ghostwriter Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Logic said: Wins are not a QB stat. The 2000 Ravens went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB. The 2002 Buccaneers went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl with Brad Johnson at QB. The 1985 Bears went 15-1 and won the Super Bowl with Jim McMahon at QB. Surely Dilfer and Johnson must be great QBs, and McMahon must be the greatest of all time, right? Football is a team game. There are 22 starters and 53 players in all on an NFL roster. Wins are not a QB stat. Now if you want to talk about QBR, QB rating, Completion percentage, touchdowns, turnovers, ANy/A, etc...have at it. But wins? Not a QB stat. Here’s the thing. Of all those teams you listed, they had near HOF players at every position outside of QB. Not to mention, all of these players got hot at the right time. What happens if one of your star players becomes lazy? Ala Dareus & Haynesworth? How many dynasties are there amongst the teams you’ve listed? Give me the star QB, give me the star WR, the star DE, the star CB and maybe the star LB or TE to boot. Give me meat and potato type guys at every other position and simply draft well and replenish. Dynasties are built around QBs. Pay the man his $43M and in 3 or 4 years, give him a raise. Even if Allen gets injured and we bomb out a year, this way provides more long term sustainability. It’s up to Beane to build around Allen and that will happen primarily through the draft.
Logic Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, snowbelt_subie said: We are talking about winning consistently throughout a career. Not having a great season or being carried by an elite defense that can only happen in short periods. Those are definitely outlier one season stretches. Consistency? Matthew Stafford has played 12 NFL seasons, during which he has thrown for over 45,000 yards, 282 TDs, and has been selected to the Pro Bowl. His addition to the Rams currently has them positioned with the seventh best odds to win the Super Bowl. His career record is 74-90-1. Not enough for you? Dan Fouts had a 15 year career, during which he threw for over 43,000 yards, 254 TDs, was a six time Pro Bowler and two-time 1st team All-Pro, and was elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. His career record is 86-84-1. Barely over .500. Wins are not a QB stat. 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: Here’s the thing. Of all those teams you listed, they had near HOF players at every position outside of QB. Not to mention, all of these players got hot at the right time. What happens if one of your star players becomes lazy? Ala Dareus & Haynesworth? How many dynasties are there amongst the teams you’ve listed? Give me the star QB, give me the star WR, the star DE, the star CB and maybe the star LB or TE to boot. Give me meat and potato type guys at every other position and simply draft well and replenish. Dynasties are built around QBs. Pay the man his $43M and in 3 or 4 years, give him a raise. Even if Allen gets injured and we bomb out a year, this way provides more long term sustainability. It’s up to Beane to build around Allen and that will happen primarily through the draft. I don't think anyone here disagrees with the above. But even so, there are 45 other guys on the Gameday roster who have to do their job, and do it reasonably well, or the wins won't happen. That's the point Logic was making, in response to a chappie who thinks Lamar Jackson should get a bigger contract than Allen because "he has more wins".
RaoulDuke79 Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 30 minutes ago, snowbelt_subie said: Oh I forgot we were in English class 😅. You always know the ***** who brings out grammar has nothing to bring to the conversation. I understand your frustration, but in an attempt to make a point it helps to put together a coherent sentence. I don't have anything to bring to the table, but our QB might be the best there is right now https://youtu.be/t0pcAx049kM 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Logic said: Consistency? Matthew Stafford has played 12 NFL seasons, during which he has thrown for over 45,000 yards, 282 TDs, and has been selected to the Pro Bowl. His addition to the Rams currently has them positioned with the seventh best odds to win the Super Bowl. His career record is 74-90-1. Not enough for you? Dan Fouts had a 15 year career, during which he threw for over 43,000 yards, 254 TDs, was a six time Pro Bowler and two-time 1st team All-Pro, and was elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. His career record is 86-84-1. Barely over .500. Wins are not a QB stat. Philip Rivers. Warren Moon. Archie Manning. 1
njbuff Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 How is Josh Allen making more than Mitch Trubisky? 😁 1
FLFan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Funny, you brought up the "wins are a QB stat" in response to a reply to this: I guess wins must not be a QB stat for Lamar then, either, since we're only talking about one "great season" and he's been supported by the #2 or #3 defense on points? That's how this works, right? Don’t confuse him with logic.
Seoulofstone Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 55 minutes ago, SCBills said: Shes been heavy on the Bills/Allen bandwagon this past year. I don’t care what she thought years ago. Even though she's now doubting a different group of young Bills players? I guess some people embrace negative opinions.
Norcalbillsfan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 6 hours ago, HappyDays said: We've waited two decades for this news. Very happy they got it done before Jackson and Mayfield. I don't even care what the numbers look like. Agreed, now the browns and ravens are sweating. They are gonna have to pay their qbs the same or probably more for guys that aren't showing as bright as a future as Allen. 2
Malazan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Norcalbillsfan said: Agreed, now the browns and ravens are sweating. They are gonna have to pay their qbs the same or probably more for guys that aren't showing as bright as a future as Allen. I went to their forums...the vitriol against Allen and this deal are surprising. I get the feeling they are not as confident in paying their guys similar deals.
snowbelt_subie Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 23 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said: I understand your frustration, but in an attempt to make a point it helps to put together a coherent sentence. I don't have anything to bring to the table, but our QB might be the best there is right now https://youtu.be/t0pcAx049kM its a bills forum sorry i am not worried about sentence structure and punctuation. most of the people here are probably half brain dead from jumping through tables anyways. 😆 2 1 1 1
Norcalbillsfan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 37 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Getting this deal done shows how well run things are over at OBD these days. It’s just one less thing the team needs to worry about. There was a time the Bills would have never offered such a contract. Haven't had a guy near the potential as Allen to offer a contract too. But I agree things are well run, especially with the covid cap.
Seoulofstone Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, snowbelt_subie said: All 3 young qbs will get paid they will all be similar deals. let the chips fall where they may over the next 5 years. i am sure they will all beat each other at some point will any beat mahomes? who knows I'm not convinced you're a Bills fan. My guess is KC? So it's true that those QBs haven't beaten Mahomes yet. But it's not a huge sample size in a 3 year period in which KC have been dominant. I could say none of the other QBs have lost a SB. I could say none of the other QBs have had Andy Reid as coach. I could say we've never seen Mahomes carry a bad team. Were you impressed with him in the SB?I was sorely disappointed. These statements are also true but ultimately who cares? Mahomes is a damn good player. What watching the Bills over the last few years should tell you is that things can and do change. Just keep getting better. Edited August 6, 2021 by Seoulofstone
Wizard Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 Glad he is signed! Hope Beane and Company can get cheap players around him to keep the Super Bowl window open longer. Great news…still that is a lot of quiche!
Seoulofstone Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 Congratulations to Josh and the Bills organization. Can't wait for the season.
snowbelt_subie Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said: Agreed, now the browns and ravens are sweating. They are gonna have to pay their qbs the same or probably more for guys that aren't showing as bright as a future as Allen. just the money is crazy the going rate for QB's is increasing so fast. just back in 2018 everyone thought cousins deal 3 years for 84 million was nutz now i am not sure what 28 mil per year would get you ?
Norcalbillsfan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said: I went to their forums...the vitriol against Allen and this deal are surprising. I get the feeling they are not as confident in paying their guys similar deals. It does surprise me that many do criticize the deal. This day in age in the NFL you find an elite passing qb you have to pay him what he wants, there's no way around it. Commit to him and he Commits to the bills. If I was a ravens or browns fan I would be salty too, cuz the bar is set and neither qb has shown they are elite passers yet. But they are good enough to demand big contracts from qb needy teams. So they will get paid big while there's still question marks about them. 2
FLFan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, snowbelt_subie said: just the money is crazy the going rate for QB's is increasing so fast. just back in 2018 everyone thought cousins deal 3 years for 84 million was nutz now i am not sure what 28 mil per year would get you ? Probably would still get you Cousins. 2 3
Norcalbillsfan Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, snowbelt_subie said: just the money is crazy the going rate for QB's is increasing so fast. just back in 2018 everyone thought cousins deal 3 years for 84 million was nutz now i am not sure what 28 mil per year would get you ? It is crazy, makes you wonder what a player like mahomes or Allen will sign for 10 years from now. 1
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