Reasons why those Mock Draft darlings are not picked - Teven Jenkins

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, that potentially causes Dalton to struggle and then they throw in Fields too early.

So I think that the fan base is screaming for fields, but both he and dalton have looked very good in camp. Nagy has said from the beginning that dalton will start week 1 and hasn’t really wavered. In wondering if they are thinking that dalton gets the ball out fast so would somewhat alleviate the pass rush even though he doesn’t have the talent/upside of fields, though otoh fields is very mobile -when he wants to be - so that may help too. I’m going to the Bills-bears game next weekend and can’t wait. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[LeGOATski]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

So I think that the fan base is screaming for fields, but both he and dalton have looked very good in camp. Nagy has said from the beginning that dalton will start week 1 and hasn’t really wavered. In wondering if they are thinking that dalton gets the ball out fast so would somewhat alleviate the pass rush even though he doesn’t have the talent/upside of fields, though otoh fields is very mobile -when he wants to be - so that may help too. I’m going to the Bills-bears game next weekend and can’t wait. 

Yeah, they both have potential to work around the OL struggles. The QB controversy playbook says to always start the veteran first. If you don't, then you're painting yourself into a corner.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Mountain Man said:

That slip was injury related, nothing to do with LT / RT

 

Disagree. The injury impacted it, sure, but I know Matt Miller spoke to teams who didn't have a first round tape grade on him because they believed he was incapable of manning the blindside.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Second round is a great spot to grab a RT and a terrible one for a LT.  Legit LTs go in the first.  Those still there in the second have serious warts.  Same with QBs, really.  Give me the best RT in the draft over the 6th best LT any day.

Yeah I get it. I'm just saying I'm not big on taking either that early. Unless it's a clear cut type scenario and was a for example, Jason Peters type Tackle. Otherwise 3rd round is a little better. Not sure about the % of LT or RT that are selected in round 1 turn out to be a good pick, but seems like more don't pan out that do. 

 

It all would depend on circumstances and all that sometimes you just have to take that chance I guess.

[Mountain Man]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Disagree. The injury impacted it, sure, but I know Matt Miller spoke to teams who didn't have a first round tape grade on him because they believed he was incapable of manning the blindside.

The injuries were the reason and it was widely reported. 

 

Just it is now being reported with Jenkins. 

 

This LT / RT narrative simply doesn't match reality 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Mountain Man said:

The injuries were the reason and it was widely reported. 

 

Just it is now being reported with Jenkins. 

 

This LT / RT narrative simply doesn't match reality 

 

Except it does. Want other examples? Jaylen Mayfield this year also got hype as a first round prospect early. Right tackle only. Went in round 3. Our own Cody Ford consensus 1st round player in the mock universe. Right tackle only, slipped to round two. Greg Little (he of more technical deficiencies than mayonnaise in a ketchup bottle) went ahead of him. Why? Could play left tackle. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Billl]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Except it does. Want other examples? Jaylen Mayfield this year also got hype as a first round prospect early. Right tackle only. Went in round 3. Our own Cody Ford consensus 1st round player in the mock universe. Right tackle only, slipped to round two. Greg Little (he of more technical deficiencies than mayonnaise in a ketchup bottle) went ahead of him. Why? Could play left tackle. 

Hadn't really thought about it before, but Beane seems to go for players who slid a bit.  Oliver, Ford, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham...all were expected to go higher than they did.

[ghostwriter]

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

Hadn't really thought about it before, but Beane seems to go for players who slid a bit.  Oliver, Ford, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham...all were expected to go higher than they did.

Dude, you just rhymed!

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Billl said:

Second round is a great spot to grab a RT and a terrible one for a LT.  Legit LTs go in the first.  Those still there in the second have serious warts.  Same with QBs, really.  Give me the best RT in the draft over the 6th best LT any day.

 

 

Disagree......round 2 is no sure thing RT's...........a lotta' guys that you can squint and tilt your head and envision maybe being adequate year one and good year 2.........if not for some injury or lack of experience on tape etc..

 

Reality is that not that many OL are ready to be good until year 3 or 4....................better off spending that pick on a more valuable position.

 

Ideally, you draft a guy later and develop him at RT or pay for one in free agency if that fails.

 

Much cheaper to fill lesser positions in UFA than the premium ones.

[Putin]

On 8/11/2021 at 12:04 PM, GunnerBill said:

Teven Jenkins went in round 2 because he is a projection at left tackle. He can play right tackle but you don't draft right tackles in round 1.

But a Guard in a top 5 is ok ! 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Putin said:

But a Guard in a top 5 is ok ! 

 

If that guard is a perennial all pro type, yes. In all other scenarios, no. Quenton Nelson is the exception that proves the rule.

[Mountain Man]

On 8/12/2021 at 9:05 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Except it does. Want other examples? Jaylen Mayfield this year also got hype as a first round prospect early. Right tackle only. Went in round 3. Our own Cody Ford consensus 1st round player in the mock universe. Right tackle only, slipped to round two. Greg Little (he of more technical deficiencies than mayonnaise in a ketchup bottle) went ahead of him. Why? Could play left tackle. 

No it doesn't. You are trying to find examples to fit a narrative. Unfortunately the examples don't support it

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Mountain Man said:

No it doesn't. You are trying to find examples to fit a narrative. Unfortunately the examples don't support it

 

They do.

[Bill from NYC]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:16 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Disagree......round 2 is no sure thing RT's...........a lotta' guys that you can squint and tilt your head and envision maybe being adequate year one and good year 2.........if not for some injury or lack of experience on tape etc..

 

Reality is that not that many OL are ready to be good until year 3 or 4....................better off spending that pick on a more valuable position.

 

Ideally, you draft a guy later and develop him at RT or pay for one in free agency if that fails.

 

Much cheaper to fill lesser positions in UFA than the premium ones.

I'm curious....is this view all inclusive? In other words, if a player with the talent of a Bob Brown, or Eric Williams (easily in my top 5 of the best OTs I ever saw) was available, wouldn't he be worth a first round pick?

I know that RTs were thought of as road graders when running the football was more prevalent, but the above mentioned RTs could do it all. I tend to agree that RTs should rarely be picked in round 1. Again, I'm just wondering if you would make an exception under any circumstances. 

[Mountain Man]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They do.

Jawaan Taylor and Tevin Jenkins don't. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I'm curious....is this view all inclusive? In other words, if a player with the talent of a Bob Brown, or Eric Williams (easily in my top 5 of the best OTs I ever saw) was available, wouldn't he be worth a first round pick?

I know that RTs were thought of as road graders when running the football was more prevalent, but the above mentioned RTs could do it all. I tend to agree that RTs should rarely be picked in round 1. Again, I'm just wondering if you would make an exception under any circumstances. 

 

 

Oh if all signs point to them being an All Pro player.........you definitely can take guys like that early.     But that was a running league with a much shorter development curve for OL.........and at the same time,  when those guys were selected teams had A LOT more control over players so they could really develop young OL.   My favorite example of actually benefitting from that team control would be Ray Brown.   Great athlete for his size.......entered the league at 24.........didn't become a full time starter until age 31 and then started almost every game for the next 12 years.   Some players need a lot of time to develop and the current CBA doesn't really allow teams to do that.   A guy like that is out of the league before age 31 now.

 

In the 2020's, if they are developmental types it makes little sense to take them in round 1 or 2 because the current state of the league suggests that unless they are a proven stud like Penei Sewell they won't be ready to even be a net positive performer until year 3 or maybe not even until their walk year.

 

The Spencer Brown pick was well placed late in round 3 because of his great athleticism and size along with the uncertainty based on his background.........but it also doesn't hurt that he might be a LT as well.    

 

IMO he was a better prospect than Cody Ford..........but the Bills had a perceived "need" at RT in a poor OT draft.......so they forced it despite a crying need at a premium $ position with DK Metcalf and AJ Brown still on the board.   Fortunately the Diggs trade paid off last year,    but it would be nice to have that kind of player on a $2M deal instead of a $14M deal(which is actually bargain right now).

 

I'm all for drafting a top LT prospect in round 1.   After that,  I like what the Bills did THIS year........which was to draft two raw but talented tackles in 3 and 5 and a nice guard prospect in Anderson late.   If you only get a year or two of good, cheap play out of a couple of them, then that's not such a bad return on the relatively modest investment.

 

I'm also a fan of signing guards and centers in UFA if your Jack Anderson's don't pan out.    Take advantage of some other team putting in the development time there.  The supply is usually good at those spots in UFA and the price is usually right. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Anyone check out how Andre Dillard’s career is goin? That was a draft darling I will never understand. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

This news will not please the all-time Jason Peters hater @PromoTheRobot.............he still thinks the Bills handled that situation well.