Why not keep Kumerow

[machine gun kelly]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:00 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Last year we had Diggs/Brown/Beasley/Davis/McKenzie/Roberts

 

This year we have Diggs/Sanders/Beasley/Davis.  It all depends upon how things shake out - if McKenzie wins the KR/PR job and also gets time on the gadget plays and as the backup to Beasley in the slot, then the door opens for another WR to be on the roster.  Kumerow, as a big target with veteran savvy who can contribute on ST, would be a very reasonable choice.  To beat him out, I think Stevenson or Hodgins have to be ready to contribute more as WR AND contribute on teams (again, this is assuming that McKenzie wins the KR/PR job)

 

I commented that I'd seen some good blocking in the backfield by Kumerow in another thread and said I'd look for some clips.

Here's one of Kumerow (#16) on the blindside handling Jadaveon Clowney:

 

Here's another one of Kumerow in the backfield just erasing Panthers safety Eric Reid to spring a nice run play.  Wipes him all the way across and takes him out of the play (about :50 in if you wanna skip the GB hype). 

 

Bonus: nice ST tackle at 1:40

 

 

If McKenzie doesn't claim the KR/PR spot - if, for example, Stefenson or Powell claim one or the other or both - then of course the situation changes.

It just seems to me you’re 5th and 6th WR’s have to be ST players who can due to injury play of absolutely necessary as a WR.  So who are the best two to play ST?  McKenzie (history of fumbling punts but maybe he has improved it not), Stephenson, Hodgins, or Kunerow.

 

We’ll see in camp, but Duke is all but gone.  I trust McD will figure it out.  If I had to guess it would be Stephenson and McKenzie and others might be offered PS.

[Simon Says]

On 7/31/2021 at 6:50 PM, BillsFanForever19 said:

Why not? Because you generally only keep 5-6 WR's at a time. I've seen us carry 7 once or twice, but it's not very common. Plus, this season everyone wants us to keep a 6th Defensive End and a 6th Cornerback as well. And you can't keep an extra guy at all these positions without severely hindering the 53 at depth in a number of places to make it happen. 

 

So long story short, which two players do you cut at WR when your roster looks like this?

 

Stefon Diggs

Cole Beasley

Emmanuel Sanders

Gabe Davis

Isaiah McKenzie

Marquez Stevenson (2021 Draft Pick)

Isaiah Hodgins (2020 Draft Pick)

Jake Kumerow

 

I'm a Kumerow fan. But we're so deep, it's really uphill sledding for him.

Special teams is a consideration.  McKenzie  Stevenson and the rarely-mentioned Brandon Powell are competing for KO/ PR duties. 

On 7/31/2021 at 10:17 PM, TPS said:

I think the early buzz was about Hodgins, so Kumerow was overlooked or forgotten to some extent, despite the fact that Hodgins hasn't played an NFL game. One of the two will make the 53, and Kumerow is the odds on favorite because of his experience and ST ability.  I don't think it will be all that difficult to get Hodgins on the PS since he's a 7th round draft pick that hasn't played an NFL game, and he needs that experience.

 

I think the WRs will be Diggs, Sanders, Beasley, Davis, McKenzie, and Kumerow, with Hodgins and Stevenson on the PS.

Who do you think returns punts and kickoffs? McKenzie might be the PR but isn't handling both. Could Breida or Taiwan Jones be the kickoff returner?

[TPS]

1 hour ago, Georgie said:

Special teams is a consideration.  McKenzie  Stevenson and the rarely-mentioned Brandon Powell are competing for KO/ PR duties. 

Who do you think returns punts and kickoffs? McKenzie might be the PR but isn't handling both. Could Breida or Taiwan Jones be the kickoff returner?

Why can't McKenzie handle both? 

[stevewin]

17 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

Kumerow is already showing out as gunner and as a potential special teams player - so unless Stevenson really picks it up - I think Kumerow has an advantage.

Wouldn't mind if Kumerow took Taiwan's spot on ST - I hate reserving a spot for a ST-only player if you can get someone who will also contribute on off/def to do it at least competently.  Replace Jones and you can keep another position player.

 

I think the reports that Kumerow has been lining up at other positions, his ST contribution, McD's glue comment, and the fact that he's standing out at WR in camp make his chances look pretty good at this point 

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, stevewin said:

Wouldn't mind if Kumerow took Taiwan's spot on ST - I hate reserving a spot for a ST-only player if you can get someone who will also contribute on off/def to do it at least competently.  Replace Jones and you can keep another position player.

 

I think the reports that Kumerow has been lining up at other positions, his ST contribution, McD's glue comment, and the fact that he's standing out at WR in camp make his chances look pretty good at this point 

 

I think a lot of people feel this way, but when you replace a “ST only” player with someone that you think will contribute - most often you are going to be disappointed in the fact that the contributor will essentially become a new “ST only” player not both a ST players and a contributor.  
 

I only do it if the players are super close on special teams.  For example - if the Bills feel Kumerow is just as good of a gunner or at least very close because the added benefit of Kumerow as a #7 WR versus Jones as a #4 RB are minimal - neither are going to see much live game action outside of Special teams.

 

Even McKenzie winning the kick and punt returns will most likely put a dent in his offense play numbers.

 

It does help in cases of injury during a game, but for example Jones when given a chance at RB has shown himself to be competent and actually has proven to be very good at receiving out of the backfield, but like Tasker years ago - his ability on special teams means you rarely get to see that side.  
 

The same thing will happen if Jones is replaced by Kumerow - suddenly Kumerow becomes Andre Roberts - a Special teams guy that would struggle in the offensive flow because of the time needed to master special teams.

 

Every team has a core group of guys that become basically special teams mavens and we rarely see them do anything else - most are capable of playing on offense or defense if given the opportunity and allowed to prepare like other players, but you give that up to a degree to study and prepare for the role on special teams.

[warrior9]

On 8/4/2021 at 7:54 AM, Rochesterfan said:

 

I think a lot of people feel this way, but when you replace a “ST only” player with someone that you think will contribute - most often you are going to be disappointed in the fact that the contributor will essentially become a new “ST only” player not both a ST players and a contributor.  
 

I only do it if the players are super close on special teams.  For example - if the Bills feel Kumerow is just as good of a gunner or at least very close because the added benefit of Kumerow as a #7 WR versus Jones as a #4 RB are minimal - neither are going to see much live game action outside of Special teams.

 

Even McKenzie winning the kick and punt returns will most likely put a dent in his offense play numbers.

 

It does help in cases of injury during a game, but for example Jones when given a chance at RB has shown himself to be competent and actually has proven to be very good at receiving out of the backfield, but like Tasker years ago - his ability on special teams means you rarely get to see that side.  
 

The same thing will happen if Jones is replaced by Kumerow - suddenly Kumerow becomes Andre Roberts - a Special teams guy that would struggle in the offensive flow because of the time needed to master special teams.

 

Every team has a core group of guys that become basically special teams mavens and we rarely see them do anything else - most are capable of playing on offense or defense if given the opportunity and allowed to prepare like other players, but you give that up to a degree to study and prepare for the role on special teams.

 

This is where I'm struggling. Admittedly, I haven't seen Kumerow in practice so I can't say either way. What I will say is.. if they keep Kumerow over Jones, he will be WAY more impactful than Roberts was on offense. He's better in almost every facet of being a WR.

 

I'm struggling because Kumerow is 29. Do we want him taking potential snaps(or a roster spot) from Stevenson/ Hodgins if they are of equal ability? I don't think either will last on practice squad (Stevenson definitely wouldn't). If Kumerow making the team doesn't affect that.... why not? 

[foreboding]

Well at least there will be some Pre-season fun! 

 

Will Jesus make the team?

Is UK Wade ready to breakout?

Can Fromm hit the broadside of a barn?

[ctk232]

On 7/31/2021 at 6:50 PM, BillsFanForever19 said:

Why not? Because you generally only keep 5-6 WR's at a time. I've seen us carry 7 once or twice, but it's not very common. Plus, this season everyone wants us to keep a 6th Defensive End and a 6th Cornerback as well. And you can't keep an extra guy at all these positions without severely hindering the 53 at depth in a number of places to make it happen. 

 

So long story short, which two players do you cut at WR when your roster looks like this?

 

Stefon Diggs

Cole Beasley

Emmanuel Sanders

Gabe Davis

Isaiah McKenzie

Marquez Stevenson (2021 Draft Pick)

Isaiah Hodgins (2020 Draft Pick)

Jake Kumerow

 

I'm a Kumerow fan. But we're so deep, it's really uphill sledding for him.

Don’t forget Gentry, Powell, and Williams. But even so, how is it uphill? PS for Stevenson and likely Hodgins (pending eligibility). Kumerow into that 6th and rest are cut.
 

Outside your top 5 there the argument would be not only is Kumerow’s receiving skill comparable with Stevenson and Hodgins, he adds size over both. At times he plays like a versatile, coordinated TE in how he runs routes and competes for catches. Furthermore, what will likely be more of the deciding factor in Kumerow making the roster over others is his ability to play ST at a competitive level in addition to his receiving ability. He outplayed Taiwan Jones for the stretch he was out at gunner last year, even when Jones was cleared to return. 
 

All this to say I wouldn’t be surprised in the least to see Kumerow at the 6th spot due to his greater utility as an actual roster player versus just a position player. Depending on how we line up at KR/PR it sounds like McKenzie might be the guy given Powell’s performance in camp thus far, and Stevenson might be called up from PS if needed, but otherwise haven’t heard/seen much to indicate otherwise.

[skibum]

If Kumerow is really as good as everyone wants him to be, would having him and McKenzie (and everyone else) allow the Bills to trade Beasley and his Twitter account for a stud player? Beasley's a great player, no doubt; but is he really on the Untouchables list?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 8/4/2021 at 6:54 AM, Rochesterfan said:

I think a lot of people feel this way, but when you replace a “ST only” player with someone that you think will contribute - most often you are going to be disappointed in the fact that the contributor will essentially become a new “ST only” player not both a ST players and a contributor.  
 

I only do it if the players are super close on special teams.  For example - if the Bills feel Kumerow is just as good of a gunner or at least very close because the added benefit of Kumerow as a #7 WR versus Jones as a #4 RB are minimal - neither are going to see much live game action outside of Special teams.

 

Even McKenzie winning the kick and punt returns will most likely put a dent in his offense play numbers.

 

It does help in cases of injury during a game, but for example Jones when given a chance at RB has shown himself to be competent and actually has proven to be very good at receiving out of the backfield, but like Tasker years ago - his ability on special teams means you rarely get to see that side.

 

I agree with the first part.  A backup offensive or defensive player doesn't usually become an offensive or defensive contributor - unless someone is hurt. 

 

This last is the part where I think a lot of people would disagree.  I don't think Jones has shown himself to be that competent as an RB and he was 0 for 2 catching passes last season. 

 

I think part of people's concern with Jones isn't so much that we don't see him contribute on offense too often, but that he's 33, and if Beane is going to talk about hitting on younger, cheaper talent - sooner or later the coaches have to fall in line with that and actually give a roster spot to a young, developmental player instead of an older ST specialist who has had his cameos on offense and hasn't made good. 

 

Yes, the younger guys may not be as good on ST but at some point we have to prioritize developing talent.

 

McDermott said something at one point last season, to the effect that coaches don't like to play rookies because it's a lot more work preparing them for the game, but "we have to get through that".  (This was just before Epenesa started to get more snaps)

 

19 minutes ago, skibum said:

If Kumerow is really as good as everyone wants him to be, would having him and McKenzie (and everyone else) allow the Bills to trade Beasley and his Twitter account for a stud player? Beasley's a great player, no doubt; but is he really on the Untouchables list?

 

Yes, I think he is, and no reports out of camp have made anyone think differently.