Public vs Private Financing for All NFL Teams

[Irv]

If this needs to merge wiht a another thread, my apologies.  I looked up the financing for all NFL teams stadiums and made a table.  I think the idea that a new Bills stadium be fully publicly funded is a little off the mark based on these numbers:

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Irv

[DJB]

Only 22 million to build highmark? 

 

Place must be a dump. 

[WhoTom]

3 minutes ago, DJB said:

Only 22 million to build highmark? 

 

Place must be a dump. 

 

Adjusted for inflation, it's $154,054,433 in 2021 dollars. Still a bargain compared to the behemoths people are building now.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

Adjusted for inflation, it's $154,054,433 in 2021 dollars. Still a bargain compared to the behemoths people are building now.

 

 

Someone called Rich/RWS/NewEra/Highmark Stadium a cement pond. Good analogy. Anything that's mostly in the ground is cheaper to build. That's why I don't get the $1.1B price quote.

17 minutes ago, DJB said:

Only 22 million to build highmark? 

 

Place must be a dump. 

 

Remember the old Shaeffer/Sullivan Stadium in Foxboro? Opened the same year as Rich. Cost $6MM. Looked like a high school stadium on steroids. All aluminum benches. THAT was a dump!

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

That's a chart.  Table be what Bills fans jump onto.  Word. 
*
EDIT: It IS a very good chart.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Motorin']

21 minutes ago, Irv said:

If this needs to merge wiht a another thread, my apologies.  I looked up the financing for all NFL teams stadiums and made a table.  I think the idea that a new Bills stadium be fully publicly funded is a little off the mark based on these numbers:

 

 

 

These numbers are meaningless without an additional column that shows any lease totals that publicly funded stadiums receive in turn. 

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

These numbers are meaningless without an additional column that shows any lease totals that publicly funded stadiums receive in turn. 

 

There are any number of ways to make this work. It could be 100% public financed but that doesn't mean straight out-of-taxpayer-pockets. There are bonds, loans, tax increments, leases, retail development, meals and lodging taxes, all spread over 30 years. The trick is for the stadium to pay itself off over time. That's why I think it really needs to be a dome.

Edited August 2, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Rochesterfan]

25 minutes ago, Irv said:

If this needs to merge wiht a another thread, my apologies.  I looked up the financing for all NFL teams stadiums and made a table.  I think the idea that a new Bills stadium be fully publicly funded is a little off the mark based on these numbers:

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

These numbers are meaningless without an additional column that shows any lease totals that publicly funded stadiums receive in turn. 

 

Agreed - also meaningless without PSLs and amount of tax deferred money provided to the owner. 
 

It also doesn’t show who is paying maintenance and upgrade costs.

 

A split will happen, but the public will be funding the majority whether it is stadium cost and payment or additional land at less charge and tax free lease of the site or other subsidies.

[BuffaloBill]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

There are any number of ways to make this work. It could be 100% public financed but that doesn't mean straight out-of-taxpayer-pockets. There are bonds, loans, tax increments, leases, retail development, meals and lodging taxes, all spread over 30 years. The trick is for the stadium to pay itself off over time. That's why I think it really needs to be a dome.

 

 

You assume a stadium that has a dome will pay for itself. That is a faulty decision nearly anywhere but particularly so in Buffalo.  Box and ticket revenue will not sustain the price tag, 

[Jauronimo]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

There are any number of ways to make this work. It could be 100% public financed but that doesn't mean straight out-of-taxpayer-pockets. There are bonds, loans, tax increments, leases, retail development, meals and lodging taxes, all spread over 30 years. The trick is for the stadium to pay itself off over time. That's why I think it really needs to be a dome.

Has that ever happened in the history of stadiums?

[Mango]

It seems like the stadiums built to the cost of the Pegula ask are around the 30-40% publicly funded mark. I think that is part of the reason fans are offended. 

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Agreed - also meaningless without PSLs and amount of tax deferred money provided to the owner. 
 

It also doesn’t show who is paying maintenance and upgrade costs.

 

A split will happen, but the public will be funding the majority whether it is stadium cost and payment or additional land at less charge and tax free lease of the site or other subsidies.

 

Just now, Jauronimo said:

Has that ever happened in the history of stadiums?

 

San Francisco is locked into 40 year lease at 25M per year, while the public subsidized 114M. So it will literally be over 800M in profit over 40 years. 

 

I don't know if tax breaks came from the deal though/

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

You assume a stadium that has a dome will pay for itself. That is a faulty decision nearly anywhere but particularly so in Buffalo.  Box and ticket revenue will not sustain the price tag, 

 

You have to determine how many events you could host in a year-round facility. It's a chicken-or-egg thing. There's never been a Final Four in Buffalo, but there's also no venue that could host a Final Four either. Create not just a stadium but a hotel & retail complex ala Patriot Place too. Tell me a OP doesn't need some nicer hotels!

 

6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Has that ever happened in the history of stadiums?

 

"Jerry World" AT&T Stadium. There's probably others.

[ProcessTruster]

pretty sure Pegs doesn't want to be in the sports real estate business .. if the constituents want a new stadium to be used for any number of other events having nothing to do with the NFL, they should pay most of the cost; Pegs just wants to use it 10 times per year.   this is all posturing/negotiating.   frankly, given the tiny size of the WNY market in terms of population/income I still see no reason for a Billion + stadium that will do nothing other than completely price out the average fan and turn the in-stadium fan base into the "Aud Club" types , not Bills Mafia.. just sayin

[Hapless Bills Fan]

39 minutes ago, Irv said:

If this needs to merge wiht a another thread, my apologies.  I looked up the financing for all NFL teams stadiums and made a table.  I think the idea that a new Bills stadium be fully publicly funded is a little off the mark based on these numbers:

 

 

 

Good work....

 

So basically 0 out of 32 stadia were 100% publicly funded?

[section122]

7 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Has that ever happened in the history of stadiums?

 

AT&T Stadium

 

https://www.hksinc.com/our-news/articles/ten-years-later-att-stadium-remains-golden-gift-that-keeps-on-giving/

 

It is indeed rare though

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

pretty sure Pegs doesn't want to be in the sports real estate business .. if the constituents want a new stadium to be used for any number of other events having nothing to do with the NFL, they should pay most of the cost; Pegs just wants to use it 10 times per year.   this is all posturing/negotiating.   frankly, given the tiny size of the WNY market in terms of population/income I still see no reason for a Billion + stadium that will do nothing other than completely price out the average fan and turn the in-stadium fan base into the "Aud Club" types , not Bills Mafia.. just sayin

 

But here's the thing...what are the "any number of other events" a purpose-built outdoor football stadium in WNY may be used for?

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good work....

 

So basically 0 out of 32 stadia were 100% publicly funded?

Where do you get that. I see four that were 100% public.

[section122]

5 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

pretty sure Pegs doesn't want to be in the sports real estate business .. if the constituents want a new stadium to be used for any number of other events having nothing to do with the NFL, they should pay most of the cost; Pegs just wants to use it 10 times per year.   this is all posturing/negotiating.   frankly, given the tiny size of the WNY market in terms of population/income I still see no reason for a Billion + stadium that will do nothing other than completely price out the average fan and turn the in-stadium fan base into the "Aud Club" types , not Bills Mafia.. just sayin

 

I read that teams prefer to be tenants so they are not responsible for upkeep and depreciation.  No idea if that is true but it does make some sense especially as you said it has limited use for the NFL.

[RiotAct]

45 minutes ago, DJB said:

Only 22 million to build highmark? 

 

Place must be a dump. 

it’s OUR dump.