Jimmy Johnson Halftime Adjustment Against the Bills in SB XXVIII

[US Egg]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

Over a quarter-century later and everyone here is like “TOO SOON!!! 🤬”

 

Gotta love Bills fans.

Never is preferred. 😖

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, transient said:

I don't think this makes the point you think it does. Don Shula, during Levy's tenure with the Bills, won a total of 3 playoff games and had a total of 3 double digit winning seasons... Miami was basically a 0.500 team with Shula at the helm despite a HOF QB behind center over the time Marv coached the Bills.  It's not like he was going head to head against him in the 70s when the legend of Don Shula was cemented.

Kinda my point—Shula (winningest coach in NFL history at the time of his passing) had a 29-3 WL record against Buffalo through 1985. Once Marv came onboard, that turned to the tune of 14-6 for the Bills, and overall Marv has a 20-6 record against the Don. That’s too much to be a statistical outlier imho, and also, those same middling numbers given for Miami in terms of playoffs over that span—how many of those years was Miami snuffed out by Buffalo in the playoffs? 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/04/buffalo-bills-history-miami-dolphins-don-shula-marv-levy/

 

[transient]

45 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Kinda my point—Shula (winningest coach in NFL history at the time of his passing) had a 29-3 WL record against Buffalo through 1985. Once Marv came onboard, that turned to the tune of 14-6 for the Bills, and overall Marv has a 20-6 record against the Don. That’s too much to be a statistical outlier imho, and also, those same middling numbers given for Miami in terms of playoffs over that span—how many of those years was Miami snuffed out by Buffalo in the playoffs? 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/04/buffalo-bills-history-miami-dolphins-don-shula-marv-levy/

 

My point was Shula wasn't the same coach, and the Dolphins weren't the same team, after 1985. The most succinct way I can summarize it is to say from 1970-1985 his winning percentage with Miami was 0.727 and he made the playoffs in 12 of 16 seasons, with two of the seasons that he missed still being 10 win seasons; from 1986-1995 his winning percentage was 0.559 and he only made the playoffs 4 times despite having a HOF QB. The Bills rise certainly contributed to some of the losses, but it was not the same team as the one in the 70s and early 80s, and the numbers against the league as a whole, not just the Bills, bear that out.

[Solomon Grundy]

8 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

Marv was a hall of fame leader and motivator but unfortunately an average game day coach. 

Shouldn’t a leader change course when it reaches a roadblock?

8 hours ago, transient said:

Parcells, Gibbs and Johnson were all big game coaches. Marv... not so much. He can credit his HOF talent for getting him into the HOF, cuz it wasn't his coaching.

His motto of “execution” used to annoy me. If someone knew what my next move was, execution of my move would be moot

[corta765]

10 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Atlanta lost because they refused to run the ball. Had they done that, they would have won.

watching that game it really was stunning. Like sitting on the couch you literally said just run the ball…. And the Atlanta kept trying to pass. It was mind blowing to the max

[Just Jack]

What I got most from that blurb, was that there was only 1 week between the conference championship and the SB.  I did not remember that, I thought 91 was the only year they did that. 

[Ray Stonada]

I was at this game. Only Super Bowl I attended. My dad and I were 100% positive we would win it.

 

It was one of the worst feelings of my life, the second half. I understand Thurman freezing, after four years, it was just too much psychological pressure. You could feel it in the stadium. Just terrible luck on the fumbles, it's not like the guy fumbled much.

 

WE SHOULD HAVE WON THAT GAME.

 

Dammit. The years haven't solved it for me!

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

15 hours ago, transient said:

The AFC was a weak sister during his time. Someone from the conference had to make it. That roster was dripping with HOF talent and he underacheived with it due to stubbornness and hubris. "Read and react" was a complete waste of that defense under Walt Corey, and you have to give the opposing SB team some respect and not think you can just "out execute" a similarly talented team and win. That's a coaching problem.

That’s a mistaken notion as I watched like everyone else 30 for 30,

amd Polish referenced we had a winning record against NFC teams during in those years so I looked it up a couple of years ago.  
 

The Giants was simply bad coaching, but we were simply outmatched against the WFT and cowgirls.  If we ran the ball down the Giants throat,  BB would’ve had to adjust and not play 8 back.  Then our passing game would’ve been more effective.

 

Note to TBD friends, can we just forget about those painful losses.  I hate reading this every so often.  What makes it all go away is winning this year.

[vincec]

I think people are underestimating how good that Dallas team was. They were easily the best of the teams the Bills faced in the Super Bowls and had just beaten the Bills 52-17 in the Super Bowl the previous year. I mean figuring out how to run the ball with your HOF running back behind your pro-bowl FB and the best OL in the NFL at the time isn't exactly an act of genius.

[Bill from NYC]

20 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

 

Walt Corey was badly outcoached in every one.  And yet Marv stuck with him.  That's on Marv, much as I love him.

Marv was also outcoached. Big time.

[Gordio]

21 hours ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Halftime at the Super Bowl is way too long.  During regular season and playoffs, it's about 12 minutes.  Teams have more time than ever to make adjustments.  And if you're ahead, why make adjustments?  Look what happened to Atlanta when they were killing New England.  They were so far ahead they didn't need any adjustments.  Mean time, New England changed everything and won the game.

 

 

Good points, but that NE/ATL super bowl, was not won on halftime adjustments, it was won because had the worst clock management I have ever seen in a post season game.  There were 2 or three drives at the end where all they had to do was run the ball and the game was over and they continued to chuck it around the field.  Simply baffling.

[atlbillsfan1975]

21 hours ago, Last Guy on the Bench said:

 

 

 

Ha ha. Sorry. Guess those few decades haven't been such a balm to everyone.

Nope, In particular for the guys sitting there in the stadium

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Thanks for the sharp stick in the eye 😂

[Stevie Ray]

10 hours ago, corta765 said:

watching that game it really was stunning. Like sitting on the couch you literally said just run the ball…. And the Atlanta kept trying to pass. It was mind blowing to the max

And even more mind blowing was when they were passing, they didn't even run the snap count down to 1 or 2. They snapped just a few seconds after getting set, giving Brady more time, which he obviously took advantage of. How could they not know this? Unbelievable. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Thank God I was like 2 when this happened. 

[transient]

7 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

That’s a mistaken notion as I watched like everyone else 30 for 30,

amd Polish referenced we had a winning record against NFC teams during in those years so I looked it up a couple of years ago.  
 

The Giants was simply bad coaching, but we were simply outmatched against the WFT and cowgirls.  If we ran the ball down the Giants throat,  BB would’ve had to adjust and not play 8 back.  Then our passing game would’ve been more effective.

 

Note to TBD friends, can we just forget about those painful losses.  I hate reading this every so often.  What makes it all go away is winning this year.

So I guess I imagined that the NFC won 16 of 20 SBs in the 80s and 90s, including a run of 13 straight. And I suppose despite the lopsided scores and embarrassing performances in many of them, the AFC representative weren’t actually outclassed by a wide margin in many of those games. Because of this disparity there was a long stretch where the talking heads referred to the NFC Conference Championship as the “true super bowl”. 

[machine gun kelly]

30 minutes ago, transient said:

So I guess I imagined that the NFC won 16 of 20 SBs in the 80s and 90s, including a run of 13 straight. And I suppose despite the lopsided scores and embarrassing performances in many of them, the AFC representative weren’t actually outclassed by a wide margin in many of those games. Because of this disparity there was a long stretch where the talking heads referred to the NFC Conference Championship as the “true super bowl”. 

I did say the Bills had a winning record against NFC teams during their playoff run.  I didn’t say the AFC dominated the SB rings, but then again you can say the exact opposite about the 70’s.

 

The interesting point whenever you speak with an NFC team fan, they always think the NFC has won more SB’s than the AFC, but in reality the NFC only as of 2021 were 1 championship up on the AFC as if the Bucs win.  Prior to that it was tied when the Chiefs won the previous year.

 

It doesn’t really matter.  Hopefully we win in 2022 and can tie it up again.

[just1hugheser]

I F'ing LOVED those golden years teams(88-99), I was especially awed by the Front Office/Polian and how they were able to amass so much talent, also was inspired by how close those players became with each other after some initial adversity which points toward efficient and smart leadership and management(captains and coaches). 

 

When I looked back some years later the thing that really I still have trouble reconciling is how poorly those teams/coaches were at the X's and O's of the game, superb leadership, good time management, good organization, middling to poor at scheming and counter scheming.

 

1990 Bills- HC> Marv Levy  DC> Walt Corey  OC> Ted Marchibroda

 

         nyg- HC> Bill Parcells  DC> Bill Belichek  OC> Ron Erhardt (also Ray Handley, Charlie Weis, Al Groh, Tom Coughlin, Romeo Crennel)

 

-anyone who argues they weren't out coached by a mile in this game is just not facing reality, easily the worst of the 4 especially with the talent differential

 

The next year they get a Charlie Casserly built Redskins led by Joe Gibbs whose staff was not nearly as loaded as the giants and who were more on par with the Bills staff, I actually thought the refs had a huge affect on this game when I re-watched it years later but I'd also say Marv and them got out gameplanned in this one too though not as bad.  Really that Redskins teams hammered everyone that year, their only close games were against two good ass teams in the Bengals and Cowboys.

 

Then of course the two vs dallas both times we looked like we were tired of going and afraid to lose again especially in the 4th where they had a lead at halftime but still looked and acted like they had already lost then they don't even try and counter dallas halftime adjustments i meam c'mon tim tim

 

For the record  1992/3 cowboys- HC> Jim Johnson  DC> Dave Wannestedt/Butch Davis  OC> Norv Turner  (dave campo, jim eddy, cant seem to find any other position coaches).

 

Coaching matters a lot, a lot a lot      

[BigDingus]

On 7/27/2021 at 10:46 AM, transient said:

The AFC was a weak sister during his time. Someone from the conference had to make it. That roster was dripping with HOF talent and he underacheived with it due to stubbornness and hubris. "Read and react" was a complete waste of that defense under Walt Corey, and you have to give the opposing SB team some respect and not think you can just "out execute" a similarly talented team and win. That's a coaching problem.

 

Same conference with Dan Marino, John Elway & even Joe Montana at one point? I wouldn't really call it weak, just some bad matchups & poor execution/coaching on game day (we often beat those very same teams during the regular season, so it's not like they couldn't do it).

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

On 7/27/2021 at 11:13 AM, GaryPinC said:

 

Walt Corey was badly outcoached in every one.  And yet Marv stuck with him.  That's on Marv, much as I love him.

I have been a Bill's fan for years. If  only Ted Washington,was in the middle next to Bruce in those Super Bowls we would have trashed the Giants, Red skins, and at least 1 ounce to the cowboys. 263 Pound Jeff Wright, and swizzle sticks Walt Corey, cost us but also having a stingy owner like Ralph not wanting to pay players really hurt a team that could have been a dynasty.