Afghanistan

[oldmanfan]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

Come on, man. Dude was at Camp.David.   They got all the President stuff there.  He could even blow a nuke off from there if he wanted to.

 

Besides, its what presidents often do when some foreign policy hubub is going on.  Like President George Herbert Walker Bush was out riding around in his cigarette boat during Operation Desert Storm.

I know we disagree on Afghan policy but thanks for writing this.  The same folks criticizing him being in Camp David (which he should not have done in my opinion, but as you say correctly he had all the ability to manage things from there) had absolutely no problem with Trump sitting his fat ass on a golf cart when important events occurred.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Come on, man. Dude was at Camp.David.   They got all the President stuff there.  He could even blow a nuke off from there if he wanted to.

 

Besides, its what presidents often do when some foreign policy hubub is going on.  Like President George Herbert Walker Bush was out riding around in his cigarette boat during Operation Desert Storm. Gives the impression he is so confident in his plan he's not even worried about it.  An old president trick.

Plus he probably didn’t even know he was on vacation or at camp David. He probably thought he was riding a  Chattanooga choo choo to Delaware  for some vanilla bean ice cream… 

[BillStime]

Funny how the America first President didn’t have the balls to bring our troops home on his watch…

 

Yet here he is bragging about his deal that no one could stop…

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by BillStime

[Frat-Train]

Hate something long enough, it consumes you completely, until you become that very hatred.  I feel sincerely bad for the people that are so fixated on Trump that they no longer possess objectivity or reasoning.  He will be their eternal scapegoat, while all that he’s accused of (brash comments, financial concerns, policies, people-shaming, inciting) can easily be seen in the current administration’s actions, with an impartial eye.
 

Every once in a while, a situation comes along that there truly aren’t two sides to stand on.  There’s just one.  I see it argued here with incredible fascist-like vigor, on the need to mandate vaccines (by so-called opposers of fascism).  In this case however, Afghanistan is absolutely a single-side perspective.  Biden didn’t follow Trumps plan.  He’s on record saying before this, that he wouldn’t.  So only ones prejudices towards Trump would allow them to blame him for Biden’s most current error.  
 

It’s easy to see that some of you, a handful or so, are no longer able to objectively see anything due to the consuming nature of your hatred fixation towards a no-longer sitting President.  And to blame a past President, for the continued and egregious mistakes of a current sitting President, is not just stupid, it’s proof that if you willingly sip from the same crap-filled trough for long enough, you’ll believe it when they tell you it’s yoo-hoo.

 

President Biden has failed across the board.  It’s undebatable and undeniable to anyone that’s voted for him and beyond.  No need to project yourselves any further.  He’s failed, as has his administration.

[ComradeKayAdams]

12 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

So my thought all along is the reason why there have not been any major coordinated attacks is because we've kept them busy fighting our soldiers there vs our civilians here. 

 

I think it has way more to do with the fact that the U.S. intelligence community became much better at their jobs after 9/11: improvements in immigration vetting processes, stronger communication between different intelligence agencies, and better collaboration with other countries. The widespread adoption of social media since the mid-2000’s has also made terrorist activities more transparent. And no, none of this should be interpreted as any endorsement of Patriot Act mischief!

 

The specious war theory that “we fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here” validates all sorts of horrible aggressive acts. The notion that we can just funnel terror like that also doesn’t hold up, for example, when you take our allies into consideration who are not separated from Muslim countries by oceans (see: Syria, mid-2010’s, effects of European migration crisis). Our military presence in Muslim countries like Afghanistan is doing nothing productive for us in the long-term war on terror. It is the primary source of recruitment for radical Islamic terrorism. But even if we immediately evacuated all of our Middle East military bases, our propping up of various dictatorships and monarchies like the House of Saud still fosters extreme discontent among oppressed Muslims.

 

Sort of my main thesis here: American empire, in whatever manifestation, creates unwanted blowback such as radical Islamic terrorism. My solution: stop all forms of regime change, stop all coups, stop all unilateral embargos and sanctions, no banana republics either, keep emerging Chinese imperialism (they’re doing it in a unique way…with indebtedness through infrastructure projects) in check with multilateral trade deals, stop carrying out ~95% of drone strikes, close down ~75% of all U.S. military bases worldwide for starters, and immediately trim ~33% of the defense budget (which would still be double China’s). Use that money to reinvest in America. Make America the best domestic version of itself and thus the envy of the rest of the world. Spread American ideals abroad by way of example, living as awesome peaceful people and not greedy bullies. Pro-democracy and pro-capitalism revolutions are almost always best carried out by a country’s own citizens. We can inspire and encourage from afar, but their internal will must be there.

 

 

7 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Reportedly Billions of dollars in weapons left behind. 

 

the whole thing is so odd, unprofessional and poorly executed. 
 

Then “surprise” gotta send thousands of troops back in to the now completely destabilized mess.  
 

Commander in chief looks pretty bad on this one, even if you’re normally programmed by their msm. 

 

Yeah, there’s something very convenient about such a poorly executed troop withdrawal like the one we’re seeing. It showcases the human rights horror potential of the opposing regime in rapid succession. This can generate a humanitarian-themed rallying effect among the American public for returning troops. The military-industrial complex knows that war has become increasingly unpopular with the American people since the mid-2000’s, so maybe this is their new way of perpetuating the racket. Or maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight. I dunno. I feel like I’m taking CRAZY PILLS. Sociopathic oligarchs don’t think like the rest of us, so I don’t want to put it past them. We do have conclusive evidence that the government has misled us throughout the Afghanistan conflict (see: SIGAR Afghanistan Papers, 2019, Washington Post).

[BillStime]

5 minutes ago, Frat-Train said:

Hate something long enough, it consumes you completely, until you become that very hatred.  I feel sincerely bad for the people that are so fixated on Trump that they no longer possess objectivity or reasoning.  He will be their eternal scapegoat, while all that he’s accused of (brash comments, financial concerns, policies, people-shaming, inciting) can easily be seen in the current administration’s actions, with an impartial eye.
 

Every once in a while, a situation comes along that there truly aren’t two sides to stand on.  There’s just one.  I see it argued here with incredible fascist-like vigor, on the need to mandate vaccines (by so-called opposers of fascism).  In this case however, Afghanistan is absolutely a single-side perspective.  Biden didn’t follow Trumps plan.  He’s on record saying before this, that he wouldn’t.  So only ones prejudices towards Trump would allow them to blame him for Biden’s most current error.  
 

It’s easy to see that some of you, a handful or so, are no longer able to objectively see anything due to the consuming nature of your hatred fixation towards a no-longer sitting President.  And to blame a past President, for the continued and egregious mistakes of a current sitting President, is not just stupid, it’s proof that if you willingly sip from the same crap-filled trough for long enough, you’ll believe it when they tell you it’s yoo-hoo.

 

President Biden has failed across the board.  It’s undebatable and undeniable to anyone that’s voted for him and beyond.  No need to project yourselves any further.  He’s failed, as has his administration.

@Deranged Rhino in da house!!! 
 

Of course you won’t acknowledge the art of the deal Trump struck with the Taliban…

 

Trump released now President of the Taliban Afghanistan in 2018…

 

Trump ordered the release of 5000 Taliban prisoners in 2020…

 

Just like you wouldn’t acknowledge what happened here:

 

@Frat-Train is a fraud.

[Frat-Train]

9 minutes ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

I think it has way more to do with the fact that the U.S. intelligence community became much better at their jobs after 9/11: improvements in immigration vetting processes, stronger communication between different intelligence agencies, and better collaboration with other countries. The widespread adoption of social media since the mid-2000’s has also made terrorist activities more transparent. And no, none of this should be interpreted as any endorsement of Patriot Act mischief!

 

The specious war theory that “we fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here” validates all sorts of horrible aggressive acts. The notion that we can just funnel terror like that also doesn’t hold up, for example, when you take our allies into consideration who are not separated from Muslim countries by oceans (see: Syria, mid-2010’s, effects of European migration crisis). Our military presence in Muslim countries like Afghanistan is doing nothing productive for us in the long-term war on terror. It is the primary source of recruitment for radical Islamic terrorism. But even if we immediately evacuated all of our Middle East military bases, our propping up of various dictatorships and monarchies like the House of Saud still fosters extreme discontent among oppressed Muslims.

 

Sort of my main thesis here: American empire, in whatever manifestation, creates unwanted blowback such as radical Islamic terrorism. My solution: stop all forms of regime change, stop all coups, stop all unilateral embargos and sanctions, no banana republics either, keep emerging Chinese imperialism (they’re doing it in a unique way…with indebtedness through infrastructure projects) in check with multilateral trade deals, stop carrying out ~95% of drone strikes, close down ~75% of all U.S. military bases worldwide for starters, and immediately trim ~33% of the defense budget (which would still be double China’s). Use that money to reinvest in America. Make America the best domestic version of itself and thus the envy of the rest of the world. Spread American ideals abroad by way of example, living as awesome peaceful people and not greedy bullies. Pro-democracy and pro-capitalism revolutions are almost always best carried out by a country’s own citizens. We can inspire and encourage from afar, but their internal will must be there.

 

 

 

Yeah, there’s something very convenient about such a poorly executed troop withdrawal like the one we’re seeing. It showcases the human rights horror potential of the opposing regime in rapid succession. This can generate a humanitarian-themed rallying effect among the American public for returning troops. The military-industrial complex knows that war has become increasingly unpopular with the American people since the mid-2000’s, so maybe this is their new way of perpetuating the racket. Or maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight. I dunno. I feel like I’m taking CRAZY PILLS. Sociopathic oligarchs don’t think like the rest of us, so I don’t want to put it past them. We do have conclusive evidence that the government has misled us throughout the Afghanistan conflict (see: SIGAR Afghanistan Papers, 2019, Washington Post).

Great points.  There’s definitely some shadiness to the amount of weaponry left behind.  And the human rights turmoil that is coming is just heartbreaking.

3 minutes ago, BillStime said:

@Deranged Rhino in da house!!! 
 

Of course you won’t acknowledge the art of the deal Trump struck with the Taliban…

 

Trump released now President of the Taliban Afghanistan in 2018…

 

Trump ordered the release of 5000 Taliban prisoners in 2020…

 

Just like you wouldn’t acknowledge what happened here:

 

@Frat-Train is a fraud.

Frat-train is a Democrat, not a Rhino.  And none of that takes away from the fact you need professional help.  Seriously.  That may be the one theme this forum could all agree on, without any impartiality.  

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, Frat-Train said:

Great points.  There’s definitely some shadiness to the amount of weaponry left behind.  And the human rights turmoil that is coming is just heartbreaking.

Frat-train is a Democrat, not a Rhino.  And none of that takes away from the fact you need professional help.  Seriously.  That may be the one theme this forum could all agree on, without any impartiality.  

 

You are a fraud.

[Westside]

10 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Here’s an amazing shot from inside one of those C-17s evacuating people from Afghanistan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The biden express. What a mess!

12 minutes ago, BillStime said:

@Deranged Rhino in da house!!! 
 

Of course you won’t acknowledge the art of the deal Trump struck with the Taliban…

 

Trump released now President of the Taliban Afghanistan in 2018…

 

Trump ordered the release of 5000 Taliban prisoners in 2020…

 

Just like you wouldn’t acknowledge what happened here:

 

@Frat-Train is a fraud.

Trump Trump Trump Trump

24/7

[Frat-Train]

1 minute ago, Bidens_basement said:

The biden express. What a mess!

The fear in their faces…. 2021 America has no idea what this level of oppression is like, no matter how many young, white liberals claim otherwise.   This is just awful.

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

The biden express. What a mess!

Trump Trump Trump Trump

24/7

 

Says the freak who changed his handle from westside to bidens_basement...

 

[BillStime]

8 minutes ago, Frat-Train said:

The fear in their faces…. 2021 America has no idea what this level of oppression is like, no matter how many young, white liberals claim otherwise.   This is just awful.

 

What is something @Deranged Rhino would say for $1000, Alex

 

FEAR

[Frat-Train]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

What is something @Deranged Rhino would say for $1000, Alex

 

FEAR

I can see Deranged Rhino and Trump seem to share a 2 bedroom apartment in your brain.  Sorry to say that your wrong streak still sits at a perfect 100%.  Now back to the ignore list, sir.   

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, Frat-Train said:

I can see Deranged Rhino and Trump seem to share a 2 bedroom apartment in your brain.  Sorry to say that your wrong streak still sits at a perfect 100%.  Now back to the ignore list, sir.   

 

So threatened on all fronts today... have a great day @Deranged Rhino

 

*grin*

 

[SoCal Deek]

This board has spiraled into a tribal feud worse than many in the Middle East. Let me say thank you to those willing to ‘reach across the aisle’ and state the bloody obvious: Biden really screwed this up!
 

Is it so hard for some of you to admit it? Is it all Joe’s fault? Of course not. Was pulling out the wrong to do? Maybe. Was this done well? Absolutely not!  Are there people below the President that deserve much of the blame? Probably, depending on what they were advising the President behind closed doors. Is this the previous President’s fault (Bush, Obama, Trump)? No it definitely isn’t! 

[Irv]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This board has spiraled into a tribal feud worse than many in the Middle East. Let me say thank you to those willing to ‘reach across the aisle’ and state the bloody obvious: Biden really screwed this up!
 

Is it so hard for some of you to admit it? Is it all Joe’s fault? Of course not. Was pulling out the wrong to do? Maybe. Was this done well? Absolutely not!  Are there people below the President that deserve much of the blame? Probably, depending on what they were advising the President behind closed doors. Is this the previous President’s fault (Bush, Obama, Trump)? No it definitely isn’t! 

It’s not Biden’s fault either.  He doesn’t even know he’s President or even where he is now.  Leave him alone. What a mess.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Biden screwed the pooch on the withdrawal, no question.  The images from the airport yesterday are inexcusable.  But I will also say there’s a lot of chicken hawk people around here.  Trump was going to get us out, too.  He “negotiated” with the Taliban who no doubt laughed at us behind his back.  Trump screwed the pooch too.  Obama wanted to get us out and he screwed the pooch with Afghan policy.  And Bush started the whole damn thing and didn’t have the stones to finish it. 
 

What we have needed is for a President with the strength to say to the America people that America stands for good in the world, and that the Taliban are evil.  That we as a country stand for freedom and we will not stand by and allow women and children to be enslaved.  We should have followed the model Bush Sr.  used in Iraq.  Convince our allies of the importance of destroying the Taliban, go in with absolute overwhelming land and air forces, get the job done, and leave a force their to keep control.  We have tens of thousands of forces in Japan, Germany, South Korea to keep the peace.  This is equally important.

 

Instead we  have people on TV all day, and so many posting here ripping Biden apart as if he solely is guilt.  Rightfully so for the botched withdrawal.  But when the women and daughters of Afghanistan get killed or enslaved again, and when terrorist groups start multiplying there again, and when China buys up all the rare earth minerals there and kicks our ass economically, what it will show is a failure of administrations over the last 20 years to stand against inhumanity, and a failure of the American people to understand the responsibilities of the strongest power in the world to live up to the ideals that made it such.

 

We will be back in a Afghanistan within a year, mark my words.  And when we are forced back in, I hope we will be America again. 

 

 

You made it in 17 words before the “but”, and the old expression about “everything that comes after but” applies here.  

 

You’ve been quite vocal in your confidence in Biden’s cognitive ability in spite of some obvious signs of decline.  You’ve rationalized away his penchant for nuzzling ears, sniffing hair and taking substantial liberties with his hands when women victimized by such activity have stated loudly that it was wrong.  You’ve carried his baggage on the “Joe Knows COVID” while he twitters about with a strategy best described as “We know it’s killing people but jeeesh, what can I do, I’m just a President” while personally espousing some rather dark thoughts on how you think your fellow citizens might be treated in this country that stands for freedom.  
 

When does it stop for you, sir? 
 

While it’s entirely fair to say Afghanistan is an incredibly complex situation, the facts here are clear—a man with nearly 50 years of leadership experience at the highest levels of our government, with decades of exposure to the finest military strategists, the intelligence community, historians and the like &$@#ed whatever progress was made in 7 months.  
 

7 months.  
 

Of course, there were people who recognized that before Biden became a doddering old fool, he was a knucklehead of the highest order for most of that time.  Proud, strong  Democrat voters of the past rejected him as a serious candidate multiple times, and I’d think our parents and grandparents, mostly gone now, would look at the coronation of this simpleton and wonder “What on earth were they thinking?”. 
 

I do agree with you and @reddogblitz that the vacation is irrelevant, just as it is for every president. Sadly, I agree at some point he’ll want to send troops back in to Afghanistan because during his 50 year tenure, he’s supported the lather, rinse, repeat cycle just like a good establishment politician is prone to do. 
 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Irv said:

It’s not Biden’s fault either.  He doesn’t even know he’s President or even where he is now.  Leave him alone. What a mess.  

He did take ‘full responsibility’ though. That’s always the best way. Hilary was a master of it. 
 

What I cannot understand about the President is why does he always present himself as being mad at America? It seems like every time he steps to the microphone he’s ticked off for having to explain himself. Are ‘We The People’ bothering you Joe?

[Westside]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

 

Says the freak who changed his handle from westside to bidens_basement...

 

Says the moron with ten different names. 
 

Trump Trump Trump Trump 

24/7

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

I think it has way more to do with the fact that the U.S. intelligence community became much better at their jobs after 9/11: improvements in immigration vetting processes, stronger communication between different intelligence agencies, and better collaboration with other countries. The widespread adoption of social media since the mid-2000’s has also made terrorist activities more transparent. And no, none of this should be interpreted as any endorsement of Patriot Act mischief!

 

The specious war theory that “we fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here” validates all sorts of horrible aggressive acts. The notion that we can just funnel terror like that also doesn’t hold up, for example, when you take our allies into consideration who are not separated from Muslim countries by oceans (see: Syria, mid-2010’s, effects of European migration crisis). Our military presence in Muslim countries like Afghanistan is doing nothing productive for us in the long-term war on terror. It is the primary source of recruitment for radical Islamic terrorism. But even if we immediately evacuated all of our Middle East military bases, our propping up of various dictatorships and monarchies like the House of Saud still fosters extreme discontent among oppressed Muslims.

 

Sort of my main thesis here: American empire, in whatever manifestation, creates unwanted blowback such as radical Islamic terrorism. My solution: stop all forms of regime change, stop all coups, stop all unilateral embargos and sanctions, no banana republics either, keep emerging Chinese imperialism (they’re doing it in a unique way…with indebtedness through infrastructure projects) in check with multilateral trade deals, stop carrying out ~95% of drone strikes, close down ~75% of all U.S. military bases worldwide for starters, and immediately trim ~33% of the defense budget (which would still be double China’s). Use that money to reinvest in America. Make America the best domestic version of itself and thus the envy of the rest of the world. Spread American ideals abroad by way of example, living as awesome peaceful people and not greedy bullies. Pro-democracy and pro-capitalism revolutions are almost always best carried out by a country’s own citizens. We can inspire and encourage from afar, but their internal will must be there.

 

 

 

Yeah, there’s something very convenient about such a poorly executed troop withdrawal like the one we’re seeing. It showcases the human rights horror potential of the opposing regime in rapid succession. This can generate a humanitarian-themed rallying effect among the American public for returning troops. The military-industrial complex knows that war has become increasingly unpopular with the American people since the mid-2000’s, so maybe this is their new way of perpetuating the racket. Or maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight. I dunno. I feel like I’m taking CRAZY PILLS. Sociopathic oligarchs don’t think like the rest of us, so I don’t want to put it past them. We do have conclusive evidence that the government has misled us throughout the Afghanistan conflict (see: SIGAR Afghanistan Papers, 2019, Washington Post).

The interaction of the tin foil hat and the crazy pills are there to be certain, but I’m positive there is something we are all missing here.
 

The industrial military complex idea while certainly not an ethical or moral stretch, there is just not enough money (at least officially on the books) imo involved for what has been a protracted policing and half hearted infrastructure propping up exercise to justify this as a means to that end. And the enemy was so low tech it justified little. 
 

Weve had 13 years since the usgs dubbed the trillions of natural resources in the ground. Other than a couple barreled of oil and some boxite I’m not sure what is coming out. 
 

The poppy fields might be something but I don’t know how that turns into inflows.