Training Camp practice and Media Sessions 8/5

[TheBeaneBandit]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

With all the gushing about Chief’s 6th round rookie OG Trey Smith in the other thread, I wonder how Jack Anderson is coming along. Haven’t read a single word about him. The Doyle pick still has me scratching my head because interior help is what the Bills needed most.

Damn I knew Trey Smith could play. I thought he dropped because of a condition of some sort. Dude was a late 1st early 2nd round talent.

[Peace Frog]

Maybe lose the TE position this year and go with our version of the run & shoot offense.

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

With all the gushing about Chief’s 6th round rookie OG Trey Smith in the other thread, I wonder how Jack Anderson is coming along. Haven’t read a single word about him. The Doyle pick still has me scratching my head because interior help is what the Bills needed most.

I respectfully disagree that interior depth is/was needed more than tackle depth.

On the interior, we have

Feliciano
Ford
Boettger
Lamp
Bates
Devey

None of those guys are world beaters, but several of them have starting experience, and several of them still have the capacity to improve. Besides, it's not as if the Bills' offensive line was a tire fire last season. To the degree that they struggled, I would point at least partially to Feliciano and Ford -- the presumed starters -- both missing significant time due to injury.

On the other hand, after Dion Dawkins and Daryl Williams, the Bills had just Bobby Hart at tackle. That is SCARY. I have read the opinions of Bengals fans and seen some of the lowlights myself, and if the Bills ever have to depend on Hart for significant snaps, well....not good. 

Time will tell if Brown or Doyle are actually upgrades, but I view the addition of both guys as very necessary, and chalk it up to some prudent present and future planning by Beane.

As for Trey Smith, well....Zero has been calling him "the steal of the draft" since before pads even came on, so...yeah.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[Brand J]

 

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

I respectfully disagree that interior depth is/was needed more than tackle depth.

On the interior, we have

Feliciano
Ford
Boettger
Lamp
Bates
Devey

None of those guys are world beaters, but several of them have starting experience, and several of them still have the capacity to improve. Besides, it's not as if the Bills' offensive line was a tire fire last season. To the degree that they struggled, I would point at least partially to Feliciano and Ford -- the presumed starters -- both missing significant time due to injury.

On the other hand, after Dion Dawkins and Daryl Williams, the Bills had just Bobby Hart at tackle. That is SCARY. I have read the opinions of Bengals fans and seen some of the lowlights myself, and if the Bills ever have to depend on Hart for significant snaps, well....not good. 

Time will tell if Brown or Doyle are actually upgrades, but I view the addition of both guys as very necessary, and chalk it up to some prudent present and future planning by Beane.

As for Trey Smith, well....Zero has been calling him "the steal of the draft" since before pads even came on, so...yeah.

When the Bills OL was beaten last season, the pressure most often came from the interior. As you said, none of those guys are world beaters, they’re all just JAGs. Ford hasn’t proven he can do it yet, Feliciano’s weakness is pass protection. Boettger has improved, but isn’t a long term answer. Morse may be gone after this year. I see your argument about Spencer Brown and it makes sense, but I still maintain interior help is needed most, in terms of an upgrade.

[GETTOTHE50]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

 

When the Bills OL was beaten last season, the pressure most often came from the interior. As you said, none of those guys are world beaters, they’re all just JAGs. Ford hasn’t proven he can do it yet, Feliciano’s weakness is pass protection. Boettger has improved, but isn’t a long term answer. Morse may be gone after this year. I see your argument about Spencer Brown and it makes sense, but I still maintain interior help is needed most, in terms of an upgrade.

 

i agree. chris jones exposed mongo a few times during the AFC championship. i love mongo, but he is better suited for center. and yes hopefully ford steps up guard bc we do need upgrades in the interior

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Because of COVID the number of eligible available draft picks was significantly lower this year and many juniors and seniors that sat out were granted an extra year of eligibility and decided to come back.

 

It was talked about several times that many guys would never have been drafted and teams were actually looking ahead and actively trading picks in this draft for picks next year because the anticipation is that next year could have nearly twice as many eligible players declare for the draft making it one of the deepest ever.

 

That doesn’t mean the top end talent was not as good, but a lot of the depth was missing and it allowed some very middle of the pack guys to get drafted based upon potential rather than on the field play.

Thanks.   But I thought receivers were deep, and there was some speculation that Stevenson might have fallen a bit compared to a normal receiver year.  But what do I know?  I didn't follow it all that carefully.   All I knew is that the pick sent a message to McKenzie - "we now have an option."

[RichRiderBills]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Admittedly, I have not been a McKenzie fan, but it's certainly sounding like he's the guy.  

 

I am a big Roberts fan.  More so than almost any other position, punt returning is an instinct skill, instinct and quickness.  Roberts has the instinct; I don't see it in McKenzie.  George Saimes had the instinct.  Roscoe Parish did.  Hyde has the instinct but not the high-end quickness or speed McKenzie has.  McKenzie is fast, he can change direction, but he doesn't seem to anticipate the openings the way Roberts did.   And I don't buy the criticism of Roberts making bad judgments on kickoffs.  Roberts very clearly did what he was told to do - NOBODY plays for McDermott who doesn't do what he's coached.  So when Roberts brought the ball out of the end zone, he did because he was told he could do it if he saw certain things.  When he saw those things, he went.  If he misread something, it showed up in the film and they coached him.   He wasn't a loose cannon back there.  

 

But having said all that, my worst-case view of McKenzie returning kicks is that he's serviceable.  He was a better receiver last season than in previous years, and it sounds like he's still learning in both roles.   

 

I was never a giant McKenzie fan either for a couple of reasons;

 

A. I thought the guy in the Roberts role and the kind of jacknife x guy in the offense that McKenzie was should be the same roster spot.

 

B. He just did not get in the snaps and was not consistent enough.

 

So now, especially after that Miami game to end the year, I'm really at peace with him in the full Roberts/ McKenzie role all in one for this season. 

 

 

[BigAl2526]

4 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

I am coming around to McKenzie being return guy.  Mostly cause of the improvements hes shown as a receiver.  If hes committed to returns in that way then I think he may have learned a lot from Roberts last 2 years.

The only downside is that a player whose primary role is as a returner, he may not be as available to run plays on offense.  That, according to special teams icon Steve Tasker, who says it's really tough to do both.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[First Round Bust]

well its either McK returning punts-kicks or a rook or journeyman Powell who is not looking all that good..McK has had game experience and all off-season to prep so lets see how good he looks doing it in pre-see games...saves a roster spot as McK can still be that gadget WR, the rook to the PS and Powell to waiver wire...

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

The legend of Kumerow is growing day by day! 
I’m about ready to say line us up five wide and dare you stop our guys each  down, Throw Knox on the sideline…keep the playmakers on the field. 

 

But seriously I’m stoked about our Wr depth right now. 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[NewEra]

26 minutes ago, Logic said:

I respectfully disagree that interior depth is/was needed more than tackle depth.

On the interior, we have

Feliciano
Ford
Boettger
Lamp
Bates
Devey

None of those guys are world beaters, but several of them have starting experience, and several of them still have the capacity to improve. Besides, it's not as if the Bills' offensive line was a tire fire last season. To the degree that they struggled, I would point at least partially to Feliciano and Ford -- the presumed starters -- both missing significant time due to injury.

On the other hand, after Dion Dawkins and Daryl Williams, the Bills had just Bobby Hart at tackle. That is SCARY. I have read the opinions of Bengals fans and seen some of the lowlights myself, and if the Bills ever have to depend on Hart for significant snaps, well....not good. 

Time will tell if Brown or Doyle are actually upgrades, but I view the addition of both guys as very necessary, and chalk it up to some prudent present and future planning by Beane.

As for Trey Smith, well....Zero has been calling him "the steal of the draft" since before pads even came on, so...yeah.

Agreed that depth on the interior is better than at tackle.  The level of starter play at the tackle is 10x better than the level of starter guard play.  Anyone we drafted at OG would’ve had a chance to start this season and upgraded our starting OL, rather than strictly as depth.  
 

Passing on Smith in rounds 3-6 really pissed me off.  Figures that kC would land him

[BillsFan4]

34 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

It’s sooo nice to be getting excited about continuity!

 

What a welcome change. I sure like it a lot better than the days of trying to get excited over the newest Bills coach/QB/coordinator (etc) hoping that they’d finally be the one to turn things around.

[JerseyBills]

45 minutes ago, Logic said:

I respectfully disagree that interior depth is/was needed more than tackle depth.

On the interior, we have

Feliciano
Ford
Boettger
Lamp
Bates
Devey

None of those guys are world beaters, but several of them have starting experience, and several of them still have the capacity to improve. Besides, it's not as if the Bills' offensive line was a tire fire last season. To the degree that they struggled, I would point at least partially to Feliciano and Ford -- the presumed starters -- both missing significant time due to injury.

On the other hand, after Dion Dawkins and Daryl Williams, the Bills had just Bobby Hart at tackle. That is SCARY. I have read the opinions of Bengals fans and seen some of the lowlights myself, and if the Bills ever have to depend on Hart for significant snaps, well....not good. 

Time will tell if Brown or Doyle are actually upgrades, but I view the addition of both guys as very necessary, and chalk it up to some prudent present and future planning by Beane.

As for Trey Smith, well....Zero has been calling him "the steal of the draft" since before pads even came on, so...yeah.

We had a top 10 oline and had injuries, Mongo,Ford,Morse. 

Dabol goes 6 OL alot, I think Brown can be a big time addition at that spot at least

[BornAgainBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

It seems, to me, that McKenzie may have more "game break" ability than Andre Roberts did

 

He's got some good instincts, but I remember the Fins punter almost running him down during his house call in week 17. He had to add a few juke moves to get in.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Ahhhhhhhh! I’m not sure what to do with my hands. 

 

just kidding 

Pre Season week 1 ???

 

ya got to get some practice in too. 
 

😝

 

Another fan favorite 

 

Uniform color 

 

and no one will complain about Grey face masks 

 

Right @BringBackFergy?

Edited August 5, 2021 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[YoloinOhio]

9 minutes ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

 

He's got some good instincts, but I remember the Fins punter almost running him down during his house call in week 17. He had to add a few juke moves to get in.

Well he’s our punter now so …

[TPS]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Those are all fair points.  Roberts was a natural back there, catching the ball and going.  Like Hyde.  I'm always comfortable when Hyde is back there.  

 

But one of the comments from Farwell is that he can't keep McKenzie off the JUGS machine.  It's pretty clear that McDermott likes Mac not just because of the Swiss-Army-knife factor, but also his dedication.   He clearly improved last season as a receiver, it sounds like he's taking seriously the punt return job.  

 

My view on punt returning is that top-end speed isn't so important any more.  In the modern NFL, with the rules as they are, and with the specialization of players and teams, punt returns for touchdowns are becoming rare.  The punting team has to make a mistake to give up a touchdown.   I think the best you can reasonably expect is a guy who can get you 10 to 15 or 20 yards, which is a nice flip in field position.  That doesn't require top-end speed; it requires recognition and quickness - it's classic broken field running.  That's why I mentioned Saimes, who most people here never saw.   He was a master at it - he wasn't going to outrun everyone to the end zone, but he'd get you 15 when everyone else would get you 5 or 7.  

 

Anyway, like all the positions (except tight end - Knox dropped another today?  C'mon, man!) on the Bills this season, the Bills have punt returning covered with McKenzie.  If anyone can beat him out, it's just an upgrade over a solid answer.  

I seem to recall reading a quote from McKenzie who said that Roberts taught him to be more aggressive on KO returns, "just take it and go!"

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Could the early success of McKenzie and Kumerow, lead to the unlikely 7 receivers, spelling an end to possibly Breida? 

ive seen him playing some STs, but wonder how else they get to 7 (if they wanted to roster the aforementioned and maybe Hodgins/Stevenson)