Rochesterfan Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said: Agree with everything you state from a contract and dollar standpoint. I agree McD likely thinks more of Edmunds than I do. I just don't see a top 5 MLB on tape. I'd take my chances and make him prove me wrong. In two years time Hughes, Morse, Beasley, Hyde and Star will be off the team. That frees up cash leaving only Diggs, Oliver, and hopefully Ford to pay. Obviously a few free agents and good drafts to backfill those players will be needed too. The problem as was stated by the guys from SPOTRAC is that off ball LBs are the fastest growing position group for salaries outside of QB. With the recent signing and the projected signings coming up next year - they are projecting the off ball LB (Edmunds and Milano) to see an AAV of 20+ million. Part of that is the new deals from this off season and part is things like Edmunds and his 5th year option. So the point being made is if you can get a deal done now (ahead of other guys) you have a shot at 13 million AAV plus spreading bonuses over the 2+ years. If you wait until next year or after the 5th year option - you are looking at an AAV of 19-24 million depending upon timing and tags used. If the Bills FO wants to sign him - now is the time - waiting will likely price him out of what they can afford. My guess is if he isn’t next - they will be looking to draft a replacement because 20+ million is to much, but by even next year - 13 million would slot him into 5-10th when the extension starts and 15th - 20th as it concludes. Early also gives more flexibility in the signing structure - whereas waiting like Milano reduces the options you have. I can understand the trepidation- it just comes down to - is he in their long term (4-5 yr) plans or not. If he is - you work to sign him now to save long term. If he isn’t or you are unsure - you begin to plan for life without him.
NewEra Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, SCBills said: He’s a polarizing player, no doubt. Opposing fans, media, other teams coaches/execs, all think he’s a stud. Many of us who watch him every day have concerns. He’s a risky signing, but one that could massively pay off given Edmunds potential and age. I absolutely get why people are opposed, but you know, and I know, he’s likely getting re-signed… might as well get ahead of it… because if it clicks this year, Edmunds is getting PAID. I don’t necessarily feel that way. The price tag for the position has gone up and, because of his physical attributes (which are other worldly) and age, he’s the type of player that teams would break the bank for. I don’t see why he would sign for under 15M aav prior to hitting free agency. That puts Beane in a predicament. He hasn’t shown that he’s worth 15M aav yet. It’s a roll of the dice at this point whether he ever will bens It surely seems like they believe in Edmunds…..but they are also professionals, so I have faith that they see the problems that I see with extending him now (main problem being that he hasn’t shown to be worth that kind of money yet).
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: You’re a day late. He surrendered the title yesterday. I see your point, but I tend to think that Isaiah McKenzie is now Donald Duck, while Josh Allen is now Scrooge McDuck. Both eminently recognizable, both vital parts of the whole. 🎶Duck Tales, woo hoo!🎵
ghostwriter Posted August 7, 2021 Author Posted August 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, SCBills said: He’s a polarizing player, no doubt. Opposing fans, media, other teams coaches/execs, all think he’s a stud. Many of us who watch him every day have concerns. He’s a risky signing, but one that could massively pay off given Edmunds potential and age. I absolutely get why people are opposed, but you know, and I know, he’s likely getting re-signed… might as well get ahead of it… because if it clicks this year, Edmunds is getting PAID. Paid by who? Hopefully not by us, unless he has a breakout season and everything finally comes together for him. I will also say, as much as opposing fans and members of the media gloat about him, who watches him more? He is a solid player, no doubt, but I find his lack of sacks, INTs, FF and TFL to be disturbing. Those are stats I put a high value on for LBs. Once again, he is good. Mainly because of his size and athleticism, he has a freakish blend of speed and power, but mentally and as far as instincts go, he is very subpar in these areas, which I think matters just as much if not more than athleticism. Edmunds makes wrong read after wrong read, he is constantly fooled by QBs and offenses, the only reason he is considered good is because he has so much God given talent that he can make up for it athletically when he’s out of position. Is he an elite player? No. If he is willing to take a midrange contract like Milano, would I keep him? Yes. Over time the game may slow down for him a bit, so certainly I think there would be some considerable upside that would make such a contract worthwhile. If it is in the realm of $10M-$12M a year, I think there’s great value there. Anything more than that I would absolutely not go for though. 2
Ethan in Cleveland Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: Paid by who? Hopefully not by us, unless he has a breakout season and everything finally comes together for him. I will also say, as much as opposing fans and members of the media gloat about him, who watches him more? He is a solid player, no doubt, but I find his lack of sacks, INTs, FF and TFL to be disturbing. Those are stats I put a high value on for LBs. Once again, he is good. Mainly because of his size and athleticism, he has a freakish blend of speed and power, but mentally and as far as instincts go, he is very subpar in these areas, which I think matters just as much if not more than athleticism. Edmunds makes wrong read after wrong read, he is constantly fooled by QBs and offenses, the only reason he is considered good is because he has so much God given talent that he can make up for it athletically when he’s out of position. Is he an elite player? No. If he is willing to take a midrange contract like Milano, would I keep him? Yes. Over time the game may slow down for him a bit, so certainly I think there would be some considerable upside that would make such a contract worthwhile. If it is in the realm of $10M-$12M a year, I think there’s great value there. Anything more than that I would absolutely not go for though. Agree. When I watch the games he is at best the fourth worst player on defense after CB#2, NT, and DE#2. Even nickel CB made more impactful plays than Edmunds. He plays becuase he was a first round pick, he is still learning, and they have no one else to play MLB. If he balls out this year then the Bills will be set with the cornerstone of their defense for another 5 to 8 years. And they should pay him like Wagner gets paid. I just have not seen him play to that level. As for replacing him, next year's draft might be a year too early. They will need a center, a NT, and a safety will be my guess. 2
ghostwriter Posted August 7, 2021 Author Posted August 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Agree. When I watch the games he is at best the fourth worst player on defense after CB#2, NT, and DE#2. Even nickel CB made more impactful plays than Edmunds. He plays becuase he was a first round pick, he is still learning, and they have no one else to play MLB. If he balls out this year then the Bills will be set with the cornerstone of their defense for another 5 to 8 years. And they should pay him like Wagner gets paid. I just have not seen him play to that level. As for replacing him, next year's draft might be a year too early. They will need a center, a NT, and a safety will be my guess. I think it’s important to have a smart football team. Especially at QB, WR, S and LB. I cannot emphasize that enough. Some positions it matters little, but smart players are coachable. Smart players stay in position, take the right gaps or find soft spots in defenses etc. Having a player like Edmunds that is just so far behind the curve mentally is a huge liability for any defense. I think your MLB and your safeties are the brains and command centers of the operations. These men are responsible for getting your whole defense lined up in the right spot. Coverages, formations, gap assignments etc. Once again, I value smart players over athletic freaks who lack a grasp of the game and killer instincts and as far as killer instincts go, you either have that or you don’t, it cannot be coached. Smart teams, well coached teams will beat out talented teams with dumb players every time. 1
ColoradoBills Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) I get a feeling that we will regret not having McKenzie and Obada on 3 year cheap contracts. They are going to cost a lot more next year to keep. Diggs will get his extension after next season when they also know what is happening with Edmunds. Edited August 7, 2021 by ColoradoBills
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 17 hours ago, Victory Formation said: I know it’s early, but to me, it has to be Stefon Diggs. Yes, he’s only been here a year, but he’s outperformed his contract. 127 catches 1,535 yards. You don’t mess with that. Clearly these two have great chemistry together and are elite talents in their own right. This is a Montana to Rice situation, or a Manning to Harrison situation and so on so forth. Diggs deserves to be paid top 3 money. Am I a year early on this? Maybe, maybe not but Diggs has had great production going back to 2015-2016 in Minnesota. In the salary cap era, you must choose wisely who you pay and who you don’t pay and I think WR is one of those positions that you do pay, especially when it’s a WR of Stefon Digg’s caliber. Last year was not a fluke in any way. He dominates even elite corners. I think whenever you have a star QB/WR pairing in the NFL, you need to do everything you can to keep that together. Allen is great, but this offense wouldn’t be nowhere near what it is without Diggs. Pay the man his $18M or his $19M/yr or whatever it is because he’s earned it. If Diggs were to go down, I think our offense would struggle. Diggs is already on a pretty hefty contract from Minnesota. I would pick Gabe Davis. I think eventually he becomes a number 1 or top tier number 2 guy in a couple years.
NewEra Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 49 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I get a feeling that we will regret not having McKenzie and Obada on 3 year cheap contracts. They are going to cost a lot more next year to keep. Diggs will get his extension after next season when they also know what is happening with Edmunds. Who’s to say they wanted cheap 3 year contracts? Cheap 3 year contracts usually offer very little in regards to gtd money. Like maybe 1.3 years worth of salary gtd. It’s more beneficial for them, imo, to bet on themselves and prove that they are worth more rather than take such small gtd money and be locked up for 3 years making pennies during their prime. 14 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said: Diggs is already on a pretty hefty contract from Minnesota. I would pick Gabe Davis. I think eventually he becomes a number 1 or top tier number 2 guy in a couple years. But he’s not “next up”……unless the other potential targets fall on their faces and we don’t sign any of them to extensions. Unlikely 1
ColoradoBills Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: Who’s to say they wanted cheap 3 year contracts? Cheap 3 year contracts usually offer very little in regards to gtd money. Like maybe 1.3 years worth of salary gtd. It’s more beneficial for them, imo, to bet on themselves and prove that they are worth more rather than take such small gtd money and be locked up for 3 years making pennies during their prime. I guess it's all opinion but I think McKenzie would of jumped on a 3 year $8M contract.
NewEra Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I guess it's all opinion but I think McKenzie would of jumped on a 3 year $8M contract. Maybe. I would’ve been happy with that as a fan. I love mckenzie and, like you, really hope he’s a bill long term. He’s the face of the franchise
BillsShredder83 Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 Have we paid Chris Kelsey anything in a while? That lunchpails gotta be getting musty smelling
MarlinTheMagician Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 Edmunds played hurt last year. The year before showed what he can do. Now would be a great time to sign him, before he plays up to the money he would command elsewhere. I am obviously a Tremaine supporter, but everything I have ever read says he has the same work ethic as Allen and Milano. And he has the physical attributes. I would not sign Diggs until he complains. Sign him now and you risk him becoming disenchanted when the cap rises.
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: I guess it's all opinion but I think McKenzie would of jumped on a 3 year $8M contract. He certainly deserves it. A multi-gadget player that covers multiple positions should be paid accordingly IMO.
ColoradoBills Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 1 minute ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said: He certainly deserves it. A multi-gadget player that covers multiple positions should be paid accordingly IMO. Yep. I looked at the 2022 FA list and his name jumped out as the guy I wouldn't want to go test the market. Contracts are not redone a lot during a season but his might be an exception if he starts out hot. 1
buffaloboyinATL Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 20 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Duke Williams? Christian Wade? Idk...the options are endless. You forgot Kumerow.
Paup 1995MVP Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 23 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I'd lock down Diggs as soon as he wants a new deal. That said, Edmunds is most likely the next one to get done. Edmunds has not even been very good, let alone elite. (I don't want to hear he made two Pro Bowls. Big deal. The proof is on the field. And he has not been a stud) I would not have picked up his 5th year option. But lets see what he can do when he is healthy. Its time for him to dominate. He does that he will get his long term deal. Fingers crossed. 1
Canadian Bills Fan Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 Diggs. For me its not even close. I understand people thinking and wanting Edmunds but I am not a fan of paying him the salary he will command as a FA. I know hes steady for us, but if Im giving $10M+ per year to a LB, they need to be a game changer. Has Edmunds proven that? Serious question. I know he is good and reliable but think about some of the great LB's out there, is he in their company? TJ Watt--$10M per year Mack--$14.6M/year Jaylon Smith--$938M/ year Devin White is at $8.1M this year but next year goes to $938M Is Edmunds comparable to these players? I dont think so. At least not IMO I would love it if the price was right but We signed Milano for $7.8M a year so I can imagine Edmunds wanting at least $10M a year
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