Around the League Training Camp Thread

[White Linen]

I just wish the NFL Network would fairly give more time covering the Cowboys. 

[Boxcar]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

he just realized he need Lasic surgery. So now he can actually tell who’s on his team. He’s gonna end up in the hall of fame 

"He got Lasik" is up there with "He's in the best shape of his life". Maybe Jameis will see the LBs now.

[appoo]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm not sure how you can say he has the mental part when he has 88 career INT's in 5 seasons played.  Bruce Arians has one of the most QB friendly systems ever and Winston threw 30 picks with him in 2019.  30! 

 

He also threw 5100 yards and 33 TDs.  Josh Allen threw for 4700 and 37.

 

What that tells me is that Winston can diagnose a defense perfectly well and slice up a defense with the best of them. You don't throw 5100 yards and 33 TDs without being able to do that. The INTs tells me that he also trusted his arm far too much and took risks that he didn't need to. Hence, my thought that he needed a kick in the arse, to accept that he doesn't have to make a big play every time he drops back, and that check downs are fine.

 

Dude is talented. Absolutely no question there. It's always been about him having the discipline to not risks.

[Big Blitz]

Add the Bengals’ Joe Burrow to the ever-growing list of those off to an atrocious start at training camp.

 

And in Cincinnati, Burrow and the offense struggled in their first padded practice Wednesday.

 

Burrow, the No. 1 pick in the 2020 NFL Draft, was 5-for-12 with an interception in 11-on-11 drills, according to The Athletic. The 24-year-old’s passing was inconsistent and his throws were off target on the whole. He only hit one pass beyond 10 yards the entire day.

 

Cincinnati head coach Zac Taylor said that Burrow is “cleared to do everything,” but the signal caller has muddled through the early stages of camp.

 

In a drill, Burrow appeared timid to get into the action, lifting his leg to avoid close contact with the defense that was pushing toward him, The Athletic reported. It was an odd move during a practice where the defense was instructed to not go full-force at the QB.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/08/04/joe-burrow-bengals-offense-struggling-through-training-camp?utm_source=gmail&utm_campaign=android_nyp

 

 

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, appoo said:

 

He also threw 5100 yards and 33 TDs.  Josh Allen threw for 4700 and 37.

 

What that tells me is that Winston can diagnose a defense perfectly well and slice up a defense with the best of them. You don't throw 5100 yards and 33 TDs without being able to do that. The INTs tells me that he also trusted his arm far too much and took risks that he didn't need to. Hence, my thought that he needed a kick in the arse, to accept that he doesn't have to make a big play every time he drops back, and that check downs are fine.

 

Dude is talented. Absolutely no question there. It's always been about him having the discipline to not risks.

 

He reminds me of Jeff George great armed QB whose discipline was terrible.

[eball]

8 hours ago, appoo said:

Always thought he was one of the 3 or 4 more gifted QBs in the NFL (mental + arm), and just needed a kick in the arse to take the leap to elite. Think he's going to have a pro-bowl/borderline MVP season

 

Oh he’s mental alright:

 

 

[AmishRifle]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Add the Bengals’ Joe Burrow to the ever-growing list of those off to an atrocious start at training camp.

 

And in Cincinnati, Burrow and the offense struggled in their first padded practice Wednesday.

 

Burrow, the No. 1 pick in the 2020 NFL Draft, was 5-for-12 with an interception in 11-on-11 drills, according to The Athletic. The 24-year-old’s passing was inconsistent and his throws were off target on the whole. He only hit one pass beyond 10 yards the entire day.

 

Cincinnati head coach Zac Taylor said that Burrow is “cleared to do everything,” but the signal caller has muddled through the early stages of camp.

 

In a drill, Burrow appeared timid to get into the action, lifting his leg to avoid close contact with the defense that was pushing toward him, The Athletic reported. It was an odd move during a practice where the defense was instructed to not go full-force at the QB.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/08/04/joe-burrow-bengals-offense-struggling-through-training-camp?utm_source=gmail&utm_campaign=android_nyp

 

 

Heard on the radio yesterday that he is still trying to get over his injury from a mental perspective.  Doesn’t completely trust his leg yet either.  Tough time to get through.  Hope he can regain his confidence.

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, AmishRifle said:

Heard on the radio yesterday that he is still trying to get over his injury from a mental perspective.  Doesn’t completely trust his leg yet either.  Tough time to get through.  Hope he can regain his confidence.

Burrow has so much potential, and he seemed quite advanced with the mental aspect of the game. I’ve said from the start that my only concern with Burrow is the franchise he plays for. I hope he’s able to regain his confidence, but I’d be worried the Bengals aren’t going to do enough to help him be successful on the field. There’s no franchise in the league that takes the cheap out more often than the Bengals. 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

6 hours ago, appoo said:

 

He also threw 5100 yards and 33 TDs.  Josh Allen threw for 4700 and 37.

 

What that tells me is that Winston can diagnose a defense perfectly well and slice up a defense with the best of them. You don't throw 5100 yards and 33 TDs without being able to do that. The INTs tells me that he also trusted his arm far too much and took risks that he didn't need to. Hence, my thought that he needed a kick in the arse, to accept that he doesn't have to make a big play every time he drops back, and that check downs are fine.

 

Dude is talented. Absolutely no question there. It's always been about him having the discipline to not risks.

INT’s are not just thrown just because you trust your arm or take too many risks.  INT’s are thrown because you made the wrong read or wrong decision as well.  When you have 88 in 5 seasons, you make a lot of wrong decisions.  That absolutely shows he can’t diagnose a defense.

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm not sure where to put this but it occurs to me the Bills might be able to trade a couple of bubble players for draft picks this offseason.  Specifically, I'm thinking a guy like Daryl Johnson who can play STs and is a decent backup pass rusher might fetch a 5th or 6th from a team like Seattle, and perhaps Horrible Harry could be dealt as well.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 hours ago, Boxcar said:

Sorry, living in Toronto made me so annoyed that the "Toronto Maple Leafs" is spelled wrong that I just started pluralizing random words in the way of "leaves"

As in Toronto leaves Stanley Cup hopes unrealized yet again. 😇

 

10 hours ago, aristocrat said:

he just realized he need Lasic surgery. So now he can actually tell who’s on his team. He’s gonna end up in the hall of fame 

Also easier now to spot supermarket security staff.  Much easier to 'eat a W' now.

[Boxcar]

8 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

As in Toronto leaves Stanley Cup hopes unrealized yet again. 😇

 

Also easier now to spot supermarket security staff.  Much easier to 'eat a W' now.

You don't know how much pleasure I take from their yearly first round failure. That one series against Boston where they were leading by like 3 goals late in the third period in game 7 and still lost was just amazing. The tears I collected on that day sustain me to this day.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Boxcar

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

Burrow has so much potential, and he seemed quite advanced with the mental aspect of the game. I’ve said from the start that my only concern with Burrow is the franchise he plays for. I hope he’s able to regain his confidence, but I’d be worried the Bengals aren’t going to do enough to help him be successful on the field. There’s no franchise in the league that takes the cheap out more often than the Bengals. 

 

So true.  His best move right now is to pretend that he will mentally never get over this injury.  Then ball out for his new team after he’s traded. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, appoo said:

 

He also threw 5100 yards and 33 TDs.  Josh Allen threw for 4700 and 37.

 

What that tells me is that Winston can diagnose a defense perfectly well and slice up a defense with the best of them. You don't throw 5100 yards and 33 TDs without being able to do that. The INTs tells me that he also trusted his arm far too much and took risks that he didn't need to. Hence, my thought that he needed a kick in the arse, to accept that he doesn't have to make a big play every time he drops back, and that check downs are fine.

 

Dude is talented. Absolutely no question there. It's always been about him having the discipline to not risks.

 

HOOOO!  Talk about cherry-picking data, Exhibit A right here.

 

You’re omitting something highly relevant: When Winston threw for those 33 TD, he threw 30 interceptions.  THIRTY.  

 

Show me the OC who thinks a QB who throws 30 interceptions can “diagnose a defense perfectly well and slice up a defense with the best of them” and I’ll show you a  Deed to a bridge in Brooklyn.  And this wasn’t an anomaly.  The previous season he was on-track to throw 25 (normalized to a full season). 

 

“Taking risks he didn’t need to” is another way to say “couldn’t distinguish between a risk and a good play at game speed”.  If he knew what he was doing and could just dial his Risk-O-Meter down when he came back from suspension in 2018, got put back in the starter’s role over Fitz, and a few games later proceeded to throw 4 picks, get sacked 5 times and get benched for Fitz.  I’m sure Koetter had a few choice words for him.  And he CERTAINLY would have dialed it back in 2019 after his 5 pick, 7 sack game.  Instead he went on to throw two more 4 INT games.  Don’t you think Arians tried arse-kicking?  

 

Oh while we’re at it, let’s talk about sacks.  Some pundits consider sacks to be as bad as INTs in that they often result in a COP and can switch the field.  Winston took 47 sacks that cost his team 282 yards in 2019. Tons of sacks are also often a sign of poor QB judgement: the QB either doesn’t recognize the blitz and adjust the protections, or doesn’t know where his “Answers” are, or they’re coverage sacks where he shows poor judgement and hangs onto the ball too long.

 

No, a starting QB who has shown the same sack-taking INT-making proclivities into his 5th season can not be considered a dude who can “diagnose a defense perfectly” and just needs a little boot in the butt.

 

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Burrow has so much potential, and he seemed quite advanced with the mental aspect of the game. I’ve said from the start that my only concern with Burrow is the franchise he plays for. I hope he’s able to regain his confidence, but I’d be worried the Bengals aren’t going to do enough to help him be successful on the field. There’s no franchise in the league that takes the cheap out more often than the Bengals. 

 

 

What, if anything, did they do to shore up their abysmal OL?

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, AmishRifle said:

Heard on the radio yesterday that he is still trying to get over his injury from a mental perspective.  Doesn’t completely trust his leg yet either.  Tough time to get through.  Hope he can regain his confidence.

This will be the toughest part of his rehab. 

[stevewin]

7 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Add the Bengals’ Joe Burrow to the ever-growing list of those off to an atrocious start at training camp.

 

And in Cincinnati, Burrow and the offense struggled in their first padded practice Wednesday.

 

Burrow, the No. 1 pick in the 2020 NFL Draft, was 5-for-12 with an interception in 11-on-11 drills, according to The Athletic. The 24-year-old’s passing was inconsistent and his throws were off target on the whole. He only hit one pass beyond 10 yards the entire day.

 

Cincinnati head coach Zac Taylor said that Burrow is “cleared to do everything,” but the signal caller has muddled through the early stages of camp.

 

In a drill, Burrow appeared timid to get into the action, lifting his leg to avoid close contact with the defense that was pushing toward him, The Athletic reported. It was an odd move during a practice where the defense was instructed to not go full-force at the QB.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/08/04/joe-burrow-bengals-offense-struggling-through-training-camp?utm_source=gmail&utm_campaign=android_nyp

 

 

This after the feel-good story in the athletic how Jordan palmer had dramatically increased his velocity - nothing like facing live bullets tho

 

Quote

“Joe Burrow is gonna go off this year,” Palmer says. “He is going to be a major story and here’s why: He found a way to create more energy on the ball.”

 

[BarleyNY]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

What, if anything, did they do to shore up their abysmal OL?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cincyjungle.com/platform/amp/2021/6/12/22528520/bengals-offensive-line-higher-than-expected-in-updated-rankings

 

Some action taken, but they’ve probably just moved from abysmal to the below average/poor range. 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

HOOOO!  Talk about cherry-picking data, Exhibit A right here.

 

You’re omitting something highly relevant: When Winston threw for those 33 TD, he threw 30 interceptions.  THIRTY.  

 

Show me the OC who thinks a QB who throws 30 interceptions can “diagnose a defense perfectly well and slice up a defense with the best of them” and I’ll show you a  Deed to a bridge in Brooklyn.  And this wasn’t an anomaly.  The previous season he was on-track to throw 25 (normalized to a full season). 

 

“Taking risks he didn’t need to” is another way to say “couldn’t distinguish between a risk and a good play at game speed”.  If he knew what he was doing and could just dial his Risk-O-Meter down when he came back from suspension in 2018, got put back in the starter’s role over Fitz, and a few games later proceeded to throw 4 picks, get sacked 5 times and get benched for Fitz.  I’m sure Koetter had a few choice words for him.  And he CERTAINLY would have dialed it back in 2019 after his 5 pick, 7 sack game.  Instead he went on to throw two more 4 INT games.  Don’t you think Arians tried arse-kicking?  

 

Oh while we’re at it, let’s talk about sacks.  Some pundits consider sacks to be as bad as INTs in that they often result in a COP and can switch the field.  Winston took 47 sacks that cost his team 282 yards in 2019. Tons of sacks are also often a sign of poor QB judgement: the QB either doesn’t recognize the blitz and adjust the protections, or doesn’t know where his “Answers” are, or they’re coverage sacks where he shows poor judgement and hangs onto the ball too long.

 

No, a starting QB who has shown the same sack-taking INT-making proclivities into his 5th season can not be considered a dude who can “diagnose a defense perfectly” and just needs a little boot in the butt.

 

 

What, if anything, did they do to shore up their abysmal OL?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cincyjungle.com/platform/amp/2021/6/12/22528520/bengals-offensive-line-higher-than-expected-in-updated-rankings

Some action taken, but they’ve probably just moved from abysmal to the below average/poor range. 

 

I'm persuaded that below some threshold, no QB can play behind an OL

Above a certain threshold, a QB who is skilled at reading the defense, knowing where his "hot read" is, and having some ability to escape can function, but a young uncertain QB will still flounder.

 

I developed this theory when the Bills 2010 OL magically improved from "non functional sieve" to "poor, but functional" after Fitz took over from Trent Edwards.

 

I have the impression that Burrows is pretty good at reading the D and understanding what his options are, so I hope the Bengals improvement moves into the "poor, but functional" range for him.

 

11 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

I would say that it's a fun offense to play in for a QB....not so much QB friendly.  Arians demands alot of long downfield passing.  Even Brady was stuggling until he convinced Arians to run more of the shorter stuff Brady prefers.

 

This is probably a fair correction albeit at the beginning of the season, Brady did not appear to have the arm left to make those deep throws.   Somehow his armstrength seems to have improved as the season went on 🤷‍♂️

 

But perhaps the improvement was that he could make them 4-5 times per game but not 20

[BigAl2526]

6 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I'm not sure where to put this but it occurs to me the Bills might be able to trade a couple of bubble players for draft picks this offseason.  Specifically, I'm thinking a guy like Daryl Johnson who can play STs and is a decent backup pass rusher might fetch a 5th or 6th from a team like Seattle, and perhaps Horrible Harry could be dealt as well.

If you trade Horrible Harry, who will your second 1 tech be?  Butler, Zimmer and Oliver are all 3 tech.  Brandin Bryant and Treyvon Hestor are probably 3 techs as well.  As 1 techs, you're down to Star Lotulelei and Eli Ankou.  I haven't heard a lot about Ankou.  If he turns out not to be good enough, you'll be left with Oliver and/or Butler playing out of position again.  That didn't work out so well last season.