Why not keep Kumerow

[Don Otreply]

20 minutes ago, jwhit34 said:

I have seen this a few times now on various threads, are they inviting Jeff Gilooly to camp? 

Knee injury specialist LLC

[BigAl2526]

Kumerow is making a strong case for himself.  At the bottom end of your depth chart, you may be looking a bit toward the future.  I would expect if Isaiah Hodgins or Marquez Stevenson can grade out similarly to Kumerow through training camp and preseason, their youth would be seen as a plus.  Kumerow has to be enough better than those two younger players that the Bills have to opt for the advantage Kumerow gives them this season.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:34 PM, BillsFanForever19 said:

Cutting two draft picks to keep Kumerow? I don't see it.

 

Under McBeane, the Bills overall have kept their 6th round picks at least for one year.  

2017: Tanner Vallejo (released during final cut downs next year)

2018  Ray-Ray McCloud  (released during final cut downs next year)

2019 Jaquan Johnson (still on roster, probable roster “lock” as backup safety)

2020 Tyler Bass.  Bass-o-matic, ‘nuff said

2020 Isaiah Hodgins (last season on IR)

 

So that would be an argument in favor of your point.

 

On the opposite point, in 2017 and 2018 the roster depth was much less, whereas this year it seems deeper - I don’t see Vallejo or McCloud staying on this year’s roster, do you?

 

Eyeball, it looks like in the bottom half of the 6th round (where the better teams draft) it’s about 2/3:1/3

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Under McBeane, the Bills overall have kept their 6th round picks at least for one year.  

 

So that would be an argument in favor of your point.

 

On the opposite point, in 2017 and 2018 the roster depth was much less, whereas this year it seems deeper - I don’t see Vallejo or McCloud staying on this year’s roster, do you?

 

No, I wouldn't. But another thing to keep in mind with Stevenson is that while he was a 6th Rounder - he was our 5th selection this year and in the top half of that round.

 

I don't see our last 6th Rounder Rachad Wildgoose staying on (as our only loss at CB from last season was Norman and Dane Jackson will fill his roster spot on the 53), nor do I see our 7th Rounder Jack Anderson making it.

 

I'm also not high on Isaiah Hodgins' chances as I feel he lacks the speed or return ability that is lacking in our WR core. So those are some Vallejo/McCloud cuts that will come this year that you wouldn't see in other years.

 

But, I do feel that Stevenson (who does have those traits) and our 2nd 6th Damar Hamlin (who will fill Dean Marlowe's roster spot with little competition for it) won't be subjected to possibly being poached. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Another thing to keep in mind with Stevenson is that while he was a 6th Rounder - he was our 5th selection this year and in the top half of that round. I don't see our last 6th Rounder Rachad Wildgoose staying on the 53, nor do I see our 7th Rounder Jack Anderson making it. But I do feel that Stevenson and our 2nd 6th Damar Hamlin (especially from a numbers standpoint at Safety) won't be subjected to possibly being poached. 

 

I personally don’t think the position in the 6th round is going to influence who is kept.  The situation is our WR depth is good, so unless Stevenson wins the KR/PR job or shows rookie route running skills on approximately the level of Gabe Davis last season, there’s not room for him on the roster.  

 

Same principle with Damar Hamlin.  I don’t see us keeping more than 4 safeties, so we have Poyer, Hyde, Joaquon Johnson then whichever of Josh Thomas (last year’s  UDFA signing) or Damar Hamlin plays better at this point.

 

Stevenson is more likely to be poached because he has that uncoachable thing (speed) but what’s the alternative?  Cutting a guy who can contribute this year, when we hope to contend for a championship doesn’t seem worth the trade off.

 

Bottom line the Bills seem likely to cut some players I’m sure they would rather keep.  And that’s a Good Problem.

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I personally don’t think the position in the 6th round is going to influence who is kept.  The situation is our WR depth is good, so unless Stevenson wins the KR/PR job or shows rookie route running skills on approximately the level of Gabe Davis last season, there’s not room for him on the roster.  

 

Same principle with Damar Hamlin.  I don’t see us keeping more than 4 safeties, so we have Poyer, Hyde, Joaquon Johnson then whichever of Josh Thomas (last year’s  UDFA signing) or Damar Hamlin plays better at this point.

 

Stevenson is more likely to be poached because he has that uncoachable thing (speed) but what’s the alternative?  Cutting a guy who can contribute this year, when we hope to contend for a championship doesn’t seem worth the trade off.

 

Bottom line the Bills seem likely to cut some players I’m sure they would rather keep.  And that’s a Good Problem.

 

I only mentioned where he was drafted bc you were mentioning players drafted in the bottom half of the 6th and that didn't apply with Stevenson.

 

Ultimately, it's extremely early in Training Camp to be crowning anyone. But I can't help but feel that the Kumerow hype from fans and the media is getting overblown simply because Rodgers raved about him.

 

 

We're talking about a guy who has been cut 4 times in the past year (once by GB, once by us, twice by NO). He's had some reported good practices. But so has Stevenson.

 

 

Guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. And yes, it's a good problem we have right now. But my gut has Stevenson over Kumerow and Hodgins.

Edited August 2, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[Rico]

On 8/1/2021 at 9:37 AM, Sherlock Holmes said:

 

Keep them both

Keep them both with Beasley & trade Diggs for Kupp?

[FilthyBeast]

I get the Kumerow love since he's essentially the new Duke Williams (not too mentioned the GB/Rogers endorsement).

 

But what real playing time is he going to get behind Diggs/Beasely/Sanders/Davis/etc?

 

He does have the ST factor but what is going to be most critical and given preference for the 5th/6th WR spots is kick return ability which puts him at a disadvantage over several others at the bottom of the depth chart jockeying for a roster spot.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, FilthyBeast said:

I get the Kumerow love since he's essentially the new Duke Williams (not too mentioned the GB/Rogers endorsement).

 

But what real playing time is he going to get behind Diggs/Beasely/Sanders/Davis/etc?

 

He does have the ST factor but what is going to be most critical and given preference for the 5th/6th WR spots is kick return ability which puts him at a disadvantage over several others at the bottom of the depth chart jockeying for a roster spot.

 

It sounds like he might make Davis work hard to keep his starting spot.  

[FilthyBeast]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

It sounds like he might make Davis work hard to keep his starting spot.  

 

True but we obviously aren't dumping Davis even if he has a 'sophmore slump'.

[Rocky Landing]

16 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I get the Kumerow love since he's essentially the new Duke Williams (not too mentioned the GB/Rogers endorsement).

 

But what real playing time is he going to get behind Diggs/Beasely/Sanders/Davis/etc?

 

He does have the ST factor but what is going to be most critical and given preference for the 5th/6th WR spots is kick return ability which puts him at a disadvantage over several others at the bottom of the depth chart jockeying for a roster spot.

Well, anyone who gets that slot will have to contribute to ST, so there's that. Also, with the depth we have at WR, I could easily see the #6WR getting worked into the rotation, especially with the number of four WR sets the Bills employed last season (15%, second highest in the league https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html). Add to that the age of our new number two, #1 Sanders, and I think whoever gets that slot will see the field plenty.

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Keep them both with Beasley & trade Diggs for Kupp?

Yes, but also keep Diggs... Trade somebody else for Kupp

[foreboding]

22 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I do not see him as a lock. I've actually been asking the same question the past few weeks. Specifically, why does everyone speak of him so glowingly while completely discounting Stevenson? They were both Draft Picks of the team, in the same round. And personally - for what this WR core is lacking - I value Stevenson's speed and return ability over what Hodgins provides. 

 

Ultimately, it comes down to 4 guys battling for two spots. Isaiah McKenzie, Marquez Stevenson, Isaiah Hodgins, and Jake Kumerow. I think McKenzie's versatility and repore with Allen speaks for itself. Then it's two draft picks and Kumerow. While I could see them giving up on one of the picks - I can't see them giving up both.

Didn't we just resign McKenzie?

[Mango]

I would love to keep Kumerow just to keep pissing off Rodgers honestly. 

[Rico]

32 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Yes, but also keep Diggs... Trade somebody else for Kupp

Easier said than done. If 1 thru 4 are

Kupp

Beasley

Kumerow

Gentry

I don’t think Diggs will be happy.  

[BillsFanForever19]

28 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Didn't we just resign McKenzie?

 

Yes. And although as I stated, I don't see it as likely - McKenzie is not the stone cold locks that Diggs, Beasley, Davis, and Sanders are. He's essentially on a 1 year league minimum deal. So it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that 2/3 of Stevenson, Hodgins, and Kumerow are so undeniable that they cut McKenzie loose. Especially if Stevenson outright wins the KR job.

[Greatdane21]

He would be very hard to cover lined up as a second TE  in third and <5 situations!

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

I get the Kumerow love since he's essentially the new Duke Williams (not too mentioned the GB/Rogers endorsement).

 

But what real playing time is he going to get behind Diggs/Beasely/Sanders/Davis/etc?

 

He does have the ST factor but what is going to be most critical and given preference for the 5th/6th WR spots is kick return ability which puts him at a disadvantage over several others at the bottom of the depth chart jockeying for a roster spot.

 

Last year we had Diggs/Brown/Beasley/Davis/McKenzie/Roberts

 

This year we have Diggs/Sanders/Beasley/Davis.  It all depends upon how things shake out - if McKenzie wins the KR/PR job and also gets time on the gadget plays and as the backup to Beasley in the slot, then the door opens for another WR to be on the roster.  Kumerow, as a big target with veteran savvy who can contribute on ST, would be a very reasonable choice.  To beat him out, I think Stevenson or Hodgins have to be ready to contribute more as WR AND contribute on teams (again, this is assuming that McKenzie wins the KR/PR job)

 

I commented that I'd seen some good blocking in the backfield by Kumerow in another thread and said I'd look for some clips.

Here's one of Kumerow (#16) on the blindside handling Jadaveon Clowney:

 

Here's another one of Kumerow in the backfield just erasing Panthers safety Eric Reid to spring a nice run play.  Wipes him all the way across and takes him out of the play (about :50 in if you wanna skip the GB hype). 

 

Bonus: nice ST tackle at 1:40

 

 

If McKenzie doesn't claim the KR/PR spot - if, for example, Stefenson or Powell claim one or the other or both - then of course the situation changes.

[SCBills]

All things equal, I’d take Stevenson over Kumerow and Hodgins.  
 

We have a QB with the most electric arm in the NFL, and we’ve still barely seen him with a speed threat - outside of Hobbly Brown. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

56 minutes ago, SCBills said:

All things equal, I’d take Stevenson over Kumerow and Hodgins.  
 

We have a QB with the most electric arm in the NFL, and we’ve still barely seen him with a speed threat - outside of Hobbly Brown. 

 

But what does “all things equal” mean to you in this context?