Training Camp practice and Media Sessions 8/5

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

There was no drop off from Ford to Ike…. One could argue Ike was better…

 

 

The best Ford has looked as a pro was in the preseason of 2019 lined up at guard on the right side next to Nsekhe.    

 

Somehow a bogus narrative came about that he was somehow better suited on the left side.........he stunk when he played there.

 

His best shot is on the right side, IMO.    Boettger definitely outplayed Ford on the left side last year.

[Dablitzkrieg]

I'm not ready to give up on Knox.  Bad play are standing out because the team rarely makes them now.  He will be fine

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It was a known problem that he should have worked on in the off-season after his rookie season, and definitely after year 2.  He simply shouldn't be dropping the ball.  

To be fair he cut his drop % in half last year, and its pretty well documented how he worked on it this year.  As mentioned by the media in a couple places he has been catching well this TC.  It is something that everyone is gonna harp about when it happens too (similar to how we would have to see repeats of Josh's rough throws even in good games last year).  

Edited August 5, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[Shaw66]

Just now, TPS said:

I seem to recall reading a quote from McKenzie who said that Roberts taught him to be more aggressive on KO returns, "just take it and go!"

It's always interested me that kickoff and punt returns are so different.  Kickoffs are definitely "take it and go."   Just catch and run as fast as you can toward where your seam is supposed to be, keep going forward as fast as you can.  Changes of direction are gliding redirections. 

 

Punt returns are true broken field running - starts and stops, changes of direction.  

 

Most returners are good at one and not so good at the other.  Roscoe, for example, was a devastating punt returner and never much of a kick returner.   That was another thing that made Roberts valuable as a return man - he is among the best at both.   McKenzie actually strikes me as a tweener, not quite the broken field runner that the best punt returners are, not quite the blazing north-south guy you want on kickoff returns.  Still, McKenzie is a solid choice. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

With all the gushing about Chief’s 6th round rookie OG Trey Smith in the other thread, I wonder how Jack Anderson is coming along. Haven’t read a single word about him. The Doyle pick still has me scratching my head because interior help is what the Bills needed most.

 

 

The Bills put in a good deal of work on Anderson in the draft process.    Sometimes the late picks are about interviews and access/exposure to the player.    I always like to see them go with the high upside guys late........Smith over Doyle or Anderson would have been a popular choice with me...........but sometimes drafting like that is also how you end up with Cardale Jones and Kolby Listenbee.    

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

To be fair he cut his drop % in half last year, and its pretty well documented how he worked on it this year.  As mentioned by the media in a couple places he has been catching well this TC.  It is something that everyone is gonna harp about when it happens too (similar to how we would have to see repeats of Josh's rough throws even in good games last year).  

Right.  For any receiver, it's all about being consistently good catching the ball.  Everyone is going to have a drop once in a while.  The problem Knox has (like some other receivers), is that once you develop the reputation, even if you've improved, everyone notices your drops.   

 

And maybe he was better in 2020 than 2019, but he wasn't good enough.  He needs another big step, or he's going to be replaced.  

[Forward Progress]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.  For any receiver, it's all about being consistently good catching the ball.  Everyone is going to have a drop once in a while.  The problem Knox has (like some other receivers), is that once you develop the reputation, even if you've improved, everyone notices your drops.   

 

And maybe he was better in 2020 than 2019, but he wasn't good enough.  He needs another big step, or he's going to be replaced.  

 

I think you're right, Shaw.  Knox is an interesting case, because he's made so many difficult catches along with a high number of easy drops.  My belief has been that he's eyeing up his next move before securing the catch on the easy one's and fully focused on the contested catches.  Whatever the cause of the drops, I hope he turns it around this year because his game is pretty solid outside of the easy dropped balls.

[BornAgainBillsFan]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Well he’s our punter now so …

 

That's right!! And he and McKenzie were training together in the offseason. Maybe he was trying to pick up some speed tips from Haake!!

[CorkScrewHill]

5 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

I am coming around to McKenzie being return guy.  Mostly cause of the improvements hes shown as a receiver.  If hes committed to returns in that way then I think he may have learned a lot from Roberts last 2 years.

This data is from last October, but I have always been a bit skeptical of Andre Roberts .. he takes them out all the time and on average we were one of the better teams re: starting field position.. but by just a little bit ( a yard or two). I also think that Josh like most QBs struggle more when backed up .. I would be fine if Mackenzie took a knee every time .. and he has the added advantage of being a real WR.

 

https://thecommutesports.com/2020/10/27/nfl-starting-field-position/

 

The chart is pretty interesting so I would recommend taking a look.

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Could the early success of McKenzie and Kumerow, lead to the unlikely 7 receivers, spelling an end to possibly Breida? 

ive seen him playing some STs, but wonder how else they get to 7 (if they wanted to roster the aforementioned and maybe Hodgins/Stevenson)

We needed to add speed to the RB room.  Breida was the only speed addition.  I can’t see any scenario in which breida doesn’t make the team unless Antonio Williams explodes into the scene and takes the spot from him.  

[YattaOkasan]

3 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

This data is from last October, but I have always been a bit skeptical of Andre Roberts .. he takes them out all the time and on average we were one of the better teams re: starting field position.. but by just a little bit ( a yard or two). I also think that Josh like most QBs struggle more when backed up .. I would be fine if Mackenzie took a knee every time .. and he has the added advantage of being a real WR.

 

https://thecommutesports.com/2020/10/27/nfl-starting-field-position/

 

The chart is pretty interesting so I would recommend taking a look.

Pretty interesting, but doesnt it show how good Roberts was?  They concluded Jets and Bills were getting the most out of our units.

[78thealltimegreat]

Well one thing I have learned is that Aaron Rogers if he ever decided to would be a heck a scout or GM and Steve Tasker who was pumping Dawson Knox’s tires as being the player to take the next great leap would not 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You can count me in the camp that believes "instinct" is something that can be trained with the right practice.

 

The Bills gave Roberts a big contract not only because they wanted reliable hands, but because they wanted to add "home run threat" abilities to their punt and kick return game.  For whatever reason, not only didn't that work for them.  The last two seasons, Bills had one PR TD (McKenzie of the "lack of anticipation") and one KR TD (Micah Hyde).  In addition, Roberts fumbled 3x (Tenn Pitts and Den) and deflected a catchable but off-target pass up into harms way for a pick (Tenn).

 

Roberts absolutely brought the ball out at times when ST-knowledgeable members here pointed out why he shouldn't.  I'm sure they coached him, but the point of paying good $$$ to a KR/PR specialist is you're not supposed to have to do that so much.  He was pressing, I think; he wanted to make a big play and contribute to the team's success and sometimes it backfired.

 

I think there will be a downgrade with McKenzie back there, but hopefully not too large and we absolutely needed another WR who could really contribute well enough to put the "walking wounded" on the bench at times.

Completely agree. I think the 3 fumbles and that catchable INT sealed Andre's fate. Isaiah will be a high risk high return player. It wouldn't surprise me to see him get at least 1 or 2 td returns. But his early career fumbles must be coached out of his system. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

Looking forward to the day we replace Knox as our starter. 

 

Dude just can't catch the football. 

I'll be honest...Dawson Knox sucks. 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

I will have to disagree with you on the instinct for Mackenzie, he has been a good returner, his issue has/had been holding on to the ball. If he has improved that aspect, I dont foresee much of a drop off from Roberts (and Roberts did not really have the best year in regards to ball security last year anyway, iirc he had 3 fumbles)

Disagree. In the past when McK was K/R (which was not often), I don't recall him being a "good returner". Maybe average at best or maybe even below average. He obviously did great last season with the TD return when he had to step in. 

 

Maybe it's an area he has improved upon as of last season and hopefully if called upon for that role again he will keep it up. As for he "has been a good returner" in the past, I haven't seen it.....unless I'm missing something.

[YattaOkasan]

5 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I'll be honest...Dawson Knox sucks. 

 

He honestly reminds me of Josh a lot.  Doesn't have a ton of reps, but has very good traits.  If he turns out like Josh is still very unclear.

[Fred Slacks]

39 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Could the early success of McKenzie and Kumerow, lead to the unlikely 7 receivers, spelling an end to possibly Breida? 

ive seen him playing some STs, but wonder how else they get to 7 (if they wanted to roster the aforementioned and maybe Hodgins/Stevenson)

I think it would lead to an end for Taiwan Jones as Kumerow can play gunner.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Now THIS is interesting.

Last year we were hearing about Davis lighting it up in practice.

This year, all we hear about is Kumerow dominating, and we've heard barely a peep about Davis.

Much ado about nothing? Sophomore slump incoming? What's the deal?

Well, I think it's more about Kumerow basically being the "cinderella story" I guess you could say. So there is and will be more about him I would think. Davis has been solid. He has a couple drops I believe was reported few days ago, which is no biggie. Otherwise seems to me he is doing his thing as usual.

[Bray Wyatt]

15 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Disagree. In the past when McK was K/R (which was not often), I don't recall him being a "good returner". Maybe average at best or maybe even below average. He obviously did great last season with the TD return when he had to step in. 

 

Maybe it's an area he has improved upon as of last season and hopefully if called upon for that role again he will keep it up. As for he "has been a good returner" in the past, I haven't seen it.....unless I'm missing something.

 

He was a returner in college, had 5 punt return for tds in college. Also averaged 11.7 yard per return, so the talent is there.

[YoloinOhio]

https://twitter.com/ashnoelletv/status/1423361992019087362?s=21