Chaos Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 The word is "Fame" not "Great" or "Elite". Guys like Kurt Warner and Frank Gore have the fame factor. 1
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 I've never liked the "tell the story of the NFL" argument for choosing HOFers. For example, why on earth would a player as fascinating as Ryan Fitzpatrick, the ultimate journeyman QB, be left out of the story of the NFL? That would be a major omission. So is Fitz a HOFer? As a unique player and the story he brought to the league? The answer would be, Yes. He's first ballot in that regard. On ability and talent compared to his peers? He wouldn't even make a wall of fame for a team let alone the be nominated for the HOF. I would love to see Fitz make it to the HOF. And if he were, that would truly be going the route of "can you tell the story of the NFL without them or not". 2 1
HardyBoy Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Victory Formation said: He was a great back, although I think his YPC is a bit lower than it would have been had he played in a different offense. The Colts ran the wishbone and single back formations quite a bit because it opened up options for Peyton by spreading the ball around and by giving him multiple receiver options. For power running teams, I think these are weak formations to run the ball out of, but it’s better for pass happy teams. Edge was good. Consistently good, similarly to the way Curtis Martin was, 4-yds and a cloud of dust. I think consistency and longevity says something. For this reason I think Gore will get in someday as well. I think you’re undervaluing Curtis Martin. He individually destroyed the bills in at least a few games over the course of his career. Man the AFC East was loaded at RB for a while in the late 90s through mid 2000s…Curtis Martin, Ricky Williams in his prime, Antwone Smith for a brief time, Travis Henry was pretty solid. Edited August 13, 2021 by HardyBoy
HardyBoy Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rush_yds_career.htm This is decently crazy. There have been just over 200 players who have ever rushed for at least 4,000 career yards in the nfl. Edge James ran for over 10k yards in 10 seasons, which is pretty wild looking at that chart. He did that as part of arguably the leagues best passing offense ever. 1
Malazan Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 On 8/7/2021 at 5:36 PM, RobbRiddick said: I'd have to look at his stats but from memory he was Hall of Very Good. I've had this problem for a while now, a lot of guys get in who I don't think should, but that's just me. I think the HOF should be the absolute best of the best, the real legends, if that means less people going in so be it. I had the same problem as you did, but someone pointed out it's the "Hall of Fame", not the "Hall of Very Good", not the "Hall of the Very Best Stats" or anything else. So the problem that many people have isn't that such and such player "deserves" to be in the "Hall of Fame", but that a different "Hall" is desired all together.
DrDawkinstein Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) Again... RYAN FITZPATRICK FOR THE HALL OF FAME! 13 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: I've never liked the "tell the story of the NFL" argument for choosing HOFers. For example, why on earth would a player as fascinating as Ryan Fitzpatrick, the ultimate journeyman QB, be left out of the story of the NFL? That would be a major omission. So is Fitz a HOFer? As a unique player and the story he brought to the league? The answer would be, Yes. He's first ballot in that regard. On ability and talent compared to his peers? He wouldn't even make a wall of fame for a team let alone the be nominated for the HOF. I would love to see Fitz make it to the HOF. And if he were, that would truly be going the route of "can you tell the story of the NFL without them or not". Yes. For the exact reasons you state. He's played on, and started for, over 25% of the teams in the NFL. And EVERY fan base loves him. He absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Edited August 13, 2021 by DrDawkinstein
RyanC883 Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/8/2021 at 7:22 AM, GunnerBill said: That has always been my test. It is the Hall of Fame the key characters in the league's story should be in. I think key individuals plus legendary career. Eli is too much two huge flash in the pans to an otherwise average career.
Rico Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 9:16 PM, Chaos said: The word is "Fame" not "Great" or "Elite". Guys like Kurt Warner and Frank Gore have the fame factor. Nothing against Frank Gore, but how is he famous? Marshawn Lynch / Beast Mode, yes.
Chaos Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 Just now, Rico said: Nothing against Frank Gore, but how is he famous? Marshawn Lynch / Beast Mode, yes. Is there any serious football fan over the age of thirty who does not know who Frank Gore is?
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 7:24 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said: Andre Reed was a compiler. I’d argue Thurman Thomas was too. A couple of highlight seasons, but in general he was a compiler on rushing and got in on scrimmage yards. Yeah? So was Bruce Smith. Would he be the all-time sack leader if he didn't play for 18 years? No, but that doesn't matter. Health & longevity are as equally as important as any other physical skill set and should ALWAYS be considered when discussing a players overall ability. 💯
Rico Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, Chaos said: Is there any serious football fan over the age of thirty who does not know who Frank Gore is? He’s played a long time and he’s run for a lot of yards. Can you name at least one signature game he had or play he made? Maybe I just forgot.
Chaos Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rico said: He’s played a long time and he’s run for a lot of yards. Can you name at least one signature game he had or play he made? Maybe I just forgot. Famous = people knowing you are. Frank Gore is famous among football fans. Its not really a complicated concept.
Rico Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Chaos said: Famous = people knowing you are. Frank Gore is famous among football fans. Its not really a complicated concept. I think when they show the list of all-time leading rushers in NFL history that more fans are surprised he’s there. Emmitt Smith? ‘ Yeah.’ Walter Payton? ‘Sure.’ Frank Gore? ‘What?’ Edited August 18, 2021 by Rico
Norcalbillsfan Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/7/2021 at 4:15 PM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: The interesting one will be Frank Gore. Was Gore ever elite? Maybe one year? But he has like 17,000 scrimmage yards. HOF worthy IMO. But never a guy who was really elite. He probably gets in. Not by being elite but staying competitive for as long he has is impressive.
Brennan Huff Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 7:24 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said: Andre Reed was a compiler. I’d argue Thurman Thomas was too. A couple of highlight seasons, but in general he was a compiler on rushing and got in on scrimmage yards.
Nelius Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 He might be right on the...edge (cringe)...but he belongs. He's got more rushing yards than Thurman. He had 3,262 rushing yards his first two years! Led the league both seasons. He was a monster when he first came into the league. He preceded AP in terms of entering the league and just instantly being the scariest back. Heck, Pro Football Reference which are much smarter than you or I when it comes to this stuff have a HOF Meter index that compiles all relevant stats to gauge a guy's chances for making the Hall, and Edge is right there at the cut off, so it seems that he's there statistically. I further agree that longevity, durability, etc. also do count. Curtis Martin was the perfect example before Gore. There are probably less than 10 RBs who were out of this world electric for more than a couple of years tops, so being very good for a decade+ is definitely worth something. MLB is getting even worse at this imo to go off on a wild tangent, They're apparently even reviving a couple of committees to comb back through players that didn't get into the Hall, to see if they belong now apparently. Harold Baines? Now that's a hall of very good. Edge is arguably a top 10 RB of all time - he may just crack the list for sure, but he's orbiting around the 9th/10th spot. That's worth something. He's a step above McCoy, in my personal opinion, who jumps Corey Dillon and Fred Taylor as the ultimate borderline RB candidate that will never get in.
Nelius Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 Will add that if it's at all about "the story of the NFL" more so than stats and rings, then Marshawn should be an absolute lock. Doubtful, but I think he was more impactful/legendary than McCoy, Taylor, Dillon, etc.
Nelius Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/8/2021 at 5:48 AM, BillMafia716ix said: Edgerrin James getting in pretty much makes LeSean McCoy a lock for canton. Fred Taylor needs some consideration as well. I think of this differently. He's got better stats than both of them, and is likely the new floor, so now neither of them are getting in. Other HOF backs other than Thurman that have fewer yards than Edgerrin James - Marcus Allen, Franco Harris, John Riggins, OJ Simpson. And then also Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, Steven Jackson, etc. etc. If they're going to keep accepting RBs then he's clearly the best choice right now.
Rico Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 12 hours ago, Nelius said: Will add that if it's at all about "the story of the NFL" more so than stats and rings, then Marshawn should be an absolute lock. Doubtful, but I think he was more impactful/legendary than McCoy, Taylor, Dillon, etc. Beast Mode would be 1st-ballot for me.
eball Posted August 18, 2021 Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) On 8/12/2021 at 7:24 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said: I’d argue Thurman Thomas was too. A couple of highlight seasons, but in general he was a compiler on rushing and got in on scrimmage yards. Umm, Thurman led the league from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons. Who else has done that? (Hint: nobody) He was also a big time playoff performer. Compiler my arse. Frank Gore is the ultimate compiler. Edited August 18, 2021 by eball 1
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