Addison & Butler: just how much do their contracts matter?

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's a little over $2 million savings. I think they keep him unless the rookies just tear up preseason. 

 

Yea post 1 June according to Spotrac Addison saves $2.2m and Butler saves nothing. 

[H2o]

If Addison and Butler aren't viewed as better than the other guys then they will be traded or released outright. Beane has shown that he is not afraid to do that in his time here. It's part of the business and his business is about fielding the best team that gives us a chance to win. The cap hits are already accounted for and we have $9M+ in space at the moment. There is minimal impact to the 2022 cap if that is the way they decide to go as well. No roster spot is guaranteed for either player.  

[Matt_In_NH]

It looks like there would be a negative cap hit with Addison.  Could save 1.8ish million by cutting Butler. Given the numbers on the DL I could see Butler getting cut.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

11 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think we keep 6 DEs and 3 DTs.

 

Toss up with Hughes/Addison. Two aging, expensive vets who’s best years may be in the rear view. Do we cut loose Bam Johnson, a key cog on the ‘teams?

 

Groot, Obada, AJ, and Boogie all have experience rushing from inside, so I see the DTs being Eddy, Star, and Harry. 
 

Zimmer on the Squad with Bam (if they stick with Hughes/Addison

If you listened to Coach the other day, there's no way they're cutting Zimmer

10 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Addison appears to be mentoring the defensive ends in Buffalo. He seems to be the type of leader/mentor they want in the locker room.

 

Plus I am thinking the team is betting on him having a larger impact as a situational player rather than an every down DE.  
 

Cutting Addison would not be consistent with the moves that Beane & McDermott have made over the past few years

 

So they're cutting Hughes then?

[Rochesterfan]

 

I still believe both Butler and Addison are big time McDermott guys and if the expanded PS with extra veterans is a go as I believe it is.  I could see Beane and McD talking to 1 or both of these veteran guys and saying we want you around for leadership and to help mentor and we don’t think we can sneak those guys through - would you be willing to hit the PS and be available for call ups in specific situations?

 

They both got guaranteed money already and likely neither would get significant offers from other teams (and if they do - they can go with the teams blessings) - we will have a spot for you and maybe get some offsets back.  They are still part of an Super Bowl caliber team with potential to get them rings and most importantly if the rules sound as similar as last year - they can get a few call ups to really come in full tilt and then get a couple weeks of recovery time.

 

I think the Bills do not want to lose their experience, but that would give them a way of keeping the young guys protected and maintain their experience around those guys.  Plus they have a relationship with Beane and McD - that can help in these cases and if either gets poached - it does not kill you long term.

[Craig Oi]

My thoughts regarding the locker room and topic. It's clear to me that they value the "little guy" that comes out of obscurity and performs. If "little guy"  Zimmer clearly outperforms Butler and gets cut because of a contract , how well does that go over? To further my point we are clearly keeping all the kids and if Obada clearly is their 4th best DE on the team. Addison is the leader it appears, Johnson has value on teams and then there's Hughes who is not getting sneaked on the practice squad and  still has some trade value. Do we roll with 5 linebackers cut Taiwan and keep him too? That's 12 DL if you keep them all, the best option in my opinion is trade Hughes and cut Butler. 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Craig Oi

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

13 minutes ago, Craig Oi said:

My thoughts regarding the locker room and topic. It's clear to me that they value the "little guy" that comes out of obscurity and performs. If a guy little Zimmer clearly outperforms Butler and gets cut because of a contract , how well does that go over? To further my point we are clearly keeping all the kids and if Obada clearly is their 4th best DE on the team. Addison is the leader it appears, Johnson has value on teams and then there's Hughes who is not getting sneaked on the practice squad and  still has some trade value. Do we roll with 5 linebackers cut Taiwan and keep him too? That's 12 DL if you keep them all, the best option in my opinion is trade Hughes and cut Butler. 

They're not keeping more than 9 DL. It used to always be 8 every year if you recall.

 

When I did my roster I cut Butler, H. Phillips and D. Johnson, keeping six DEs and only three dedicated DTs. I think they'd like to keep Harrison Phillips because he's bigger than the others but I don't know who they cut to do it. Addison may be most likely but I think they like having him around. DL is finally fun to follow.

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, H2o said:

If Addison and Butler aren't viewed as better than the other guys then they will be traded or released outright. Beane has shown that he is not afraid to do that in his time here. It's part of the business and his business is about fielding the best team that gives us a chance to win.

 

This may be how you believe a franchise should be run. But saying that Beane has proven he's not afraid to cut a player outright that he's asked to take a pay cut to stay is flat out false. He's cut guys like McCoy, sure. But that's because he wouldn't take a paycut or wasn't asked to.

 

As I've stated in my earlier posts in this thread, he's never done it. Not even fringe players like Kroft who we barely dressed. Even DiMarco was kept on the payroll on IR and wasn't released without an agreed upon settlement before his retirement.

 

Is it possible? Yes. But again, it would be the very first time he's done it and I think there's a reason he hasn't. It's a bad look to the locker room to tell a player if he wants to stay he has to take a paycut and then cut them anyways before the start of the season, when it's difficult to latch on to a new team and be productive.

Edited August 6, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

21 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

I’m surprised no one said trade. For Addison you get 6 mil this year with another 2 mil dead cap this year and for butler you get 4 mil. If we keep everyone healthy I am taking anything I can get for these two. 
 

https://overthecap.com/player/mario-addison/1185/
 

https://overthecap.com/player/vernon-butler/4742/

Dimarco?  He was a bit dinged up but not sure if it counts. Also he was on the leadership council. 
 

confirmed 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/23/buffalo-bills-restructure-patrick-dimarco-contract/amp/

 

 

With their contracts and age, can't see a trade happening unless the Bills throw in a draft pick or something of value to get a team to take on these contracts.  That just rarely happens in the NFL.

 

 

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

This may be how you believe a franchise should be run. But saying that Beane has proven he's not afraid to cut a player outright that he's asked to take a pay cut to stay is flat out false. He's cut guys like McCoy, sure. But that's because he wouldn't take a paycut or wasn't asked to.

 

As I've stated in my earlier posts in this thread, he's never done it. Not even fringe players like Kroft who we barely dressed. Even DiMarco was kept on the payroll on IR and wasn't released without an agreed upon settlement before his retirement.

 

Is it possible? Yes. But again, it would be the very first time he's done it and I think there's a reason he hasn't. It's a bad look to the locker room to tell a player if he wants to stay he has to take a paycut and then cut them anyways before the start of the season, when it's difficult to latch on to a new team and be productive.

 

Beane has never done it prior, but has there been a need?  What players in the past three years took a pay cut and got guaranteed money but was also in the position where there was serious discussion of whether he should be cut.  Prior to last year the cupboard was pretty bare so hard to believe there were many vets in danger of being cut to start with.   If there were, I don't recall the names.

 

It's not like these guys weren't given anything for their troubles, they both got guaranteed money which they still keep if cut and can sign somewhere else for more money.

 

To me it seems hard for the Bills to improve in 2021 and not hurt themselves in 2022 and beyond without making some more aggressive type moves.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

The DL cuts will be very interesting come September.  Of course, all the cuts will be but DL the most I think. What do we do about Fromm?

 

Practice squad

 

23 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

Some have Brenda as a lock but I don't.

 

Who is Brenda?

 

 

23 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

Jaquan Johnson has a case of the toos.... Too short, too light, too slow, yet he is a defensive genius with super quick play recognition, is that enough to take Marlowe's job?

 

Marlowe was a free agent and was signed by the Lions.   I don't think the Bills let him walk if they don't have confidence in Jaquan Johnson.

 

The other Safeties on the roster are 2nd year player Josh Thomas and two rookies Damar Hamlin and Tariq Thompson.  I don't think they'd be counting on them to fill in for Poyer or Hyde.

 

It would be easier to respond to the rest of your post if you'd put in some return and break it up into more sentences.  Not intending to pick on you, just factual commentary that I find it difficult to read and what would help make it easier.

 

12 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

They're not keeping more than 9 DL. It used to always be 8 every year if you recall.

 

When I did my roster I cut Butler, H. Phillips and D. Johnson, keeping six DEs and only three dedicated DTs. I think they'd like to keep Harrison Phillips because he's bigger than the others but I don't know who they cut to do it. Addison may be most likely but I think they like having him around. DL is finally fun to follow.

 

Last year the Bills kept 9 DL.  They kept 10 OL.  I'm not going to say they won't keep more than 9.

 

I think the likelihood they keep 3 DT is very low.  McDermott loves his DL rotation, especially at DT.

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

With their contracts and age, can't see a trade happening unless the Bills throw in a draft pick or something of value to get a team to take on these contracts.  That just rarely happens in the NFL.

 

 

 

Beane has never done it prior, but has there been a need?  What players in the past three years took a pay cut and got guaranteed money but was also in the position where there was serious discussion of whether he should be cut.  Prior to last year the cupboard was pretty bare so hard to believe there were many vets in danger of being cut to start with.   If there were, I don't recall the names.

 

See: Kroft, Tyler

 

And who is having serious discussions that either should be cut, outside of a vocal minority in the fan base? Beane and McDermott continue to speak very highly of Addison. 

 

If either were to be cut, given their stature with the team, it would have happened a few months back to save the cap space and replace them instead of holding on to them with restructures.

Edited August 7, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 8/5/2021 at 5:56 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

People seem to have this idea that a guy's ability to rush from inside on a passing down means he can play every down as a DT.  Not so.

 

 

True. But it is a passing league these days and seemingly more so every year. So damn near every down is a passing down. 

 

Strange coincidence that our first two draft picks are experienced in rushing from both the outside and inside. 

I know I would hate to see Hughes as a cap casualty.  I do get the feeling the young guys are going to have him on the bench a lot more this year though. But regardless of the money I rather keep Hughes and let him finish out his contract this year and give it a go for a Super Bowl. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

 

Last year the Bills kept 9 DL.  They kept 10 OL.  I'm not going to say they won't keep more than 9.

 

I think the likelihood they keep 3 DT is very low.  McDermott loves his DL rotation, especially at DT.

I hear you, I just figured all those DEs can rotate at 3T. He'd still have as many 3Ts as ever.

Edited August 7, 2021 by 2020 Our Year For Sure

[SCBills]

How is Zimmer against the run?  
 

I know the Bills like him, but isn’t he an undersized DT?

 

We already have one of those in Oliver. 
 

Given the fact we have Hughes, Addison, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham and potentially Obada - id rather go with those 6 and keep Butler or Harry as a bigger body DT for run fits, given 4 of our DE’s can flip inside on passing downs. 
 

Edited August 7, 2021 by SCBills

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

They're not keeping more than 9 DL. It used to always be 8 every year if you recall.

 

When I did my roster I cut Butler, H. Phillips and D. Johnson, keeping six DEs and only three dedicated DTs. I think they'd like to keep Harrison Phillips because he's bigger than the others but I don't know who they cut to do it. Addison may be most likely but I think they like having him around. DL is finally fun to follow.

 

I don't think they will only keep 3 DTs. I know some of the outside guys can reduce down in pass rush situations but the way they rotate their Dline even on early downs they need 4. 

3 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I hear you, I just figured all those DEs can rotate at 3T. He'd still have as many 3Ts as ever.

 

But you don't want Rousseau or Obada at 3T on 1st or 2nd down. They'd just run right at them. Those DEs who can come inside are guys who can come inside on obvious passing downs. Not on early downs.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think they will only keep 3 DTs. I know some of the outside guys can reduce down in pass rush situations but the way they rotate their Dline even on early downs they need 4. 

 

But you don't want Rousseau or Obada at 3T on 1st or 2nd down. They'd just run right at them. Those DEs who can come inside are guys who can come inside on obvious passing downs. Not on early downs.

I'm curious, what's being lost there if it's say Obada instead of Oliver? They talk about how powerful Obada is.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I'm curious, what's being lost there if it's say Obada instead of Oliver? They talk about how powerful Obada is.

 

The technique you have to play with anchoring the run in the interior is completely different to the technique to rush the passer. Add to that Oliver is "undersized" and you are taking another 20-25lbs off him to Obada. 

 

The one guy I think could be more of a genuine DE/DT in time is Basham. I could see the Bills developing him in the role they brought Quinton Jefferson in to do last year where he is a genuine inside/outside flex. I just think that is a LOT to ask of a rookie. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Maybe. I still don't think they keep 10 DL for 4 spots. Quite the race here

[ghostwriter]

On 8/5/2021 at 8:30 PM, JohnNord said:

I think that Special Teams could play a factor.  Farwell mentioned Johnson again and I think the only chance for him to stay on the active roster is if they move on from Taiwan Jones

I think Daryl Johnson has a chance at becoming a good backup at DE. I hope they don’t cut him.

[Rochesterfan]

It will be interesting with the note that Butler was a head injury today.  Does that linger and give the Bills a potential injury list guy to protect someone? 
 

Things to watch for in his recovery.