Training Camp practice and Media Sessions 8/5

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

I don't think it matters if McD told him or not, he made a poor play about six times last season (that he came out of the endzone and ended up at around the ten. Way too often, imho....

 

 

I can't say that I'm sure that you're wrong, but I'm pretty sure. In the old days, kick returners would stand back and make a judgment about whether to bring it out, a decision like you seem to be contemplating.   I don't think it works that way any longer.   On a well-coached team, and this is definitely a well-coached team, the return man isn't standing back there and bringing it out just because he thinks he can make something out of it.  

 

I think that the special teams coaches study the film of the opponent's kick coverage and they decide what plays they have that they think they can run successfully against that coverage.  They coach the players as to how to execute the play against the coverage.  They give guidelines to the return man.  

 

I think Roberts ran out of the end zone last year because he was supposed to.  What happened is that the Bills players were unable to execute their blocks in the ways that the coaches thought they could.   In other words, the opponent's scheme beat the Bills' scheme.  But over the course of the season, the Bills' scheme beat the other guys, so much so that Roberts led the league in kick return average.  The Bills were willing to take risks on bringing the ball out of the end zone because they were good at kick returns.  That's why Roberts was coming out of the end zone, and that's why every once in a while it looked like a bad decision.

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Seems the backs are doing well but relying on Dawson Knox is really going to have people running for the Pepto Bismol this fall 

We will have a better idea how much the RB's along with OL run blocking have improved if any when the real games start. 

[Saxum]

11 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

side note here.... i need that shirt!!!!!!!!

 

You would need to get quite a bit of sillycone surgery to get it to fit.

[Saxum]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know if the draft was thin or not, but I definitely agree that Stevenson has to affirmatively win the job to make the 53.  If he just looks as good as Mac and has potential, that's not enough.  McKenzie is useful, experienced and reliable.   Stevenson has to win the job.   

 

McKenzie has game experience and even has pitched in on defense.

Stevenson can look good in training camp/preseason but he had as much experience as P5t5rman when he was made starter.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think Roberts ran out of the end zone last year because he was supposed to.

I believe they wanted Roberts to run as often as possible I'm sure being he was one of the best K/R in the league and was dangerous. That said, I'm not sure he was supposed to on a few of those deep in the EZ. I recall about 2 or so (which isn't many at all) that he had no business running out. I think one time he was about to kneel and decided to just go for it. 

 

Although there were also a few times he did run it out from deep in the EZ and got the offense in good field position. He did get more positive field position than not though, therefor I didn't mind and kinda wanted him to run it out majority of the time. But there were a couple times where you know it's a bad idea to run it out and those are the ones I'm talking about. But like I said, it was very few I recall so not really a big deal.

 

Basically just saying I'm not sure he was "supposed" to run it out all the time.

24 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

McKenzie has game experience and even has pitched in on defense.

Stevenson can look good in training camp/preseason but he had as much experience as P5t5rman when he was made starter.

Yeah and very, very doubtful he beats out McKenzie. Imo McKenzie is a lock to make it without question

Edited August 6, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

Wow! Viscous take But probably accurate. All our TEs are better blockers than Scott Chandler because Lee Smith was there to show them that it is possible to execute a block on so and so pass rusher and I think that helped a lot but at the same time they really can't do it like Lee. It was smart to get that seventh rounder from Atlanta as I thought he was untradeable and we reduced our cap some through the trade but what are we going to do now? Can Gilliam block? What about putting Brown in there? That'd be cool to see but a guy like Watt might run right passed him.  Knox is a tough guy and has the athleticism but is not that good of a blocker..... It is such a hard job to block a pass rushing specialist at 250#....Just crazy hard to stop them with space. When they line up wide and go either way, it's crazy tough. I think that is maybe the toughest job in the NFL...Those pass rushers are fierce! IDK? I couldn't block anybody.... I am a Lee Smith fan and was hoping he could coach up others to do it....Maybe that is something we need to get better at to hit the next level? Daryl Williams impressed the ***** out of me blocking Watt last year. Very strong and very athletic. He should be able to run block just fine if he can do that. I predict the Bills run a lot better this year and I predict the TEs are better (just not great).

Yeah, it was probably a little vicious….but seriously….none of our TEs are scaring anyone.  Our WRs are scaring everyone. Who would you rather have on the field as a potential playmaker, Isaiah Mckenzie or Dawson Knox?  Mckenzie or Hollister?  Kumerow or Knox or Hollister?  I’d rather have Hodgins tbh.  I’m MUCH more confidant that he’ll catch the ball compared to Knox.  I love the dudes physicals.  He gets me fired up with his run after the catches.  But I just don’t trust him.  I trust the other guys.  I’m hoping that changes this season as I don’t expect us to freeze out the tight end position.  He’s going to get some opportunities.

 

I like the Hollister addition strictly because he’s so cheap.  I don’t think he’s terrible as a pass target, but I do think he’s terrible as a blocker.  If he can’t block he might as well be a WR.  We have better WRs than him.  
 

I was hoping that we would add an all around TE and run with that guy + knox this offseason.  One that could block and catch. Opening up our run game.  Becoming more multidimensional and using different personnel groupings.  Well, hollister isn’t that type of TE imo.  I don’t see how he’s going to have a positive impact on our run game.  If he’s just there to be a target…..I’d rather put Mckenzie or Kumerow out there. Or breida tbh.  He can make the D pay.  

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

McKenzie has game experience and even has pitched in on defense.

Stevenson can look good in training camp/preseason but he had as much experience as P5t5rman when he was made starter.

He does wear a lot of hats WR/KR/PR/QB/DB

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

13 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Admittedly, I have not been a McKenzie fan, but it's certainly sounding like he's the guy.  

 

I am a big Roberts fan.  More so than almost any other position, punt returning is an instinct skill, instinct and quickness.  Roberts has the instinct; I don't see it in McKenzie.  George Saimes had the instinct.  Roscoe Parish did.  Hyde has the instinct but not the high-end quickness or speed McKenzie has.  McKenzie is fast, he can change direction, but he doesn't seem to anticipate the openings the way Roberts did.   And I don't buy the criticism of Roberts making bad judgments on kickoffs.  Roberts very clearly did what he was told to do - NOBODY plays for McDermott who doesn't do what he's coached.  So when Roberts brought the ball out of the end zone, he did because he was told he could do it if he saw certain things.  When he saw those things, he went.  If he misread something, it showed up in the film and they coached him.   He wasn't a loose cannon back there.  

 

But having said all that, my worst-case view of McKenzie returning kicks is that he's serviceable.  He was a better receiver last season than in previous years, and it sounds like he's still learning in both roles.   

Agree completely.
 

Roberts is a guy you always give a green light too on KO returns. 
 

And re McKenzie, the major concern is his ball security and judgment in the return game. He has made a lot of bad decisions and made a lot of mistakes in the past with the Broncos and Bills on pretty limited opportunities on punts and kicks. I don’t think you can teach the instincts you need there, so color Me very worried. 

[YattaOkasan]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know if Addison gets cut. 

 

A point is that the Bills pay exactly the same cap if they keep him or cut him; $2M of his salary was guaranteed when he took his cut, and a voidable year created with $2M of amortized signing bonus that would accelerate into this season to cancel the $2.075M we'd save in salary.

 

I'm not sure what "I don't accept the Obada vs Johnson concept" means?

 

 

I’m rooting for an Addison trade. I think we don’t have the dead cap in that situation. With how our numbers are stacking up, if there are no injuries I would take just a 7th. 
 

to the quote below. I agree but would replace the Titans with colts. I don’t know that the Titans had much of anything on defense which makes the loss that much more frustrating.  Particularly against the chiefs you need to run the ball effectively to beat them. 

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So here's what I see: we were able to run at times against some teams - NE; the Chargers; Denver; the Jets; Pittsburgh to close out the game.

 

Sometimes we simply didn't try to run, as against the Seasnakes and the 49ers.

 

But against the teams with the top DLs?  Titans, the Ravens, the Chiefs -Nopenope, could not get 'er done, didn't happen.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I like the Hollister addition strictly because he’s so cheap.  I don’t think he’s terrible as a pass target, but I do think he’s terrible as a blocker.  If he can’t block he might as well be a WR.  We have better WRs than him. 

 

Say more about this, please.  How did you assess this and come to this conclusion?

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Say more about this, please.  How did you assess this and come to this conclusion?

Coming out of college, he was seen as a move TE that wasn’t a very good blocker.  When we signed him, I read and watched up on him. I liked him at seattle, he’s quick off the snap and can separate.  Pretty much everything I read mentioned that he’s was a poor blocker.  Things like this.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/.amp/gm-report/seahawks-2021-free-agent-primer-jacob-hollister

 

I haven’t broken down any of his tape myself. 

[Richard Noggin]

9 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Hughes, Addison, Epinesa, Rousseau, Basham and Obga are all better on defense.  Are you keeping 7 des?  Do you keep Johnson over Addison?  I think its a numbers game.

Yes to Johnson over Addison, despite the lack of savings and Johnson's lack of production when he's gotten defensive snaps. Yes to youth (potential for increased future value) and physical traits (length) and position flex (STs). Addison and Hughes are redundant on the depth chart. One has to step aside. I especially don't want Obada being cut in favor of a past-prime vet like Addison. I think Efe Obada is a sneaky good acquisition. Johnson isn't some must-have gameday talent, but he is useful, cheap, and possesses traits.

[Rochesterfan]

15 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I mean two throws are only two throws, I'm sure Tyrod and Trent Edwards threw it downfield a couple times in a practice session too. We don't really know.

 

Have you seen anyone anyplace talking about Mitch “checking down”?
 

Everything I have read and seen and all the interviews on pod casts talk about him making throws all over the field and now we get 1 guy saying he has been up and down.

 

I guess from the fact that it sounds like he has been making throws to Davis, Gentry, Kumerow, Hodgkins, and Stevenson- I would assume just the opposite- it sounds like Mitchell is trying to learn the offense and utilize it to the fullest - to compare him to Tyrod or Trent makes no sense - he has never been that type of QB.

[Rochesterfan]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

The pool of players was shallow overall.........but not for WR.........very deep draft at WR.    There have been plenty of years when a guy like Stevenson goes 3rd or 4th round.    Ask Buddy Nix about TJ Graham.   Not nearly the prospect Stevenson was........but sometimes there have been WR droughts that last for several draft classes.   2015-2017 was like that most recently.

 

@BADOLBILZ,

I agree that for the second year in row the WRs were by far the deepest part of the draft, but I guess the things I read was basically that even with the WRs being deep in the draft - in a normal year there would have been 30+ more WRs in the pool and several would have pushed a guy like Stevenson down lower.  

 

Yes there are years where there have been WRs droughts and he would be ranked as highly, but I guess my overall point would be - next years draft with probably double the eligible players is going to have Stevenson level players as UDFAs because the pool is so deep.  
 

We will see, but I think if the Bills are forced to cut and try to PS a player like Stevenson-they will be ok and even if they lose him because they can get that same talent again next year if needed.

[Shaw66]

9 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

That said, I'm not sure he was supposed to on a few of those deep in the EZ. I recall about 2 or so (which isn't many at all) that he had no business running out. I think one time he was about to kneel and decided to just go for it. 

 

I think you're missing the point.   Do you think pass receivers change their routes because the route they're supposed to run looks like it's covered?   No.  Pass receivers are expected to run their routes and get to where they're supposed to go.  Do the coaches want them to run their routes, even if they're covered?   Yes.  Why?  Because if nothing else, they want it on film that they send that guy deep.  

 

Do you think corner backs just drop their coverage on the wideout and go double team the tight end because they think the QB wants to throw it to the TE?   No.  The corner back defends the play the way the defense was called.  

 

Do you think running backs just decide not to hit the proper hole because it doesn't feel right to them?    Maybe Adrian Peterson had that choice, but probably not even him.   Run the play as designed, because that's where the highest probability of success is.  If the hole is plugged, hit it anyway - it will force the defense to respect the fact that that's where you want to attack.

 

The days of football players on their own just deciding to do something different from the called play are gone.   Yes, within the play design, a player may have to make reads and make choices, but that's different from simply not doing what was assigned because it doesn't look right to the player.  One of the reasons Randy Moss bounced around from team to team is that he would, on his own, break off his routes and run to the space he thought was open.

 

I'm pretty sure Roberts ran out of the end zone because that was the play design.   He rarely ran out of the end zone in 2019, but in 2020 he was doing it all the time.   Why didn't he do it in 2019?   Because he was told not to.  Does anyone really think that in 2020 he just started coming out on his own?   I don't.   He was coming out because the coaches decided that on average, they'd do better bringing it out than taking the touchback.  Why?  Because they thought they had schemes that would work, and they had a kick returner who was good.  And Roberts turned out to have the best kick return average in the league.  

 

When you have Josh Allen, you don't stop throwing the ball deep because sometimes it doesn't work.  When you have Andre Roberts, you don't stop bringing it out because sometimes it doesn't work.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

@BADOLBILZ,

I agree that for the second year in row the WRs were by far the deepest part of the draft, but I guess the things I read was basically that even with the WRs being deep in the draft - in a normal year there would have been 30+ more WRs in the pool and several would have pushed a guy like Stevenson down lower.  

 

Yes there are years where there have been WRs droughts and he would be ranked as highly, but I guess my overall point would be - next years draft with probably double the eligible players is going to have Stevenson level players as UDFAs because the pool is so deep.  
 

We will see, but I think if the Bills are forced to cut and try to PS a player like Stevenson-they will be ok and even if they lose him because they can get that same talent again next year if needed.

 

 

Right now,   it looks like there will be significantly less quality WR prospects in the 2022 draft than there was this year..........particularly wrt speed and quickness guys.   Not a drought year........but down from the past two and less quality at the top.    Despite the very small # of players overall.........the 2021 class was very deep at WR using any prior draft as a measure.

 

But I agree that they should be able to cut and PS him.     The league is loaded at WR,  I expect there will be many better prospects than Stevenson on the waiver wire at the end of camp.    Bills might even go that route.    I don't think it's a given that he is with the Bills in any capacity even if he goes unclaimed after cuts.     

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

to compare him to Tyrod or Trent makes no sense - he has never been that type of QB.

Well that's nice to hear, those two were traumatizing!

[Saxum]

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

He does wear a lot of hats WR/KR/PR/QB/DB

 

I love ironman players who play both sides (or in this case three sides) of field.

 

I guess I should have used picture of War Machine but never found one to fit.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/top-3-things-to-know-from-day-7-at-2021-bills-training-camp

 

Haven't heard any mention of Ike Boettger yet, but per Maddy Glab he got right after it:

Quote

Offensive guard Ike Boettger was activated off the Reserve/Covid-19 list on Thursday. It was Boettger's first practice after missing six days of camp. The offensive lineman didn't much time to ease into practices as Thursday's was in pads.

Boettger was thrown right into the mix and had a good share of reps on his first day back. On one play, Boettger had a nice block that allowed running back Zack Moss get downfield on a screen pass from Josh Allen.

 

Good to hear

 

Tremaine Edmunds INT:

Quote

During Thursday's practice Edmunds had an interception where he showcased his catching ability in coverage as he fell to the ground. The linebacker also had a nice pass break up against Stefon Diggs. He also batted down a pass a few days ago. The young leader has put together a nice string of highlights through the first seven practices.

I'm not sure "showcased his catching ability" is quite the right phrase.  "Finally managed to haul one in after letting so many get by him" comes to my mind

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Nice write up on Isaiah McKenzie interview yesterday.

(needs an editor though - phew!)

 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/bills/isaiah-mckenzie-in-top-spot-for-buffalo-bills-return-game/71-343419bc-fcb8-40aa-8e08-abb574195b56

 

Quote

"It's not self proclaimed but I am the fastest guy on the team. A lot of people will say I'm not, but I think I am," Bills returner Isaiah McKenzie said, laughing.

 

It's not self proclaimed, I'm just proclaiming it myself?

 

Quote

"I mean it took a couple of years," McKenzie said. "Beasley, Brown, and Roberts showed me ways to get better at my game. To heave whatever they said to me each and everyday and I applied it to my game.

#Bills Isaiah McKenzie says going into year 5 he feels confident in his ability. Added he’s taken field positioning, don’t be too greedy and more from Andre Roberts.

— Ashly Holder (@AshNoelleTV) August 5, 2021

"Now going into year five, I feel like I'm pretty confident in my route running, return ability, and I just want to get better each and every day. Now that I'm alone and Dre's not here, I have be consistent each and every day."