Public vs Private Financing for All NFL Teams

[gjv]

I don't believe Buffalo has the economic infrastructure to support a billion dollar football stadium, regardless who pays for it. As a "Buffalo" Bills fan, I'm hoping for two financial outcomes as it relates to the new stadium issue. First, the Pegulas and  future owners of the Bills are satisfied with the returns the team generates, and are not looking to maximize their NFL franchise investment. Second, the NFL does not require the Bills to build a stadium that is not financially feasible for Buffalo. 

[Kwai San]

19 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

pretty sure Pegs doesn't want to be in the sports real estate business .. if the constituents want a new stadium to be used for any number of other events having nothing to do with the NFL, they should pay most of the cost; Pegs just wants to use it 10 times per year.   this is all posturing/negotiating.   frankly, given the tiny size of the WNY market in terms of population/income I still see no reason for a Billion + stadium that will do nothing other than completely price out the average fan and turn the in-stadium fan base into the "Aud Club" types , not Bills Mafia.. just sayin

 

I haven't made it all the way thru this thread but Pegs is ALREADY in the Sports Real Estate business, see downtown B-lo and the attendant 716 Bar and related buildings/info structure associated with the Sabres.  This will just be another feather in Kim's cap to create the megaplex in OP.  Of course you are right on the money that this will price out the average Mafia fan and not by a little but by A LOT!  The rich get richer........

[BarleyNY]

Say hello to PSLs.  I can’t tell you how much I hate them, though I understand why they’re incorporated into stadium financing.  One facet that gets glossed over is that they are a revenue stream for the team.  It works this way: Initial PSL revenue goes to fund the stadium.  100% would be expected to sell initially.  That would certainly be the case here with the team’s current success.  As long as the team continues that success those people wanting to give up their season tickets would be able to sell their PSLs to those in line.  No big deal.  But eventually there would be down years.  When season ticket demand falls off to the point of no waiting list, then PSL owners who no longer wanted their PSLs would have to sell at a discount or outright eat their PSL fee and turn them back in to the team.  (A lot of people ate their PSLs in Cleveland.)  Then the team would get to re-sell them at full cost and pocket the money.  So a team that cycled between good and bad stretches could actually make more on PSL/ticket sales than one that was consistently good.  Which really sucks IMO. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by BarleyNY

[machine gun kelly]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:14 PM, DJB said:

Only 22 million to build highmark? 

 

Place must be a dump. 

And I think you’re Fiat cost $24 back then. 😛

[Saxum]

7 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Say hello to PSLs.  I can’t tell you how much I hate them, though I understand why they’re incorporated into stadium financing.  One facet that gets glossed over is that they are a revenue stream for the team.  It works this way: Initial PSL revenue goes to fund the stadium.  100% would be expected to sell initially.  That would certainly be the case here with the team’s current success.  As long as the team continues that success those people wanting to give up their season tickets would be able to sell their PSLs to those in line.  No big deal.  But eventually there would be down years.  When season ticket demand falls off to the point of no waiting list, then PSL owners who no longer wanted their PSLs would have to sell at a discount or outright eat their PSL fee and turn them back in to the team.  (A lot of people ate their PSLs in Cleveland.)  Then the team would get to re-sell them at full cost and pocket the money.  So a team that cycled between good and bad stretches could actually make more on PSL/ticket sales than one that was consistently good.  Which really sucks IMO. 

 

The Washington Team Football (WTF) acted like a timeshare company and attempted to pursue people out of work and purchasers heirs to keep paying Personal Suck Licenses (PSLs).

[Mr Info]

7 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Say hello to PSLs.  I can’t tell you how much I hate them, though I understand why they’re incorporated into stadium financing.  

 

24 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

The Washington Team Football (WTF) acted like a timeshare company and attempted to pursue people out of work and purchasers heirs to keep paying Personal Suck Licenses (PSLs).

This has been discussed previously in other threads but the Bills already include PSLs in their club seats. Certainly, it would be higher with a new stadium but this has been happening for a while.

[BarleyNY]

39 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

The Washington Team Football (WTF) acted like a timeshare company and attempted to pursue people out of work and purchasers heirs to keep paying Personal Suck Licenses (PSLs).

I heard about that.  Sad, but par for the course for Snyder.  

11 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

 

This has been discussed previously in other threads but the Bills already include PSLs in their club seats. Certainly, it would be higher with a new stadium but this has been happening for a while.

I would expect PSLs to be part of every or almost every seat at the new stadium. 

[purple haze]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:49 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You have to determine how many events you could host in a year-round facility. It's a chicken-or-egg thing. There's never been a Final Four in Buffalo, but there's also no venue that could host a Final Four either. Create not just a stadium but a hotel & retail complex ala Patriot Place too. Tell me a OP doesn't need some nicer hotels!

 

 

"Jerry World" AT&T Stadium. There's probably others.

A Final Four ain’t happening in Orchard Park no matter what.  Organizations put events like that in downtown, urban areas where there are myriad restaurants, bars, nightclubs, etc.  No visitors to a city want to be way out in the suburbs.  That’s why building  a covered stadium with an eye toward conventions won’t happen either.  Not in OP.    A covered facility in OP makes no sense.  It will significantly add to the cost of construction for little to no return.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by purple haze

[RyanC883]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:40 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

There are any number of ways to make this work. It could be 100% public financed but that doesn't mean straight out-of-taxpayer-pockets. There are bonds, loans, tax increments, leases, retail development, meals and lodging taxes, all spread over 30 years. The trick is for the stadium to pay itself off over time. That's why I think it really needs to be a dome.

 

100 percent agree it should be a dome. 

14 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Say hello to PSLs.  I can’t tell you how much I hate them, though I understand why they’re incorporated into stadium financing.  One facet that gets glossed over is that they are a revenue stream for the team.  It works this way: Initial PSL revenue goes to fund the stadium.  100% would be expected to sell initially.  That would certainly be the case here with the team’s current success.  As long as the team continues that success those people wanting to give up their season tickets would be able to sell their PSLs to those in line.  No big deal.  But eventually there would be down years.  When season ticket demand falls off to the point of no waiting list, then PSL owners who no longer wanted their PSLs would have to sell at a discount or outright eat their PSL fee and turn them back in to the team.  (A lot of people ate their PSLs in Cleveland.)  Then the team would get to re-sell them at full cost and pocket the money.  So a team that cycled between good and bad stretches could actually make more on PSL/ticket sales than one that was consistently good.  Which really sucks IMO. 

 

I don’t see people shelling out for a PSL at a new outdoor stadium.  If it’s a dome that would be a different story.