsbury? Hasn’t really done anything yet but not fired yet either so 

 

Jim harbaugh (should have stayed in nfl actually)

True, guess I wasn't really thinking that far back. But either way it still is very few.

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Pete Carroll

 

kliff kingsbury? Hasn’t really done anything yet but not fired yet either so 

 

Jim harbaugh (should have stayed in nfl actually)

 

I was going to mention Harbaugh as well.

 

Carroll is a tough one because he had 15 years and his first (and 2nd) HC job in the NFL before going to USC.

 

Kingsbury... jury still out.

 

Do we include Barry Switzer from Oklahoma? Or does he not count since he inherited a Championship caliber team?

Edited August 12, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think it would be the right idea in certain cases. Like this one. Everyone knows he’s going to start eventually. He’s obviously the best QB on the roster. They are a rebuilding team as it is, there is no entrenched vet. Minshew is a poor Man’s fitzy. They know what he is. Seems pointless not to just Lawrence in there right away. Peyton Manning didn’t hang out and compete for the starting job. Have to get in there and take some lumps to develop. IMO 

Even Josh for all intents and purposes was forced into a starting role much earlier than expected in his rookie year, basically from game 1, still have shudders from that Baltimore game—anyway, it didn’t destroy him, he’s flourished. 

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

So let me get this straight. Zach Wilson (!) is handed the starting job with Jersey. They have no competition for him or even a vet backup (or anyone who has ever taken a snap in a reg season game). But the most highly rated QB in a decade, with 3 years starting experience in college, the consensus #1 overall pick who probably would have gone #1 as a true sophomore… or freshman..  isn’t handed the job. And it’s because … Gardner minshew.  I don’t know which scenario is more crazy to me. 

 

Zack Wilson is going to see more ghosts than Sam Darnold at an M. Knight Shaymalan film.

 

Cut to Zack Wilson in the fetal position, "I see dead people!" 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I was going to mention Harbaugh as well.

 

Carroll is a tough one because he had 15 years and his first (and 2nd) HC job in the NFL before going to USC.

 

Kingsbury... jury still out.

 

Do we include Barry Switzer from Oklahoma? Or does he not count since he inherited a Championship caliber team?

I think you have to, a ring’s a ring, just like other coaches have benefited from their predecessors, see e.g., Seifert got one on Walsh’s coattails in SFO. 

[wjag]

38 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Jimmy Johnson has entered the chat.

 

And Pete Carroll has left..  Muttering something like, what more do I have to do....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

So let me get this straight. Zach Wilson (!) is handed the starting job with Jersey. They have no competition for him or even a vet backup (or anyone who has ever taken a snap in a reg season game). But the most highly rated QB in a decade, with 3 years starting experience in college, the consensus #1 overall pick who probably would have gone #1 as a true sophomore… or freshman..  isn’t handed the job. And it’s because … Gardner minshew.  I don’t know which scenario is more crazy to me. 

 

I forget who made this comment, except that it was someone whose football knowledge I respect....he said that in a camp competition between a rookie and a veteran, even a mediocre veteran who is not starting-caliber will ALWAYS win.  He knows the offense better, he knows the protections better, he knows what he's seeing from defense better.

 

It's only in the regular season when the speed of the game rachets up and the defenses become more confusing that the limitations of the journeyman QB show through (exhibit: Nathan Peterman).

 

He argued that teams with a rookie QB need to just look at the rookie and ask "is he seeing *enough*?  does he understand *enough* about the defense and the protections and/or is he mobile enough, to keep himself alive?"  If the answer is "yes" let him start and take your lumps in the W column if need be.

 

If not, he has no business starting no matter who wins.

 

Made sense to me.

[RobbRiddicksTDLeap]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think it would be the right idea in certain cases. Like this one. Everyone knows he’s going to start eventually. He’s obviously the best QB on the roster. They are a rebuilding team as it is, there is no entrenched vet. Minshew is a poor Man’s fitzy. They know what he is. Seems pointless not to just Lawrence in there right away. Peyton Manning didn’t hang out and compete for the starting job. Have to get in there and take some lumps to develop. IMO 

But as we’ve seen for years and years, someone has to show Lawrence how it’s done, and more importantly, how it’s NOT done. 
 

If he is as good as as everyone says, then he should be ready to play an NFL game sooner than later. Throwing him to the wolves is a terrible idea for a kid who has no idea what an NFL pass rush looks like. 
 

Let’s not forget that Meyer hasn’t coached an NFL game either. 
 

If he really is the guy, then the 4 games he’s going to spend on the bench will be the best learning experience of his career. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Even Josh for all intents and purposes was forced into a starting role much earlier than expected in his rookie year, basically from game 1, still have shudders from that Baltimore game—anyway, it didn’t destroy him, he’s flourished. 

 

He HAS flourished, but from his rookie year with no OL, poor WR, and no run game, I do think he collected some bad habits it took time to work out of him. 

And his injury could have been worse.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He HAS flourished, but from his rookie year with no OL, poor WR, and no run game, I do think he collected some bad habits it took time to work out of him. 

And his injury could have been worse.

I definitely agree it wasn’t ideal. And the Bills were right not to just hand him the job out of the gate (say what you will, NP was always a preseason/TC beast) But I’d bet for as much as there were negatives, he also has taken some positives away from the experiences had in 2018. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

It may not be about Minshew, maybe Lawrence has a rather large head? Arrogance is a hindrance to leadership.

 

Lawrence comes across as not arrogant, in fact maybe a bit too laid-back, in interviews.

 

But it's a fact that top draft pick college QBs can start out "knowing more than the coach" sometimes.

 

Josh Allen tells a story from his rookie year where he was supposed to check to the FB but he threw to the back corner of the endzone and "it didn't go too well".  Said Daboll started screaming in his headset right away.  He took it off and he could still hear Daboll screaming.  Said he went over to the sidelines and Daboll was red in the face and screaming at him for about five minutes, eventually calmed down, walked away, then thought about it and came back and started screaming again.

 

Was asked by the reporter what he said, Allen said "Wasn't much to say.  Just check to the FB next time."

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

But as we’ve seen for years and years, someone has to show Lawrence how it’s done, and more importantly, how it’s NOT done. 
 

If he is as good as as everyone says, then he should be ready to play an NFL game sooner than later. Throwing him to the wolves is a terrible idea for a kid who has no idea what an NFL pass rush looks like. 
 

Let’s not forget that Meyer hasn’t coached an NFL game either. 
 

If he really is the guy, then the 4 games he’s going to spend on the bench will be the best learning experience of his career. 

They start with Houston though, no better team to go against in your first game