Jake Kumerow… make the team or trade to GB?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Stevenson has a shot but he would have to flat out win the return job. Anything else and I think he has a year on the PS.

 

This.  And I think McDermott and Beane have learnt their lesson the hard way that what one sees in pre-season may not 100% reflect what one gets when it counts.

 

Or maybe I'm just....Hopeful about that.

18 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

And I think he has a much better chance of doing that then people are giving him credit for. McKenzie was cut by the Broncos and ended up here for fumbling too many returns. He had 6 fumbles in 2017, 3 were lost. In 2018, he had 2 more and lost one of them. This is why he wasn't used as a Returner for us very often. Even when we were down a return man, we would often put Micah Hyde back there to return Punts because he was more trusted to cleanly handle them. 

 

That combined with us drafting a return man in Stevenson and I don't see it being a done deal that McKenzie's just being handed the job. I think it's at least an open competition between the two. Or possibly just Stevenson's job in their eyes outright.

 

I don't think McKenzie is "just being handed the job", but even if Stevenson appears to win the job based on pre-season, I think it's highly likely Beane and McDermott will hedge their bets and keep another option on the roster (besides Micah Hyde)

[BillsFanForever19]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I don't think McKenzie is "just being handed the job", but even if Stevenson appears to win the job based on pre-season, I think it's highly likely Beane and McDermott will hedge their bets and keep another option on the roster (besides Micah Hyde)

 

Don't get me wrong, I think McKenzie makes the roster regardless. He has value in this core given his speed, ability out of the slot, rushing skill, and chemistry with Josh. His overall versatility will give him a spot on the 53. But I see it being the same role as he's had since he's been here. Which is not as the primary return man.

 

I see it being a 3 person competition for the last WR on the roster - Stevenson v. Hodgins v. Kumerow. And right now, I value Stevenson's speed and return ability above the other two's size and red zone ability. And I, at least, put him on an even keel in the competition with Hodgins.

 

Again, I don't understand the complete confidence and infatuation fans have with Hodgins and indifference towards Stevenson when they both have the same level of experience in so much as a preseason game - which is zero. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Don't get me wrong, I think McKenzie makes the roster regardless. He has value in this core given his speed, ability out of the slot, rushing skill, and chemistry with Josh. His overall versatility will give him a spot on the 53. But I see it being the same role as he's had since he's been here. Which is not as the primary return man.

 

I see it being a 3 person competition for the last WR on the roster - Stevenson v. Hodgins v. Kumerow. And right now, I value Stevenson's speed and return ability above the other two's size and red zone ability. And I, at least, put him on an even keel in the competition with Hodgins.

 

Again, I don't understand the complete confidence and infatuation fans have with Hodgins and indifference towards Stevenson when they both have the same level of experience in so much as a preseason game - which is zero. 

 

Way too early.  The scouting reports on Stevenson pre-draft were that he had a long way to go to develop as a WR in the league:

Quote

Scheme-specific developmental prospect who needs to do a better job of matching his play speed with his true speed.  Stevenson lacks the ball-tracking and physicality to win contested catches as an outside receiver. He'll be scouted as a slot receiver, but is hindered by unfocused route-running and leggy strides that limit his suddenness to uncover quickly underneath. With coaching, the routes should improve, but he might need a route tree that can keep him on the move and open up chances to separate with his speed. Crossing routes, receiver screens and kick returns show off his instincts as an open-field runner, but he will need to improve his toughness, pass-catching consistency and routes if he wants to make his mark in the pros.

 

We drafted Stevenson because he has that thing you can't coach (speed), but he has to show a lot of development to make the roster as a WR, and I don't think the Bills are going to put all their "return man" eggs in the "what he showed in preseason" basket.  I think there's a good chance he winds up on our practice squad.

 

I actually don't think McKenzie makes the roster unless he wins a spot as KR or PR, hopefully both.

 

As far as competition for KR/PR, let's not forget that Brandon Powell was signed because he returned both punts and kicks for Atlanta last season (17 of each). 
https://buffalowdown.com/2021/07/12/buffalo-bills-2021-player-profile-wide-receiver-brandon-powell/
He is logged as having 2 fumbles but pro-football-reference is ambiguous as to whether these were in the return game or as a WR (he had 18 targets).  So the way I see it, KR/PR is a 3 way competition between McKenzie, Powell, and Stevenson

 

The above link credits Powell with an advantage for returning both punts and kickoffs, but McKenzie had 12 punt returns and 14 KR for the Bills in 2018.  It's widely known that he lost the job for Denver and the Bills acquired him due to 6 fumbles for Denver in 2017.    He fumbled twice for the Bills in 2018 (1 lost), and Micah Hyde took over some of the punt return duties. 

 

Also worth noting that Andre Roberts lost 3 fumbles last season, out of 61 punt and kickoff returns, so a certain number of miscues do happen (though that may be one reason why the Bills said "goodbye")

 

Young players do improve with practice, and McKenzie is said to have been practicing with our new punter down in Florida all summer. 

 

It's also worth noting that RB Matt Breida took a handful of KR for San Francisco in  2018, though I don't know if the Bills are looking at him there.

[T master]

Khmer is a really good player and if Rogers was that pissed that they got rid of him that's one hell of a endorsement ! 

 

What ever Beane and company decide to do with him i believe it will work out for the betterment of the team but if he was here & could develop some more chemistry with Allen that's not a bad thing and could prove to be a very smart move by keeping him !! 

[Don Otreply]

On 7/28/2021 at 6:16 PM, billybrew1 said:

This is our most talented roster under McD that is for sure. You're absolutely right about our emphasis on STs but given more competition (we never had a really deep roster before) it will be interesting to see what we do. Are you intimating Kumerow is a lock due to his ST play? I gotta admit I didn't notice or forgot Kumerow on STs. Was he noticeable?

Talk about this problem it is going to come to a head at DE with Daryl Johnson an excellent STer and not really getting better at DE.... Man, what are we going to do along the whole DL?!  Carry 12? LOL, Talk about keeping guys for STs .... I don't know how effective our DL can be on STs? I hope next year we are great along the DL. Hoping AJ, Ed, Boogie And Groot are solid keepers and with Addison, Star, and Jerry coming off the books Beane can add an impact player perhaps?

And we draft another DL.... We could be dominant there with any luck (and skill).

Are we going to catch the chefs eventually? Look at Tremaine, Ed, AJ, Boogie And Groot. Can Beane draft?

We'll See.... 

I just read Peter King say we reached for Groot but 2 or 3 DL went right after Groot. We just started the run but we had better of gotten the best one.

You might consider that Beane is doing a real good job as our GM, in fact he won league wide recognition for his skills, in your posts that I have read it appears/comes across as you believe all the knocks/opinions that are critical of Beane and his crew, I don’t understand why, or am I misunderstanding what your trying to convey?

 

Do also bear in mind that ALL GMs draft/acquire players that don’t pan out, but ranked against his counterparts on the other thirty one teams, he is the one that got recognized as the best overall just this past season, just sayin,  

 

Go Bills!!!

[letsgoteam]

19 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

It means for HIM he is 2nd most player would count on when he needed to make a play. 

That does not mean player who would catch the 2nd most passes or 2nd most TDs.

When he is in scramble drill he is player who seems to know how to get to an open spot that Rodgers will be looking for.

He is not likely covered by 1st or 2nd CB in most cases.

 

Some QBs-WRs are just in sync with each other.  Fitzpatrick and Stevie Johnson were like that.

That is a great point about Fitz & SJ

[Starr Almighty]

I know this would be a lopsided trade un GB's Favor but Id trade him for Aaron Jones

[Ga boy]

I don’t want to do but would someone post who is the sweeter bromance:  ARod and Kumerow OR Allen and Diggs.  

[Tommy]

If we were to actually make a trade, I doubt it would be anything more than GB sending a conditional 7th round pick for him, where the condition is that he has to make their 53-man roster.

[YoloinOhio]

2 firsts at least

 

 

[Logic]

Based on his involvement in all special teams units and his uptick in offensive productivity this offseason, Kumerow sure looks like he's going to make the team.

I didn't realize he was so old (relatively speaking), at 29 years old. Obviously, you have to put the most productive guys on the 53, but it would be a shame to lose out on the speed of Stevenson or the size and red zone potential of Hodgins, both of whom are a good bit younger than Kumerow.

Put differently, Kumerow may be the biggest contributor THIS season, but both Stevenson and Hodgins seem to have great potential and might be better LONG TERM bets to help the offense. I'd hate to see either of them get snagged off our practice squad.

[RaoulDuke79]

Keep him just to piss off Aaron Rodgers. 

[ColoradoBills]

21 hours ago, Logic said:

Based on his involvement in all special teams units and his uptick in offensive productivity this offseason, Kumerow sure looks like he's going to make the team.

I didn't realize he was so old (relatively speaking), at 29 years old. Obviously, you have to put the most productive guys on the 53, but it would be a shame to lose out on the speed of Stevenson or the size and red zone potential of Hodgins, both of whom are a good bit younger than Kumerow.

Put differently, Kumerow may be the biggest contributor THIS season, but both Stevenson and Hodgins seem to have great potential and might be better LONG TERM bets to help the offense. I'd hate to see either of them get snagged off our practice squad.

 

It's a tough balance to consider.  I'm of the mind with Kumerow that if he is playing like a #5 WR or better in camp and preseason you

don't worry about his age and keep him on the 53.  Ultimately it's what Beane is paid to do so I feel pretty good about that.

 

One thing I consider is although he is 29 in age in football years he is younger.  He hasn't taken much of a beating and still could easily

have 3-4 years of good play.  This whole WR thing is an intriguing thing to watch this summer. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It's a tough balance to consider.  I'm of the mind with Kumerow that if he is playing like a #5 WR or better in camp and preseason you

don't worry about his age and keep him on the 53.  Ultimately it's what Beane is paid to do so I feel pretty good about that.

 

One thing I consider is although he is 29 in age in football years he is younger.  He hasn't taken much of a beating and still could easily

have 3-4 years of good play.  This whole WR thing is an intriguing thing to watch this summer. 

 

So I think the key is the separation from Stevenson and Hodgins. If it is likely 1 from those 3. So if you want to keep a guy 7 or 8 years older he better be a clear and obvious step ahead.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I think the key is the separation from Stevenson and Hodgins. If it is likely 1 from those 3. So if you want to keep a guy 7 or 8 years older he better be a clear and obvious step ahead.

 

Yes exactly.  It's the decision Beane and McDermott will have to make.  Probably got to add ST value and whether they can find a way to hide

the next ranked player for this season.

[Mat68]

I think Kumerow is the best pro right now.  Offers the most on teams.  With preseason lets see what Hodgins and Stevenson add.  I know Stevenson is slotted in for return man but maybe he can play gunner.  

 

Ironiclly, I find the most important part of the preseason will be special teams.  You have the core guys but really one of these young guys needs to make an impact to make the team.  I think Christian Wade should be a guy to watch as thats his path onto the team.