Where are the roster battles?

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

You are totally right about Matakevich. I forgot about the Bills extending him. He is a lock. Based on Farwell comments today, Gilliam and Bam Johnson may also be locks for the roster based on ST prowess.

 

They were both core STers. I think Gilliam will make it.... for Bam to make it would be a surprise given the logjam at D End but not an absolute stunner to me because I actually watch, understand and value special teams.

[BADOLBILZ]

Excellent synopsis.

 

Obviously injuries will also help sort it out and to me it sounds like Hollister might be the first IR candidate.  

 

Your picks certainly reflect a McBeane that are afraid to move on from veterans.........which makes sense because they are in SB contention........but while I think the Bills should be all-in on this year..........IMO it would be good for both 2021 AND 2022 if they cut some of the deader weight like Addison, Klein and Star and Taiwan now.    Klein and Jones played well last year but another year older at athletic positions like that matters.   

 

As @Rochesterfan pointed out,  they might be able to PS one or two of those guys.......there is a lot of guaranteed money in their pockets.......and not a lot of fits for them on decent teams elsewhere (see how long it took Justin Houston to get his little contract).   On paper,  Star is an obvious fit for a cut and stash.   He's already going to get his money.   Give him half a season to practice back into shape and insert him into the lineup fresh late in the season.  If they can't get one of the vets to take one for the team and chance to win......there will be comparable veteran LB's,  ST's and 1 techs available cheap off the street all season.    

 

Also a 7th WR isn't on my radar right now..........they should be able to field capable options on the PS with such great depth around the league.    The Bills have a highly productive WR corps but the "potential" of their WR corps.......QB'ing being equal........fell well down the list with all the explosive talents entering the league the past two seasons.   I don't think teams are drooling at the thought of getting their hands on Hodgins or Stevenson.   But as you said, if they play great in preseason they could force the team to keep one of them.

 

 

[Might Rather]

Good read, thanks for taking the time to do this!

[Kelly the Dog]

I value ST and I know that both McDermott and Beane very much value them. But for this particular Bills team, I’m a proponent of slightly devaluing them for several reasons. 
 

1. Rule changes have severely reduced returns in recent years. Both ours and theirs. 
2. Our KO man has a monster leg so less returns. 
3. Our new punter is known for hang time and placement more than length. Less returns. 
4. We just don’t punt a lot, often 1-3 a game. Less returns. 

We have a couple guys already who are locks like Makevitch and Neal and Gilliam who are already quite good, we just don’t need to spend a roster spot on Taiwan Jones or even Daryl Johnson if he isn’t the DE others are. 

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I value ST and I know that both McDermott and Beane very much value them. But for this particular Bills team, I’m a proponent of slightly devaluing them for several reasons. 
 

1. Rule changes have severely reduced returns in recent years. Both ours and theirs. 
2. Our KO man has a monster leg so less returns. 
3. Our new punter is known for hang time and placement more than length. Less returns. 
4. We just don’t punt a lot, often 1-3 a game. Less returns. 

We have a couple guys already who are locks like Makevitch and Neal and Gilliam who are already quite good, we just don’t need to spend a roster spot on Taiwan Jones or even Daryl Johnson if he isn’t the DE others are. 

 

But the counter is we remain in a division with Belichick and Flores who both place extra weight on STs. I'd hate to lose a game in division on a special teams play the way we did at home to the Pats in 2019. 

 

Of course there is a balance about how many guys you keep for teams but I at the moment I am struggling to see who the exciting non-teams playing backup we might lost to prioritise teams is.... Tyrel Dodson is the closest I can come up with?

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But the counter is we remain in a division with Belichick and Flores who both place extra weight on STs. I'd hate to lose a game in division on a special teams play the way we did at home to the Pats in 2019. 

 

Of course there is a balance about how many guys you keep for teams but I at the moment I am struggling to see who the exciting non-teams playing backup we might lost to prioritise teams is.... Tyrel Dodson is the closest I can come up with?

Dodson is getting good reps in camp rn

[Kelly the Dog]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But the counter is we remain in a division with Belichick and Flores who both place extra weight on STs. I'd hate to lose a game in division on a special teams play the way we did at home to the Pats in 2019. 

 

Of course there is a balance about how many guys you keep for teams but I at the moment I am struggling to see who the exciting non-teams playing backup we might lost to prioritise teams is.... Tyrel Dodson is the closest I can come up with?

Eba? A drafted player we want to develop like one of the OL or Stevenson? Another CB or S like Lewis or Hamlin? Christian Wade? Quintin Morris?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Dodson is getting good reps in camp rn

 

Good to hear. I am a big Dodson guy. I had a 5th round grade on him and said before that draft I thought he was perfect for McDermott's scheme. I'd love to keep him. I'd lean towards cutting Klein myself but I doubt the Bills will do that. I suspect if it is 6 linebackers Dodson makes it but it is 5 he might miss out. 

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Eba? A drafted player we want to develop like one of the OL or Stevenson? Another CB or S like Lewis or Hamlin? Christian Wade? Quintin Morris?

 

Do you mean Obada? I think he makes it regardless. Hamlin will make it. None of the others are so obviously better than the players you are petitioning for them to replace who play teams. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Good to hear. I am a big Dodson guy. I had a 5th round grade on him and said before that draft I thought he was perfect for McDermott's scheme. I'd love to keep him. I'd lean towards cutting Klein myself but I doubt the Bills will do that. I suspect if it is 6 linebackers Dodson makes it but it is 5 he might miss out. 

 

Do you mean Obada? I think he makes it regardless. Hamlin will make it. None of the others are so obviously better than the players you are petitioning for them to replace who play teams. 

I dont understand why Carolina gave up on Obada, his age?  He looks like a steal.

[Kelly the Dog]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Do you mean Obada? I think he makes it regardless. Hamlin will make it. None of the others are so obviously better than the players you are petitioning for them to replace who play teams. 

I combined Efe and Obada to get Eba?

 

I meant if, say, Kumerow is a good gunner and not substantially worse than Taiwan, we keep a player at a different position because Taiwan adds nothing as a RB. It’s not ignoring ST. Especially with more than a couple studs on ST.
 

I also think we are likely in for a surprise cut at DE because of numbers. Because of our top two rookie OLrawness, I’d like to keep an extra OL. I’d like to add a vet TE or CB. There are a lot of spots we could use a wee bit of help. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I combined Efe and Obada to get Eba?

 

I meant if, say, Kumerow is a good gunner and not substantially worse than Taiwan, we keep a player at a different position because Taiwan adds nothing as a RB. It’s not ignoring ST. Especially with more than a couple studs on ST.
 

I also think we are likely in for a surprise cut at DE because of numbers. Because of our top two rookie OLrawness, I’d like to keep an extra OL. I’d like to add a vet TE or CB. There are a lot of spots we could use a wee bit of help. 

 

I think Taiwan's spot is potentially a little dicey - Kumerow and Brieda are competing for it - but someone is going to have to show they can do the job at least almost as well as him. Keeping someone who is barely going to get on the field on offense as your 6th receiver over someone who is superior at gunner and will be on the field at change of possession is folly for a team in the Superbowl window. It is also not as though Kumerow is some hot young prospect. He is 29. Personally I'd always put my top 2 gunners on any roster. I suspect if Jones is still clearly in the Bills top 2 he will be on the team. 

 

Other than Jones who that you think is making it for teams reasons do you want to cut? 

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I combined Efe and Obada to get Eba?

 

I meant if, say, Kumerow is a good gunner and not substantially worse than Taiwan, we keep a player at a different position because Taiwan adds nothing as a RB. It’s not ignoring ST. Especially with more than a couple studs on ST.
 

I also think we are likely in for a surprise cut at DE because of numbers. Because of our top two rookie OLrawness, I’d like to keep an extra OL. I’d like to add a vet TE or CB. There are a lot of spots we could use a wee bit of help. 

Almost inevitable after you two top picks are DEs and you bring in Obada.

 

I think re our Rookie OLineman, i think they try and stash them on the practice squad.

 

A vet CB or TE yes but ONLY if they are real rock stars that we can afford.

[Kelly the Dog]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Taiwan's spot is potentially a little dicey - Kumerow and Brieda are competing for it - but someone is going to have to show they can do the job at least almost as well as him. Keeping someone who is barely going to get on the field on offense as your 6th receiver over someone who is superior at gunner and will be on the field at change of possession is folly for a team in the Superbowl window. It is also not as though Kumerow is some hot young prospect. He is 29. Personally I'd always put my top 2 gunners on any roster. I suspect if Jones is still clearly in the Bills top 2 he will be on the team. 

 

Other than Jones who that you think is making it for teams reasons do you want to cut? 

 

 

Johnson has shown flashes as a edge rusher. I’m not at practice or close enough to team to know if he is about to break out or is just another flasher. I’d like to keep Addison but 6 DE is a lot. The two rookie OL are raw. We likely keep Bates but… There may be no room for a guy like Lamp (I know he’s mostly a guard and they are OT but still an OL). I’m not sure how much Gilliam adds although I like his versatility. 

[IgotBILLStopay]

2 hours ago, MWK said:

How many special teams only players do we need? Including the 3 specialists (obviously) and Matakevich, if we keep those two we will have 6 special teams only players on the team. And that doesn't even consider Taiwan Jones and Andre Smith, who are also likely to make the roster, putting us at 8. We don't need 5 guys who can't actually play their listed positions. Johnson making the roster over someone like Obada or Zimmer would be a big mistake. Johnson has shown next to nothing as a defensive end. 

I too prefer Obada / Zimmer over Johnson - but Farwell came out strongly in support of Johnson today - that does increase the likelihood that Johnson stays. That being said, Frazier supported Zimmer strongly and Obada has been outstanding in camp - so maybe, just maybe, the Bills might have to trade Jerry Hughes to keep all these other guys.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Johnson has shown flashes as a edge rusher. I’m not at practice or close enough to team to know if he is about to break out or is just another flasher. I’d like to keep Addison but 6 DE is a lot. The two rookie OL are raw. We likely keep Bates but… There may be no room for a guy like Lamp (I know he’s mostly a guard and they are OT but still an OL). I’m not sure how much Gilliam adds although I like his versatility. 

 

I don't think Johnson will make it, regardless. Even if you are lukewarm on Gilliam they are not going with two Tight Ends and no full backs. If he is out it isn't to allow Tommy Doyle or Stevenson to stay. If you are arguing you'd rather keep Sweeney than Gilliam fair enough but I disagree. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Johnson will make it, regardless. Even if you are lukewarm on Gilliam they are not going with two Tight Ends and no full backs. If he is out it isn't to allow Tommy Doyle or Stevenson to stay. If you are arguing you'd rather keep Sweeney than Gilliam fair enough but I disagree. 

Johnson fits the physical mold quite often of what they are looking for, more athletically gifted but very raw (Edmunds, J Allen) that needs to gain experience &  stronger,  they love his long arms just like Rousseau

[Kelly the Dog]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Johnson will make it, regardless. Even if you are lukewarm on Gilliam they are not going with two Tight Ends and no full backs. If he is out it isn't to allow Tommy Doyle or Stevenson to stay. If you are arguing you'd rather keep Sweeney than Gilliam fair enough but I disagree. 

I think they keep three TE meaning Sweeney makes it (or a vet pick up) regardless of Gilliam.

[djp14150]

Fir a 53 man…

 

4 ST….K,P,LS, returner ( punt returner priestly)

 

23 Offense 

8 OL

2 QB

4 RB

3 TE

5 WR

1 RB/WR/TE

 

23 Defense 

8 DL

5 LB

1 DE/OLB tweeter 

9  DB

 

3 extra players….based on need from injury or a strong young player who might not clear waivers for PS.

[Simon Says]

11 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

I love the breakdown and think you have it exactly right.  The only few things I will add is if the reports of the expanded practice squad are correct along with the added veteran spaces - I wonder if that has some impact to decisions.  We saw last year - the Bills were not afraid to have some veteran “name” players on the PS as protection and they were not afraid to use the call-ups to get some guys into the lineup as needed.  
 

The Bills have CAP space and I wonder if a couple of veterans like Addison and Butler might accept a cut and resign to the PS as a way to stay with the team, but allow the young guys a place on the roster.  That allows a few call ups to make sure you have the experience, but protects the youth.

 

Same thing may go for Hollister if his back takes a bit to get on the field - maybe stick around as a safety net and we will work with you.  
 

The final spot I could see getting some PS love from a veteran would be OL - maybe a Bobby Hart works with the Bills on a cut and resign to the PS as a safety net to allow the team to keep a younger guy, but provide veteran  protections.  
 

It depends upon how much better/how close some of these battles are, but I could definitely see a few veterans decide that sticking with a potential SB team as a PS player this year could be a helpful move instead of being outright cut.

Addison and Butler will not go to the practice squad.  If they are cut, other teams will be interested. Even if they were eligible I doubt it would happen . 

[Matt_In_NH]

DL OL WR5 WR6